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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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idk if that's true; while I think it's likely that the constraints of the real world alter which philosophical stances are most popular, I don't think it'd change which philosophical ideas exist. Outside of the potential of philosophers being more smart in other worlds.

And to a certain extent, even if there would be different philosophical ideas, that doesn't matter too much, since verses would necessarily not be based on those, making them irrelevant.
 
Ovy7 said:
Too lazy to read through the Bible that was dropped in the Tier 0 thread, so can anyone tell me what was the final stance on the Monad being Tier 0 even if their cosmology is just 3A?
Click to expand...
Sums up to the tier 0 being completely cosmology independent and any 1-A High 1-A or whatever requirements would be extremely arbitrary for something that basically views 3-A the same as absolutely any other tier.
 
Ovy7 said:
Too lazy to read through the Bible that was dropped in the Tier 0 thread, so can anyone tell me what was the final stance on the Monad being Tier 0 even if their cosmology is just 3A?
Click to expand...
Ultima: The definition of a monad isn't related to the cosmology it transcends, so it should reach Tier 0 no matter what the cosmology in the verse is.

Me: If you accept a monad as a thing you want to tier, that's a reasonable and logical consequence.
 
I'm slightly confused now, how do monads work then? What's stopping things like the mother of Existence from being boundless.

(Watch my example be a monad)
Agnaa said:
Ultima: The definition of a monad isn't related to the cosmology it transcends, so it should reach Tier 0 no matter what the cosmology in the verse is.

Me: If you accept a monad as a thing you want to tier, that's a reasonable and logical consequence.
Click to expand...
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
I'm slightly confused now, how do monads work then? What's stopping things like the mother of Existence from being boundless.

(Watch my example be a monad)
Click to expand...
It's true Omnipotence, and Omnipotent being must have that nature + limitless power (proved such that NLF can't be applied to monad's limitless power) + no rivals + and Omnipotent being is beyond everything and anything so no Hierarchies are applicable + this power can't be reached by powering up + can't be rivalled+ a monad must be "all in one and one in all" or "simplest being that can't be reduced to parts" ETC






It a complex thing but a good definition
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
What's next after this?
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Deciding what to do with lower tiers, such as tier 11, and the rest of tier 1.

I forget whether Ultima wanted to do that alongside drafts of the changes to the relevant information pages on the wiki or not. If so, that'd also take place in the same thread.
 
Lord_Farquaad69420 said:
Can someone explain how inaccessible cardinals work, would they be inaccessible from the jumps between dimensions in general and with that logic wouldn’t that make it a qualitative jump?
Click to expand...
The main difference is that the inaccessible cardinal is still made up of the stuff that came before it.

We on the other hand aren't made up of any quantity of fictional layers or anything like that. There is no 1 fiction + 1 fiction + . . . = reality.

That's what makes one quantitative and one qualitative
 
Reading through Ultima's new comment on the Tier 0 thread, who qualifies for High 1A+? I can't really think of any other character that isn't Self Reference Engine.
 
Tdjwo said:
Reading through Ultima's new comment on the Tier 0 thread, who qualifies for High 1A+? I can't really think of any other character that isn't Self Reference Engine.
Click to expand...
this guy
vsbattles.fandom.com

God (Seekers into the Mystery)

God is the central character of the graphic novel Seekers Into the Mystery, written by J.M DeMatteis. He is the ultimate reality and utmost source of all things, being the ocean of nothingness (And also of pure love) from which all of existence emanated, having been created so as to express...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Maya from Seekers into Mystery. Same verse as the dude above. Probably Pralaya from DC, too, in her true form.
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I see. I thought God would be tier 0. But I guess I was wrong.

As for the tier 0, can you mention a few characters that you think qualifies? I'm well aware with The Presence, Divine Creator, IATIA.
 
Tdjwo said:
I see. I thought God would be tier 0. But I guess I was wrong.
Click to expand...
God is 0. Maya just scales to High 1-A+ by embodying his dream.

