Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Omegabronic said:

just finish compiling the feats, then we can separate later......it is simpler this way

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RedReaper616 said:

The separation but is easy. The issue is fighting my brain to remember any skill feats that occur within Z.

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

It took a supercomputer 20 years to properly copy and analyze and implant all the skills of Goku into another life form. ******* crazy

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Ednaxel2 said:

I mean there's this, but it can also be interpreted as relating to physical stats or simply being (say it with me now) hyperbolic

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Ryzen7900X said:

lol, he literally verbatim said that the only reason he didnt want DB to get past 2-C was to keep it below saint seiya. like, there was a literal screenshot of him saying that in a VS thread. and he was a mod, yeah

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Matthew_Schroeder said:

If I said it then post the screenshot instead of conspiracy posting

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Matthew_Schroeder said:

If I said it then post the screenshot instead of conspiracy posting

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Ryzen7900X said:

it was posted here, somewhere in this thread in fact too. though i'm not gonna waste my time and search for it to prove your own record to you lol. you know what you did, almost everyone old enough does. so its no conspiracy, no idea what you're talkin about

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Matthew_Schroeder said:

I don't actually lmao. Unlike people who care about Vsbattles I actually have a life so I don't get caught up in 5-year old drama about which anime dad beats which anime dad.

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Ryzen7900X said:

so that's the mechanism you've developed to just sweep under the rug whatever you did lmao. great, hope the Sera.EX stuff got the same treatment too cuz....yikes Matt

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LephyrTheRevanchist said:

Drop it.

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• Average generally. Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Although he lacks knowledge when it comes to things that aren't related to fighting, Goku is a master of prodigal skill when it comes to martial arts, with years of experience fighting against powerful opponents with a plethora of abilities. As a child, he was able to beat martial artists on such a level as Grandpa Gohan, who was stated to be an unparalleled master in all martial arts on Earth, with martial arts in Dragon Ball exceeding real life towards Dan/Level 30 where there is only 10, is skilled in the fighting style of the Kamesennin Ryu and Demon Clan's Martial Arts. In his battle with Master Roshi, was able to copy and improve upon a technique on sight, later in that same battle once faced against the Sui-Ken, a martial art he couldn't copy because he had never experienced inebriation, Goku generated and created his own style known as the "Crazy Fist" in response to perfectly counter it off the top of his head, with these styles even specifically noted to be a variation of Kenpo. At this point should be so skilled he's beyond 22nd World Tournament Roshi and Tien, the former of which having such mastery his movements, energy, and breathing have no ineffiency, and the latter being able to detect this merely via observation of scant attacks whilst his future foe was suppressed. Learned predictive movements and enemy reading in merely three days and was able to immediately apply it in combat. His skill when it comes to combat and the usage of Ki allows him to replicate other Ki-based techniques after seeing them once, and learned the training of the mind within a day, which takes battles that are dead even in all physical abilities, except stamina, which was above Goku's, as well as all techniques go from even to utter defeats of the enemy. Eventually learned to make absolutely zero unnecessary movements, which is shown by creating absolutely no sound from bells that react to the tiniest movement. Honed his mind, body, and spirit in conjunction with each other for his martial arts. As a Saiyan, he has a natural sense for battle and adapts to it quickly. Goku is capable of seeing the holes, flaws, and errors in techniques and fighters after seeing or hearing of them, such as when he took advantage of the weaknesses within the Multiform Technique after experiencing a single beatdown.)

• Average Generally, Extraordianry Genius in Combat (Is more skilled than even before. Should be more skilled than and effective at copying than Vegeta, who was able to replicate the Energy Sensory of the Z-Fighters by merely battling them, and their methods aren't detectable by any known conventional means. He is a genius in combat and is capable of devising new applications of his techniques on the fly, such as using Kamehameha with his feet, and Goku's training with King Kai was directly noted to be worth thousands of years of his prior accomplishments, experience, and skill. Easily noted Frieza's inability to sense Ki to create openings in his defenses and capitalized on it. Should be more skilled than Piccolo, who regularly utilizes perfect copies of himself to train with to hone all of his capabilities to their utmost extent. Likely is capable of Image Training via superiority in combat knowledge to Gohan and Krillin, allowing him to run simulations in and adapt to combat easily before he even faces a foe, honing himself even further. Mastered the Kaioken, a technique that requires mastery of Ki and skill to an extent that not even the originator of the technique, King Kai, can actually wield it.)

