• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

VS Battles Administrator
?????????
Joined
Messages
6,386
Reaction score
17,769

Profile posts Latest activity Postings About

  • Rabbit2002
    Hi Ultima, a question regarding the latest SCP CRT
    Does an infinite number of multiverses (infinite number of universes in each multiverse) qualify for higher tiers like L1C if Verse treats it to be really infinitely larger than the Single infinite multiverse as finite objects? Do the same with larger sets qualify for higher tiers? Example: Epislon zero universes will be which Tier? (note they have been treated as Truly Greater than the lower Ordinal numbers as comparison between finite objects insted normal countably infinite sets)
    View previous comments…
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Why is it just higher level 2A? I mean not that the FAQ stated that any difference in AP at 2A should be Uncountably infinite and whether this does not have to blur the boundary between Above baseline 2A and Low-1C when both are mandatory. uncountably infinite larger than 2A baseline? Why would we treat Space to contain an infinite multiverse and claim the "transcendent" structure it contains as solid L1C like Blazblue instead of these instances? Is there an explanation for this (some examples include DND and SCP)
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, to clarify: The blurb you've quoted isn't really referring to AP differences within 2-A, but AP differences in general; there is no such thing as "uncountably infinitely above baseline 2-A" in the Tiering System, because that's just what Low 1-C is, at the minimum.

    Assuming there are two layers according to the composite hierarchy, the upper layer not only considers the lower layer (containing the Low-1A cosmology) as fiction but also transcends it to the point of any comparative concept like "stronger" and " weaker "is meaningless and cannot be applied. Will this grant Higher Layer H1A?
    Click to expand...

    Not on its own, no.

    Is there a Cardinal or Ordinal number corresponding to Tier 0 or higher than the H1A baseline?
    Click to expand...
    That'd be a Mahlo Cardinal, as it currently stands. But, I suppose you could also see Tier 0 as being just a proper class defined within the framework of a set theory in which the existence of inaccessible cardinals is included as an axiom.
    Rabbit2002
    Rabbit2002
    Hi can I ask you a question if the Set of real numbers/C is not equal to Aleph 1 but instead is equal to or much greater than Aleph numbers greater than Aleph 1 like Paul Cohen's axiom. So are C number of universes L1C or L1A or even 1A+ ? If it's L1C does this devalue the other Alephs? (aka Aleph 1 universes is still 2A but much higher than baseline)
    "
    "A point of view which the author [Cohen] feels may eventually come to be accepted is that CH is obviously false. The main reason one accepts the axiom of infinity is probably that we feel it absurd to think that the process of adding only one set at a time can exhaust the entire universe. Similarly with the higher axioms of infinity. Now {\displaystyle \aleph _{1}}
    \aleph _{1}
    is the cardinality of the set of countable ordinals, and this is merely a special and the simplest way of generating a higher cardinal. The set {\displaystyle C}
    C
    [the continuum] is, in contrast, generated by a totally new and more powerful principle, namely the power set axiom. It is unreasonable to expect that any description of a larger cardinal which attempts to build up that cardinal from ideas deriving from the replacement axiom can ever reach {\displaystyle C}
    C
    .

    Thus {\displaystyle C}
    C
    is greater than {\displaystyle \aleph _{n},\aleph _{\omega },\aleph _{a}}
    \aleph_n, \aleph_\omega, \aleph_a
    , where {\displaystyle a=\aleph _{\omega }}
    a = \aleph_\omega
    , etc. This point of view regards {\displaystyle C}
    C
    as an incredibly rich set given to us by one bold new axiom, which can never be approached by any piecemeal process of construction. Perhaps later generations will see the problem more clearly and express themselves more eloquently."
    en.wikipedia.org

    Paul Cohen - Wikipedia

    en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
    Rabbit2002
    Rabbit2002
    Some additions: I'm asking this isn't just an assumption, it's related to something like SCP
    This quote has been considered L1A, but I think it could be higher due to the use of The Real Space which heavily implies is the set of real numbers and also contain uncountable infinite number of Aleph numbers (Aleph0, Aleph 1, Aleph2,...)
    "Unfortunately, the world is not dynamic. Everything's already over, I've already read it. All of this? It's just going through the motions. This is just a tiny subset of the world at large. I'd call it the 'real' word, but it's just as real as we are in here. The larger space that we're in… much larger, in fact, uncountably infinite expanses in uncountably infinite dimensions… we fill that space. And yet, here, we're discretised. Collapsed into words and nothing more, even if we're something so much greater.

