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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

I don’t really see the point in trying to use real world philosophy to argue for tier 0, when philosophy adheres to the paremeters of the real world. If we lived in a world where magic was real, human philosophy’s take on omnipotence will be entirely different.
 
idk if that's true; while I think it's likely that the constraints of the real world alter which philosophical stances are most popular, I don't think it'd change which philosophical ideas exist. Outside of the potential of philosophers being more smart in other worlds.

And to a certain extent, even if there would be different philosophical ideas, that doesn't matter too much, since verses would necessarily not be based on those, making them irrelevant.
 
Ovy7 said:
Too lazy to read through the Bible that was dropped in the Tier 0 thread, so can anyone tell me what was the final stance on the Monad being Tier 0 even if their cosmology is just 3A?
Click to expand...
Sums up to the tier 0 being completely cosmology independent and any 1-A High 1-A or whatever requirements would be extremely arbitrary for something that basically views 3-A the same as absolutely any other tier.
 
Ovy7 said:
Too lazy to read through the Bible that was dropped in the Tier 0 thread, so can anyone tell me what was the final stance on the Monad being Tier 0 even if their cosmology is just 3A?
Click to expand...
Ultima: The definition of a monad isn't related to the cosmology it transcends, so it should reach Tier 0 no matter what the cosmology in the verse is.

Me: If you accept a monad as a thing you want to tier, that's a reasonable and logical consequence.
 
I'm slightly confused now, how do monads work then? What's stopping things like the mother of Existence from being boundless.

(Watch my example be a monad)
Agnaa said:
Ultima: The definition of a monad isn't related to the cosmology it transcends, so it should reach Tier 0 no matter what the cosmology in the verse is.

Me: If you accept a monad as a thing you want to tier, that's a reasonable and logical consequence.
Click to expand...
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
I'm slightly confused now, how do monads work then? What's stopping things like the mother of Existence from being boundless.

(Watch my example be a monad)
Click to expand...
It's true Omnipotence, and Omnipotent being must have that nature + limitless power (proved such that NLF can't be applied to monad's limitless power) + no rivals + and Omnipotent being is beyond everything and anything so no Hierarchies are applicable + this power can't be reached by powering up + can't be rivalled+ a monad must be "all in one and one in all" or "simplest being that can't be reduced to parts" ETC






It a complex thing but a good definition
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
What's next after this?
Click to expand...
Deciding what to do with lower tiers, such as tier 11, and the rest of tier 1.

I forget whether Ultima wanted to do that alongside drafts of the changes to the relevant information pages on the wiki or not. If so, that'd also take place in the same thread.
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
Can someone explain how inaccessible cardinals work, would they be inaccessible from the jumps between dimensions in general and with that logic wouldn’t that make it a qualitative jump?
Click to expand...
The main difference is that the inaccessible cardinal is still made up of the stuff that came before it.

We on the other hand aren't made up of any quantity of fictional layers or anything like that. There is no 1 fiction + 1 fiction + . . . = reality.

That's what makes one quantitative and one qualitative
 
Reading through Ultima's new comment on the Tier 0 thread, who qualifies for High 1A+? I can't really think of any other character that isn't Self Reference Engine.
 
Tdjwo said:
Reading through Ultima's new comment on the Tier 0 thread, who qualifies for High 1A+? I can't really think of any other character that isn't Self Reference Engine.
Click to expand...
this guy
vsbattles.fandom.com

God (Seekers into the Mystery)

God, or The Magician, as his human form was called, was the entity responsible for the creation of the multiverse in the graphic novel Seekers into the Mystery. Tier: 1-C Key: The Magician | The Primal Ocean Name: God, The Magician, The Singer, The Poet, The Projectionist Origin: Seekers into...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Maya from Seekers into Mystery. Same verse as the dude above. Probably Pralaya from DC, too, in her true form.
Click to expand...
I see. I thought God would be tier 0. But I guess I was wrong.

As for the tier 0, can you mention a few characters that you think qualifies? I'm well aware with The Presence, Divine Creator, IATIA.
 
Tdjwo said:
I see. I thought God would be tier 0. But I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
God is 0. Maya just scales to High 1-A+ by embodying his dream.

Tdjwo said:
As for the tier 0, can you mention a few characters that you think qualifies? I'm well aware with The Presence, Divine Creator, IATIA
Click to expand...
The Root, I guess. One or two characters with no profile on the wiki, too, like the White Light from Rudy Rucker's books.
 
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