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than before. He was the first to realize how much energy the Super Saiyan transformations unnecessarily drained and despite the drawback was the first to master the Super Saiyan state, making it highly efficient and subsidizing the need to reach a higher grade, which decreases speed as a side effect. He as able to go toe to toe with Cell, a being created by the genius scientist Dr. Gero to be the ultimate warrior, taking the DNA and footage of every fighter on Earth and on Namek, copying their techniques, their mannerisms, and their skills to create him, including Goku himself, also having knowledge on how he approaches battle as well, down to real-time strategy, something that despite using an advanced supercomputer capable of creating machines that can destroy planets and stars, still took 20 years. Cell was even noted by others to perfect the martial arts and techniques of those who comprised him such as Tien's Multiform Technique, removing their flaws, and yet Goku was able to face four copies of Cell whilst their physical ability was identical off of his own raw battle intelligence and skill. Like before, is capable of seeing flaws in techniques, like how he noticed Hachiyack's sudden weakness at the 15 second mark of his Revenger Cannon Attack or Cell's perfected combat to lure and lead the four fighters into a means of which he can defeat all at once. Fought and was superior to Android 13 in combat, who had all of Goku's combat data, allowing him perfectly predict and counter every move Goku made and only lost due to Android 13's power boost.)

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than even before. Invented a new form of Super Saiyan in Otherworld, though it was reliant on the circumstances within it to be useful. Noticed the gap in the Thunder Flash and exploited it to take advantage of an opening and Hirudegarn's weakness of momentary loss of intangibility at the moment of attack. Was able to combine Super Saiyan and Kaioken soon after his death simply by growing in combat via watching other participants battle. Was capable of learning the Fusion Technique from old Metamorans, but was unable to Fuse with anyone due to being the most powerful and best fighter within Otherworld. Created a new move that completely crosses the gap in power between his forms known as the Super Dragon Fist. Fought Buu, who copies moves and fighting abilities on sight, and was still able to compete without too much hassle. Could fight momentarily fight foes vastly superior to him like Janemba. Briefly outmatched a perfect duplicate of Ultimate Gohan whilst being physically comparable to him, though was eventually put on the backfoot due to the copy's ability to continuously get back up as they were a Thought-Form. Became the strongest and most skilled fighter across the Z-Fighters and planet by the film Wrath of the Dragon.)
  
  How does this look?

RedReaper616 said:

OG DB:

• Average generally. Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Although he lacks knowledge when it comes to things that aren't related to fighting, Goku is a master of prodigal skill when it comes to martial arts, with years of experience fighting against powerful opponents with a plethora of abilities. As a child, he was able to beat martial artists on such a level as Grandpa Gohan, who was stated to be an unparalleled master in all martial arts on Earth, with martial arts in Dragon Ball exceeding real life towards Dan/Level 30 where there is only 10, is skilled in the fighting style of the Kamesennin Ryu and Demon Clan's Martial Arts. In his battle with Master Roshi, was able to copy and improve upon a technique on sight, later in that same battle once faced against the Sui-Ken, a martial art he couldn't copy because he had never experienced inebriation, Goku generated and created his own style known as the "Crazy Fist" in response to perfectly counter it off the top of his head, with these styles even specifically noted to be a variation of Kenpo. At this point should be so skilled he's beyond 22nd World Tournament Roshi and Tien, the former of which having such mastery his movements, energy, and breathing have no ineffiency, and the latter being able to detect this merely via observation of scant attacks whilst his future foe was suppressed. Learned predictive movements and enemy reading in merely three days and was able to immediately apply it in combat. His skill when it comes to combat and the usage of Ki allows him to replicate other Ki-based techniques after seeing them once, and learned the training of the mind within a day, which takes battles that are dead even in all physical abilities, except stamina, which was above Goku's, as well as all techniques go from even to utter defeats of the enemy. Eventually learned to make absolutely zero unnecessary movements, which is shown by creating absolutely no sound from bells that react to the tiniest movement. Honed his mind, body, and spirit in conjunction with each other for his martial arts. As a Saiyan, he has a natural sense for battle and adapts to it quickly. Goku is capable of seeing the holes, flaws, and errors in techniques and fighters after seeing or hearing of them, such as when he took advantage of the weaknesses within the Multiform Technique after experiencing a single beatdown.)