    See, sometimes the infinite can be reduced to something simpler. Look here: ℵ0 and ℵ1 and ℵ2 and so on. Simple, yes, but they can each contain the world. You can glimpse it, if you look hard enough. Just breathe in, breathe out. Think about infinity. Not just countable, but uncountable, and the dimension of it goes up into uncountability too. If you think you've really understood it, you aren't thinking hard enough. Sure, zoom past the pitstops. 5, 23, 3333. They're all beautiful, but so horrendously finite. Fly past it all and keep going and going. Minds have died wishing for a fraction of what I can see. So breathe slowly, and think about it.

    Really think about it, and the world seems like nothing.

    I hope you've been paying attention."
    Teezar
    Hey ultima.
    They are statements of parallel worlds and infinite dimensions in a verse/boundless dimensions was also stated.
    And time again the verse is stated to have an infinity of dimensions.
    The writer of this stated all universe have infinite higher dimensions.
    Another time,its stated as infinity of dimensions...worlds beyond ...worlds beyond worlds.
    Another scan says they are innumerable dimensions in the universe.
    Which the writer says are higher dimensions.

    Another scan says all things are layered on themselves endlessly,and perception twist around it's own axis until it is blinded by .fullness,crippled by infinite repetition.

    the context of the bold ones depends on the context once you see the scans.

    Sorry about my bad English tho.

    But I want you to help me scale this cosmology please.
    Gohanblanco217
    Hey Ultima I heard that Higher layers of existence are infinitely higher then the Lower layers of existence based on higher infinites from set theory right? Tho I still don't understand isn't this basically the same thing as Infinite x infinite = infinite (aleph null)? Like how does it increase your Cardinality exactly? Can you give me a full explanation?
    Rabbit2002
    Hello Ultima, a question

    If a universe is declared a Higher dimension (regardless of whether it refers directly to a actually higher dimension of space, I mean a Higher Plane of existence, not a metaphor or a Flowery language for something like advanced. tech or similar) to explain the role it serves as the "interdimensional highway" which allows access to all universes of the lower dimension that threaten all existence, while also containing those universes (countless possibly infinite) in the form of much smaller finite objects like ordinary planets and trivialize it to the extent that it can be destroyed from there like normal planets instead of special pocket universes or similiar , besides it is even inaccessible by people who can access everywhere of space and time, including coutless possibly infinite universes and everywhere of it, then they are even reach further on "dimensions beyond their grasp before" and The place/realm transcendent and separate from space and time
    Would that Universe qualify for Low-1C, and the "dimensions beyond their grasp" I mentioned too?
    TheQuirkyBoy
    Howdy there! Sorry if I’m disturbing you at this hour. I’m sure you are busy currently, but when you have the chance, could you check out this CRT? Your input will prove to be most beneficial to the entire thing, thank you now!
    Amakasu
    Hey, I know dc is one of you Verses, so those Dimensions Rama Kushna talked about right? Are those spatial dimensions?
    ThePirateKing777
    Hello Ultima! Great work on the Cthulhu Mythos revisions but I have a couple concerns.

    So is the family tree still relevant? The one a Lovecraft drew up charting his and fellow writer Clark Ashton Smith's (a friend of his who jokingly claimed descent from Jupiter) shared descent from Azathoth, through Lovecraft's creation Nyarlathotep and Clark-Smith's Tsathoggua, respectively?

    I also wish to know if the works of other writers count in the Cthulhu mythos cosmology. (August Derleth and Ramsey Campbell are two examples.)

    if so I may have a few information on Azathoth and The mythos Cosmology worth hearing.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    The current profiles are mostly restricted to the things written by Lovecraft's personal circle of friends. Derleth is an exception, since his version of the Mythos paint a completely different picture of it, and severely contradict basically everything Lovecraft wrote, at least when it comes to the higher parts of the setting.
    Planck69
    Hey Ultima. The Dragon Ball thread actually made me think about something so I'd like to ask a question.

    Is it actually possible for an infinite expanse to have an edge or would the presence of an edge contradict it being infinite in the first place?
    Megaraptor149
    Hello i have question

    'But don't you define a god as something that's infinite?
    How can an infinite thing be smaller than infinity?"
    'An infinite set may be contained within an infinite set.
    An infinite set may contain an infinity of infinite subsets."