Tdjwo said:
As for the tier 0, can you mention a few characters that you think qualifies? I'm well aware with The Presence, Divine Creator, IATIA
Click to expand...
The Root, I guess. One or two characters with no profile on the wiki, too, like the White Light from Rudy Rucker's books.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
There is a Supreme Being implied to being at the root, but regardless though, we have to actually review the evidence and context of the Nasuverse if the revisions goes through since ultimately that will implied the cosmology is Tier 0 with a existence of a Tier 0 being to begin with.

Again, I going off what has already been used in theory to begin with since it is a philosophical theory to say the least
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
There is a Supreme Being implied to being at the root, but regardless though, we have to actually review the evidence and context of the Nasuverse if the revisions goes through since ultimately that will implied the cosmology is Tier 0 with a existence of a Tier 0 being to begin with.

Again, I going off what has already been used in theory to begin with since it is a philosophical theory to say the least
Click to expand...
What are you talking about?
 
Tdjwo said:
What are you talking about?
Click to expand...
“God” has been mentioned multiple times in Fate. Hell IIRC, Solomon, Jeanne, and some important lore made mentions of “God”. I recall there was a quote that outright mentioned God being in the “Root” to say the least and it is not from a Fate series, but connected to the Nasuverse all the same.

Again, all the evidence and context is needed to prove that is the case.

Beside, Ultima didn’t address Monad as a universal concept (that has been discussed in the past by a certain few people in the metaphysics field anyway).
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
“God” has been mentioned multiple times in Fate. Hell IIRC, Solomon, Jeanne, and some important lore made mentioned of “God”. I recall there was a quote that outright mentioned God being in the “Root” to say the least and it is not from a Fate series, but connected to the Nasuverse all the same.

Again, all the evidence and context is needed to prove that is the case.
Click to expand...
I'm not going to be delving into this topic now but it looks like you misunderstood how God(s) are in the Nasuverse. The God Solomon, Jeanne and Kirei worship is the Nasuverse's version of the Judeo-Christian, Abrahamic God. He has nothing to do with the Root. And there is almost nothing we know about that God except that he gave Solomon the 10 rings.

And there is no "God" in the root. I don't know where you got that from.
HammerStrikes219 said:
Beside, Ultima didn’t address Monad as a universal concept (that has been discussed in the past by a certain few people in the metaphysics field anyway).
Click to expand...
??? So what have they been discussing for months now?
 
Tdjwo said:
I'm not going to be delving into this topic now but it looks like you misunderstood how God(s) are in the Nasuverse. The God Solomon, Jeanne and Kirei worship is the Nasuverse's version of the Judeo-Christian, Abrahamic God. He has nothing to do with the Root. And there is almost nothing we know about that God except that he gave Solomon the 10 rings.

And there is no "God" in the root. I don't know where you got that from.

??? So what have they been discussing for months now?
Click to expand...
docs.google.com

Cosmology Blog for Nasuverse

Hello as this is HammerStrikes219, formerly known as Starkiller 215. I am here to address certain issues regarding the Cosmology of the rather complicated Nasuverse due to misconceptions and differing interpretations being shown as the continuity of the Nasuverse will also been addressed. Un...
docs.google.com docs.google.com

“
do?

Aoko: Huh, I didn't say? To get revenge on me and to touch the Root. You remember that talk about the Whirl of the Root, don't you?

Soujuurou: ....Was that the source of magecraft?

Aoko: Yes, and also our final objective. The Whirl of the Root is position where all knowledge is recorded, and all things are determined. If you can look, touch, understand it, even the word "impossible" can be remade. It has many names in legends, but it's basically the position where God is.

Soujuurou: By God, you don't mean the 8 million kami?

Aoko: It's because you say things like that sometimes that makes you troublesome. I mean, there are gods in every form, but I’m talking about the big underlying assumption that decided that.”

That is the quote from a novel named Mahoutsukai No Yoru

I added it to my outdated cosmology blog back then since it did seems important to take notes related to the Root and all
 
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