"Z-Early":

• Average Generally, Extraordianry Genius in Combat (Is more skilled than even before. Should be more skilled than and effective at copying than Vegeta, who was able to replicate the Energy Sensory of the Z-Fighters by merely battling them, and their methods aren't detectable by any known conventional means. He was the first to realize how much energy the Super Saiyan transformations unnecessarily drained and despite the drawback was the first to master the Super Saiyan state, making it highly efficient and subsidizing the need to reach a higher grade, which decreases speed as a side effect. He is a genius in combat and is capable of devising new applications of his techniques on the fly, such as using Kamehameha with his feet, and Goku's training with King Kai was directly noted to be worth thousands of years of his prior accomplishments, experience, and skill. Easily noted Frieza's inability to sense Ki to create openings in his defenses and capitalized on it. Should be more skilled than Piccolo, who regularly utilizes perfect copies of himself to train with to hone all of his capabilities to their utmost extent. Likely is capable of Image Training via superiority in combat knowledge to Gohan and Krillin, allowing him to run simulations in and adapt to combat easily before he even faces a foe, honing himself even further. Mastered the Kaioken, a technique that requires mastery of Ki and skill to an extent that not even the originator of the technique, King Kai, can actually wield it.)

"Z-Mid":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than before. He was the first to realize how much energy the Super Saiyan transformations unnecessarily drained and despite the drawback was the first to master the Super Saiyan state, making it highly efficient and subsidizing the need to reach a higher grade, which decreases speed as a side effect. He as able to go toe to toe with Cell, a being created by the genius scientist Dr. Gero to be the ultimate warrior, taking the DNA and footage of every fighter on Earth and on Namek, copying their techniques, their mannerisms, and their skills to create him, including Goku himself, also having knowledge on how he approaches battle as well, down to real-time strategy, something that despite using an advanced supercomputer capable of creating machines that can destroy planets and stars, still took 20 years. Cell was even noted by others to perfect the martial arts and techniques of those who comprised him such as Tien's Multiform Technique, removing their flaws, and yet Goku was able to face four copies of Cell whilst their physical ability was identical off of his own raw battle intelligence and skill. Like before, is capable of seeing flaws in techniques, like how he noticed Hachiyack's sudden weakness at the 15 second mark of his Revenger Cannon Attack or Cell's perfected combat to lure and lead the four fighters into a means of which he can defeat all at once. Fought and was superior to Android 13 in combat, who had all of Goku's combat data, allowing him perfectly predict and counter every move Goku made and only lost due to Android 13's power boost.)

"Z-End":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than even before. Invented a new form of Super Saiyan in Otherworld, though it was reliant on the cirucmstances within it to be useful. Noticed the gap in the Thunder Flash and exploited it to take advantage of an opening and Hirudegarn's weakness of momentary loss of intangibility at the moment of attack. Was able to combine Super Saiyan and Kaioken soon after his death simply by growing in combat via watching other participants battle. Was capable of learning the Fusion Technique from old Metamorans, but was unable to Fuse with anyone due to being the most powerful and best fighter within Otherworld. Created a new move that completely crosses the gap in power between his forms known as the Super Dragon Fist. Fought Buu, who copies moves and fighting abilities on sight, and was still able to compete without too much hassle. Could fight momentarily fight foes vastly superior to him like Janemba. Briefly outmatched a perfect duplicate of Ultimate Gohan whilst being physically comparable to him, though was eventually put on the backfoot due to the copy's ability to continuously get back up as they were a Thought-Form. Became the strongest and most skilled fighter across the Z-Fighters and planet by the film Wrath of the Dragon.)
  