    Is this Low 1-A?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    What they're referring to is in principle very clear here, but the lack of elaboration by the text makes the statement a lot more ambiguous: It could either be referring to higher-dimensional spaces ranging from Low 2-C to High 1-B, or to sets of different cardinalities altogether, which would be 1-A+ instead. Without more evidence, we assume the former.
    Megaraptor149
    Megaraptor149
    It's something like similar higher dimensionality
    Delta333
    Hi Ultima,I have a question about tier 1 and since you're expert about it,I think I should ask you for clarification
    Can a tier 2 character interact with tier 1 character if they fight in the same place due to SBA condition?Given that this tier 2 character is non-smurf and tier 1 character is not omnipresent and can't perceive tier 2 character as fiction
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    If they are both physically lower-dimensional and only have Tier 2 and Tier 1 power, respectively, then, yeah.
    Delta333
    Delta333
    thanks for answering me,so if tier 1 character is not physically lower dimensional,that tier 2 character will not interact with it even they're in same place?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Yeah. The Tier 1 character would be just too large to exist within the same space as the Tier 2 character.
    Dagoth_OwO
    Hi Ultima, I heard you are an expert on dimensions. I was wondering, would a black hole that can devour even space-time itself be considered a 4th dimensional black hole? From what I've understood normal black holes are a regions/curvatures in space-time (could be wrong tho lol) but they can't really devour the universe itself. If a black hole can devour space-time itself would that black hole be considered to be of a higher dimension or 4D since it could just suck up the entire timeline?
    Planck69
    Hey Ultima, I have a question.

    So, the Vast Expanse is a multiverse, with its own overarching time. Now, when a character attempts to manipulate space, he sees countless "dimensional spaces" i.e. spatial dimensions beyond the regular 3, that stretch out across the entire multiverse in terms of length.

    Would this be High 1-B (Since it means infinite in context) or just still 2-B?
    Planck69
    Planck69
    By the way, here's the context;

    "What is space...?” Meng Hao murmured. The sound of his voice echoed out, causing the starry sky to shake. Although his eyes were closed, in his mind, he could see numerous dimensional spaces, spreading out in all directions, stretching out over such a vast area that they seemed limitless.
    “Length ... is space ...
    “Height ... is space ...
    “Breadth ... is also space ...
    “Size, can also be an expression of space...” Among the countless dimensional spaces, he saw that they could be described in terms of length, height, breadth, and overall size. And yet all of that seemed to be only a portion of what space was. Those were all... descriptions of space.
    However, Meng Hao still didn't understand everything clearly. There was something he was missing, something he hadn’t grasped.''

    "Space... is nothing more than countless threads, formed together into a pattern. The patterns formed by those threads... are space!” Meng Hao shook his head, then waved his hand, causing a circle to appear beneath his feet.
    “I am currently within space,” he said, looking down. Then he smiled as his enlightenment deepened. As for the sea of flames that was the Outsider Dao Sovereign, it appeared to be on the verge of consuming Meng Hao, but to the Dao Sovereign’s utter shock, he realized that the flames were stuck to the outside of the thread that formed the circle!
    [...]
    Meng Hao’s expression was calm as he looked at the circle formed by the thread, within which he stood. Then he smiled. '“As for these threads... doesn't the Essence I have gained enlightenment of consist of more than just the threads themselves?
    “Within these threads are length, height, breadth, and size. They are limitless, and that is space....     They are flat, but actually....” He waved his right hand, causing a thread to stretch out from the circle, and then pass over him. In the blink of an eye, the circle of threads was no longer flat, but had transformed into... a sphere!
    “With an additional thread, it is no longer a circle, but a sphere, like a world ...''

    Meng Hao saw countless dimensions of space, all of them different sizes. Some were blurry, others were clear. They transformed into countless threads, threads that Meng Hao was very familiar with; every time he unleashed the Eighth Hex, these threads would appear, bind whoever was the target of the magic, and seal their cultivation base as well as their Nascent Divinity.
    Originally, Meng Hao had assumed that the threads were natural laws of Heaven and Earth. But now that he could see them clearly, he understood that they... were definitely not natural or magical laws!
    They were dimensional spaces!''
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Yeah, it seems like the "threads" are referring to the individual axes comprising a dimensional space, so, if there are infinite of those, it'd be High 1-B.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Thanks man. You the MVP.
    Emirp sumitpo
    Hey I have a question: I have a question, if a character is as large as multiple Low 2-C structures, what speed would they get? Like say, they are 2-C via sheer size. Would they get immesurable?
    View previous comments…
    Emirp sumitpo
    Emirp sumitpo
    Curious but why infinite? Wouldn't covering across multiple Low 2-C structures be immesuarable as it's technically moving across multiple space time continuums?
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Infinite is if the universes are infinite in size.