  How does this look?

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Spinoirr said:

Or you could do what I did, put it all in a scroll box

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RedReaper616 said:

OG DB:

• Average generally. Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Although he lacks knowledge when it comes to things that aren't related to fighting, Goku is a master of prodigal skill when it comes to martial arts, with years of experience fighting against powerful opponents with a plethora of abilities. As a child, he was able to beat martial artists on such a level as Grandpa Gohan, who was stated to be an unparalleled master in all martial arts on Earth, with martial arts in Dragon Ball exceeding real life towards Dan/Level 30 where there is only 10, is skilled in the fighting style of the Kamesennin Ryu and Demon Clan's Martial Arts. In his battle with Master Roshi, was able to copy and improve upon a technique on sight, later in that same battle once faced against the Sui-Ken, a martial art he couldn't copy because he had never experienced inebriation, Goku generated and created his own style known as the "Crazy Fist" in response to perfectly counter it off the top of his head, with these styles even specifically noted to be a variation of Kenpo. At this point should be so skilled he's beyond 22nd World Tournament Roshi and Tien, the former of which having such mastery his movements, energy, and breathing have no ineffiency, and the latter being able to detect this merely via observation of scant attacks whilst his future foe was suppressed. Learned predictive movements and enemy reading in merely three days and was able to immediately apply it in combat. His skill when it comes to combat and the usage of Ki allows him to replicate other Ki-based techniques after seeing them once, and learned the training of the mind within a day, which takes battles that are dead even in all physical abilities, except stamina, which was above Goku's, as well as all techniques go from even to utter defeats of the enemy. Eventually learned to make absolutely zero unnecessary movements, which is shown by creating absolutely no sound from bells that react to the tiniest movement. Honed his mind, body, and spirit in conjunction with each other for his martial arts. As a Saiyan, he has a natural sense for battle and adapts to it quickly. Goku is capable of seeing the holes, flaws, and errors in techniques and fighters after seeing or hearing of them, such as when he took advantage of the weaknesses within the Multiform Technique after experiencing a single beatdown.)

"Z-Early":

• Average Generally, Extraordianry Genius in Combat (Is more skilled than even before. Should be more skilled than and effective at copying than Vegeta, who was able to replicate the Energy Sensory of the Z-Fighters by merely battling them, and their methods aren't detectable by any known conventional means. He is a genius in combat and is capable of devising new applications of his techniques on the fly, such as using Kamehameha with his feet, and Goku's training with King Kai was directly noted to be worth thousands of years of his prior accomplishments, experience, and skill. Easily noted Frieza's inability to sense Ki to create openings in his defenses and capitalized on it. Should be more skilled than Piccolo, who regularly utilizes perfect copies of himself to train with to hone all of his capabilities to their utmost extent. Likely is capable of Image Training via superiority in combat knowledge to Gohan and Krillin, allowing him to run simulations in and adapt to combat easily before he even faces a foe, honing himself even further. Mastered the Kaioken, a technique that requires mastery of Ki and skill to an extent that not even the originator of the technique, King Kai, can actually wield it.)

"Z-Mid":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than before. He was the first to realize how much energy the Super Saiyan transformations unnecessarily drained and despite the drawback was the first to master the Super Saiyan state, making it highly efficient and subsidizing the need to reach a higher grade, which decreases speed as a side effect. He as able to go toe to toe with Cell, a being created by the genius scientist Dr. Gero to be the ultimate warrior, taking the DNA and footage of every fighter on Earth and on Namek, copying their techniques, their mannerisms, and their skills to create him, including Goku himself, also having knowledge on how he approaches battle as well, down to real-time strategy, something that despite using an advanced supercomputer capable of creating machines that can destroy planets and stars, still took 20 years. Cell was even noted by others to perfect the martial arts and techniques of those who comprised him such as Tien's Multiform Technique, removing their flaws, and yet Goku was able to face four copies of Cell whilst their physical ability was identical off of his own raw battle intelligence and skill. Like before, is capable of seeing flaws in techniques, like how he noticed Hachiyack's sudden weakness at the 15 second mark of his Revenger Cannon Attack or Cell's perfected combat to lure and lead the four fighters into a means of which he can defeat all at once. Fought and was superior to Android 13 in combat, who had all of Goku's combat data, allowing him perfectly predict and counter every move Goku made and only lost due to Android 13's power boost.)

"Z-End":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than even before. Invented a new form of Super Saiyan in Otherworld, though it was reliant on the circumstances within it to be useful. Noticed the gap in the Thunder Flash and exploited it to take advantage of an opening and Hirudegarn's weakness of momentary loss of intangibility at the moment of attack. Was able to combine Super Saiyan and Kaioken soon after his death simply by growing in combat via watching other participants battle. Was capable of learning the Fusion Technique from old Metamorans, but was unable to Fuse with anyone due to being the most powerful and best fighter within Otherworld. Created a new move that completely crosses the gap in power between his forms known as the Super Dragon Fist. Fought Buu, who copies moves and fighting abilities on sight, and was still able to compete without too much hassle. Could fight momentarily fight foes vastly superior to him like Janemba. Briefly outmatched a perfect duplicate of Ultimate Gohan whilst being physically comparable to him, though was eventually put on the backfoot due to the copy's ability to continuously get back up as they were a Thought-Form. Became the strongest and most skilled fighter across the Z-Fighters and planet by the film Wrath of the Dragon.)
  
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LuffyRuffy46307 said:

It turned out good, are you going to make a huge crt for Dragon Ball Toei to add all this stuff?

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RedReaper616 said:

Probably. Trying to get all the Toei Stuff in order. GT Goku's Profile, now the Z-Goku profiles (alongside Ednaxel), my mini-blog for the verse page, etc. Really I'm just kind of overhauling the main stuff because in comparison to the canon stuff their profiles are very subpar.

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Ednaxel2 said:

I mean there's this, but it can also be interpreted as relating to physical stats or simply being (say it with me now) hyperbolic

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RedReaper616 said:

"Z-Mid":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than before. He was the first to realize how much energy the Super Saiyan transformations unnecessarily drained and despite the drawback was the first to master the Super Saiyan state, making it highly efficient and subsidizing the need to reach a higher grade, which decreases speed as a side effect. He as able to go toe to toe with Cell, a being created by the genius scientist Dr. Gero to be the ultimate warrior, taking the DNA and footage of every fighter on Earth and on Namek, copying their techniques, their mannerisms, and their skills to create him, including Goku himself, also having knowledge on how he approaches battle as well, down to real-time strategy, something that despite using an advanced supercomputer capable of creating machines that can destroy planets and stars, still took 20 years.

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RedReaper616 said:

• Cell was even noted by others to perfect the martial arts and techniques of those who comprised him such as Tien's Multiform Technique, removing their flaws, and yet Goku was able to face four copies of Cell whilst their physical ability was identical off of his own raw battle intelligence and skill. Like before, is capable of seeing flaws in techniques, like how he noticed Hachiyack's sudden weakness at the 15 second mark of his Revenger Cannon Attack or Cell's perfected combat to lure and lead the four fighters into a means of which he can defeat all at once. Fought and was superior to Android 13 in combat, who had all of Goku's combat data, allowing him perfectly predict and counter every move Goku made and only lost due to Android 13's power boost.)

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RedReaper616 said:

"Z-End":

• Average Generally, Extraordinary Genius in Combat (Is even more skilled than even before. Invented a new form of Super Saiyan in Otherworld, though it was reliant on the circumstances within it to be useful. Noticed the gap in the Thunder Flash and exploited it to take advantage of an opening and Hirudegarn's weakness of momentary loss of intangibility at the moment of attack. Was able to combine Super Saiyan and Kaioken soon after his death simply by growing in combat via watching other participants battle. Was capable of learning the Fusion Technique from old Metamorans, but was unable to Fuse with anyone due to being the most powerful and best fighter within Otherworld.