    Not quite. There's a difference between moving across the time stream because of range and because of speed.
    Emirp sumitpo
    Emirp sumitpo
    Ah, so if you were to be as big as several Low 2-C universes, you would only have that much range but wouldn't be immesuarble in speed? I see
    Planck69
    Hey Ultima, I have a question.

    A timeline is uncountably infinite times larger than a 3-dimensional universe because it's essentially uncountably infinite snapshots of it, if I got this right So, would this apply for a timeline with a 3-dimensional aspect of any size? If not then is there a specific reason?
    SonicMDC
    Hey, on the Fireman's profile, it should say "High 6-A to at least Low 1-A" instead of "High 6-A to At least Low 1-A" for both tier and attack potency.
    SonicMDC
    SonicMDC
    Well, actually Multi Continent level to at least Low Outerverse level for Attack Potency.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Didn't notice that. Thanks.
    SonicMDC
    SonicMDC
    You're welcome! Anytime!
    Amakasu
    Yo, I just saw the vsb tiering system, and it seemed that to reach outerversal you need to have the cardinality of Aleph 2. How does dc and marvel reach there?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Set theory just acts like a skeleton making sure comparisions between verses are possible to begin with. It's just a measuring stick, and a verse doesn't need to mention spaces of any given cardinality to reach 1-A.
    Amakasu
    Amakasu
    So, if the trancendense is big enough they can qualify for that tier right?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Yeah.
    Planck69
    Hello, I have a small question regarding temporal dimensions.

    Say, Alice can move through time like it is space, punch you in the crotch 3 days from now etc. Basically, she has Immeasurable speed. Now, her timeline is one among many others embedded in a higher overarching Time. Would she still have Immeasurable speed from the perspective of this higher timeline or be unable to move through it like space?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Not necessarily, no, unless she is explicitly capable of doing that. In all likelihood, this overarching time flow would just be the timeline which she abides by, as opposed to the timeline of any individual universe.
    Planck69
    Planck69
    Ah, I see. Thanks.
    Hello, i have a doubt can you answer me if any character that is low 1-C (or above) receives large size type 10 by default?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Not really, no. You can be both Tier 1 and human-sized, or anything-sized, for that matter.
    ZeryTyol
    I see, but what if the character in question is the embodiment of an infinite multiverse, or the void that surrounds that multiverse? Anyway thanks for the answer.
    RethPo
    Heyyy, mind helping out on this ctr? Just a calc and some scaling that needs to be agreed or disagreed on. Thanks in advance!
    StrymULTRA
    A question about HDE.

    In this CRT it was pointed that Mechikabura can absorb time and timelines in his being (and I repeat, absorb, not fuse), is that enough for him being HDE or not?
    StrymULTRA
    StrymULTRA
    Bump
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Depends. If he absorbs them and they become extensions of his physical body in the process, then, yeah, but if they're just dumped in a pocket dimension inside of him (Or something similar), then, no.
    Planck69
    Small question. Alice has 2-A range and Bob can destroy 2 2-A multiverses. Now, both their APs are baseline but what about their ranges? Are they equal or is Bob's range higher?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Bob has better range, yeah. We would still assume these multiverses are spatio-temporally isolated and separated by some higher space, so, crossing or encompassing the distance between them is still a range feat, even if not very useful to scale AP from.
    Apex_Predator_GX
    Hi buddy

    I hope you to be safe.... I was wondering if you can answer a question of mine:

    If is possible to Azathoth as a supreme Archetype God (a being superior to other Tier 0's) to totally destroy other tier 0 characters below him?

    Thanks in advance!
    Megaraptor149
    Hello ultima, i want to ask.

    What tier whould this?

    A world in the Shinken Universe. It is a kind of multiverse that contains countless branching worlds inside. The branches themselves are innumerable, but the length of the branches (the life span of the world) is finite. When the lifespan of a world is exhausted and it dies, the time axis of the world itself disappears and becomes the material for creating a new branch. In addition, one of the branched worlds becomes an infinite multi-layered world that continues forever. In other words, infinite multi-layered world x infinite world x multiple worlds of temporal branches = branching world.
    GreatIskandar14045
    GreatIskandar14045
    Just 2-A since we don't even treat any countably infinity as higher than the baseline infinity, in example an infinite*infinite*infinite*infinite*infinite multiverse is no superior than the baseline 2-A unless the verse treat so, it's just a better range feat.
    Megaraptor149
    Megaraptor149
    Okey
  • Loading…
  • Loading…
  • Loading…
Back
Top