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RedReaper616 said:

I mean that'd work for later iterations, but we're separating the skill boxes by the time they actually demonstrate those skill feats. Kid Goku isn't exactly as skilled as his older self who regularly fights perfect "Anti-Goku" fighters.

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Omegabronic said:

that part, about it "being capable of creating star destroying machines" doesn't really matter much here, creating purely destructive weapons is a thing, analising a fighting style is completely different one, one is not inferior or superior, not comparable at all, i would say to just remove that part and just leave that it was a Super Computer

to say tho, this can't be entirely because of skill since he would also be creating a hybrid physiology between multiple completely different races of a alien races, so while yes, still a factor, can't be written as if skill implementation was the sole reason it took that long, unless there is a statement i am missing of course



didn't he beat him by absorbing the Genki Dama and fusing it with his Super Saiyan form and overpowering it rather than with skill? i don't remember much of the Android 13 movie tho, so you might be referencing something else


this part was purely due to him being too strong and not cause of skill, it doesn't really need to be here

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

but in the 13 movie Goku was able to contend pretty evenly with 13 after going Super Saiyan. This was before Super 13 and Spirit Bomb stuff. So Goku would scale, he'd just scale evenly

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Omegabronic said:

hm, fair enough then

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

Don't you lecture me with your thirty dollar hair cut

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Omegabronic said:

that part, about it "being capable of creating star destroying machines" doesn't really matter much here, creating purely destructive weapons is a thing, analising a fighting style is completely different one, one is not inferior or superior, not comparable at all, i would say to just remove that part and just leave that it was a Super Computer

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Omegabronic said:

to say tho, this can't be entirely because of skill since he would also be creating a hybrid physiology between multiple completely different races of a alien races, so while yes, still a factor, can't be written as if skill implementation was the sole reason it took that long, unless there is a statement i am missing of course

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Omegabronic said:

didn't he beat him by absorbing the Genki Dama and fusing it with his Super Saiyan form and overpowering it rather than with skill? i don't remember much of the Android 13 movie tho, so you might be referencing something else

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Omegabronic said:

this part was purely due to him being too strong and not cause of skill, it doesn't really need to be here

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RedReaper616 said:

I mean it's pretty straightforward, no? The Androids reign terror for about two decades in Trunks' Future, which is when Cell is finally released and complete--Just after Trunks ganks them, hence why he kills Trunks and takes the Time Machine back to the past. Account for the few years it took to get that data (Saiyan Saga to Frieza and King Cold's appearance) or two to three years and you got a complete two decades. Goku's latest info according to Cell was taken from the Saiyan Saga, so nearly twenty to twenty years, and Gero had been working on Goku's data before that already, since he was making Androids to kill Goku between 8 and 16. They just sucked. So twenty years to fully complete their amalgamated combat data.

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

Im trying to remember what his relation with the supercomputer was. You had android gero, the one who turned himself into an android, and back up gero on supercomputer, correct?

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RedReaper616 said:

Yeah, Gero had his hatred within his Supercomputer working on the project (and the 3 S13 Androids) on the backburner. This computer was directly the source of the combat intelligence of the Androids and Cell. Which also is greater in the Anime Continuity, since it's working in real time to predict Goku's movements in the film.

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

I want to make sure this is air tight. Are you on the supporters discord server?

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RedReaper616 said:

Supercomputers across fiction vary in capacity and capability, so I figure holding the data capacity/capability of destroying planets, stars, solar systems, cellular alteration, hybrid creation, genetic engineering, etc. is a valid way to kind of put a marker of how much "data" it can analyze and utilize casually compared to Goku's fighting data, which took 2 decades.

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RedReaper616 said:

In the Anime the Computer contains both the DNA and martial arts data of "All Earths Masters." Frieza and Cold's DNA was only entered 3 years before that, so it was just the Saiyan info from the Saiyan Saga and the combat information of all the Z-Fighters that took years long before that moment, meaning only Human DNA except Goku.

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RedReaper616 said:

No. No one gave me the invite.

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Omegabronic said:

see, you only put the pure AP of the machines it can produce, not the other stuff it can do, so if you want to use that point......just include the feats the Computer has instead, it would be better for your point


Piccolo isn't human tho, and since this is toei continuity, it would have the DNA of other beings since, iirc, Goku also fought Demons and other beings after the defeat of the Red Ribbon Arc

Like, it is still impressive it took this long, but alongside it not being only Goku's Skill to analyse, since it would have everyone else's as well, it would also need to analyse how to properly fuse all these different DNA's, mix their powers, and making it an anatomy that would allow the inherent abilities of them all to be usable for cell, all while also implementing the evolution function he has to make himself "perfect"

all this to say is, in your wording you are implying that Goku's skill in fighting in specific is why it took so long to complete cell.....but that is likely not the case, at least, i didn't see a statement about it, Goku was 1 part of a very big and complex project, unless we have a statement saying that he was the reason it took this long, giving him all the credit is not very accurate

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Omegabronic said:

see, you only put the pure AP of the machines it can produce, not the other stuff it can do, so if you want to use that point......just include the feats the Computer has instead, it would be better for your point

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Omegabronic said:

Piccolo isn't human tho, and since this is toei continuity, it would have the DNA of other beings since, iirc, Goku also fought Demons and other beings after the defeat of the Red Ribbon Arc

Like, it is still impressive it took this long, but alongside it not being only Goku's Skill to analyse, since it would have everyone else's as well, it would also need to analyse how to properly fuse all these different DNA's, mix their powers, and making it an anatomy that would allow the inherent abilities of them all to be usable for cell, all while also implementing the evolution function he has to make himself "perfect"

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XXBenShapiroXx said:

I asked for people to hold on while I get a timeline. So far what we know of Gero's capabilities makes those things a cakewalk for him, plus there being a super computer working on the back burner while Gero himself is doing other shit.

I'm trying to get a clear timeline of Gero's activities so we can make this clear cut. Looking at other super computer justifications for other verses, they are usually wank or not well thought out in relation to combat IQ. That's why I need to figure out a timeline before we even start arguing.

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RedReaper616 said:

Fair.

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RedReaper616 said:

The issue I have is the fighting data is both from observation and LITERALLY Goku's DNA. While you're right in saying it's more than 1 person, the DNA and the naturally generated fighting data from it are ONE and the SAME.

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RedReaper616 said:

Further, it should be noted that within the context of the Anime, the Supercomputer still had to gradully work to overwhelm Goku, which is backed up in the film.

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RedReaper616 said:

They stress that the main focus was Goku's Combat Data. That said, they had data on others still.

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Omegabronic said:

i mean yeah, my point is not much "Is skill included in DNA?" and more of "There much more stuff then just skill to complete cell" and "there much more DNA then just Goku to account for, thus saying he is the main cause seems baseless without a statement about his DNA being the factor of why it took so long"

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Omegabronic said:

i mean.....duh, this Goku is much older and more experienced than the one where Gero stopped getting Data, which was at the Saiyan saga, therefore this "new"/Current Goku has Data they didn't accounted for, hence why it analyses them again to be able to counter them

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Omegabronic said:

eh.....i don't really see that in the scans you showed, mostly i see that 13 was made specifically to kill goku, so of course he would focus on Goku's data to be able to kill him, that is more cuz of the objetive that was "kill Goku" than "goku skill/data is so much more that it needs focus"

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RedReaper616 said:

I mean, Cell's physiology was complete as far as we know. He was there in his larve state in that incubator. The rest of the time was finishing and honing him, and the only stuff left we know of is the combat data.

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RedReaper616 said:

When 13 shows up he outright says they already "have all the data they need."

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RedReaper616 said:

You're missing the forest for the trees. If they're putting priority on Goku's data, then that data by necessity is being covered more compared to everyone else's.

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