Popular/Controversial Verses and the Determination Thereof

[FinePoint]

This is the list minus Jojo, Undertale, Gravity Falls, and Fairy Tail (which in my experience was never much of a problem).

Spoiler: Final Final True List

Ben 10
Bleach
Chainsaw Man
DC
Demon Slayer
Devil May Cry
Dragon Ball
Four Knights of the Apocalypse
Fujitakaverse (includes Instant Death)
Hoyoverse (includes Genshin Impact)
God of War
Hellaverse (includes Hazbin Hotel)
Jujutsu Kaisen
Marvel
Mario
Megami Tensei
My Hero Academia
Naruto
Nasuverse (includes Fate)
One Piece
One-Punch Man
Pokemon
Sonic
That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime
The Misfit of Demon King Academy
Tokyo Revengers
World of Darkness

 

[StrymULTRA]

Genshin Impact

Shouldn't it be "Hoyoverse (includes Genshin Impact)"? Given that GI is still part of the Hoyo megaverse (the cosmology page pretty much puts all the games under the same cosmology as well)?

It should be noted that lately the downgrade threads of Hoyoverse as a whole are quite LONG (it includes a Tier 0 downgrade) so I think it's pretty fit:

(2 STAFF NEED) Genshin Low 2-C Downgrade

I took a break for a while and while I am gone, I saw neuvillete Low 2-C? What is this bs? I checked the upgrade thread, it was filled was misinformations and yet it passed? What's going on? So, I will debunk why genshin Low 2-C is not possible for now and why it's not universal in this thread...

vsbattles.com

Genshin Low 2-C For Everyone Need To Go

This thread is for this crt. https://vsbattles.com/threads/2-staff-need-genshin-low-2-c-downgrade.185554/ I had to make the downgrade thread because of the wrong upgrade that happened recently which upgrade all shades and dragon soverigns to Low 2-C. @Antvasima gave me the permission to...

vsbattles.com

Tier-0 GGZ Yog-Sothoth Downgrade: Logical Problem With Tao

Hello everyone, East here back with another attempt to downgrade another character and this CRT we are going to focus on Yog-Sothoth of Gun Girl Z… okay it sounds cringe alright. This is her profile and this is when first it was brought up, this is the CRT in which it was accepted. The topic of...

vsbattles.com

(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

Ok, so I believe the Honkai fandom had their fun and stuff with the recent L1A upgrade. Unfortunately for them though, this gave me time to ruminate on further scaling. Particularly regarding the context of certain concepts within the verse, as I, self-admittedly, am a total Hi3 noob. And as...

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology Rework

I'll split this into two parts. 1. It was accepted here that the Tree should scale to the Sea of Quanta since it's apparently born from the "primordial chaos", but the same statement stated that the Tree became a huge, unrivaled Tree — Which means, undisputedly the Tree would have to be...

vsbattles.com

Immeasurable Speed Honkai is the greatest Psyop of All Time

Oh, Honkaibros, it's that time of the year again, I guess. (It's been 1 week) The topic for today is Honkai's infamous Immeasurable Speed rating. (Yes, the one that never gets used cuz of speed equalization) So I gracefully went over all justifications I could find for the speed one-by-one...

vsbattles.com

Yet another Hoyoverse cosmology downgrade

I ask that no one derail this thread, whether with memes, complaining about it, or anything else. My core problem with this is that: To begin with, while I think this has already been addressed in the previous downgrade, dimensions from the fourth onward are implicitly finite inverse...

vsbattles.com

All of these are easily over 10 pages long, so I don't think it makes sense to restrict to just one of the games of the setting when all of them share the same issue of controversy.

 

[Voidnether]

Shouldn't it be "Hoyoverse (includes Genshin Impact)"? Given that GI is still part of the Hoyo megaverse (the cosmology page pretty much puts all the game under the same cosmology as well)?

It should be noted that lately the downgrade threads of Hoyoverse as a whole are quite LONG (it includes a Tier 0 downgrade) so I think it's pretty fit:

(2 STAFF NEED) Genshin Low 2-C Downgrade

I took a break for a while and while I am gone, I saw neuvillete Low 2-C? What is this bs? I checked the upgrade thread, it was filled was misinformations and yet it passed? What's going on? So, I will debunk why genshin Low 2-C is not possible for now and why it's not universal in this thread...

vsbattles.com

Genshin Low 2-C For Everyone Need To Go

This thread is for this crt. https://vsbattles.com/threads/2-staff-need-genshin-low-2-c-downgrade.185554/ I had to make the downgrade thread because of the wrong upgrade that happened recently which upgrade all shades and dragon soverigns to Low 2-C. @Antvasima gave me the permission to...

vsbattles.com

Tier-0 GGZ Yog-Sothoth Downgrade: Logical Problem With Tao

Hello everyone, East here back with another attempt to downgrade another character and this CRT we are going to focus on Yog-Sothoth of Gun Girl Z… okay it sounds cringe alright. This is her profile and this is when first it was brought up, this is the CRT in which it was accepted. The topic of...

vsbattles.com

(ACCEPTED) Sliming all Honkai Scaling (GONE BRUTAL)

Ok, so I believe the Honkai fandom had their fun and stuff with the recent L1A upgrade. Unfortunately for them though, this gave me time to ruminate on further scaling. Particularly regarding the context of certain concepts within the verse, as I, self-admittedly, am a total Hi3 noob. And as...

vsbattles.com

Honkai Cosmology Rework

I'll split this into two parts. 1. It was accepted here that the Tree should scale to the Sea of Quanta since it's apparently born from the "primordial chaos", but the same statement stated that the Tree became a huge, unrivaled Tree — Which means, undisputedly the Tree would have to be...

vsbattles.com

Immeasurable Speed Honkai is the greatest Psyop of All Time

Oh, Honkaibros, it's that time of the year again, I guess. (It's been 1 week) The topic for today is Honkai's infamous Immeasurable Speed rating. (Yes, the one that never gets used cuz of speed equalization) So I gracefully went over all justifications I could find for the speed one-by-one...

vsbattles.com

Yet another Hoyoverse cosmology downgrade

I ask that no one derail this thread, whether with memes, complaining about it, or anything else. My core problem with this is that: To begin with, while I think this has already been addressed in the previous downgrade, dimensions from the fourth onward are implicitly finite inverse...

vsbattles.com

All of these are easily over 10 pages long, so I don't think it makes sense to restrict to just one of the games of the setting when all of them share the same issue of controversy.

Almost 90% of them were because of the unnecessary derailing unfortunately which doesn't even contribute onto said thread, and like even if we restrict it to be requiring 3 staff votes. I bumped like 3 threads of mine (one thread for HI3, one thread for HSR, and one thread for GI in which literally two of them doesn't have any staff votes and they're mainly the first two which are HI3 & HSR or the Honkaiverse if you'd call it as that).

If there's any contentions from me, is that atleast if it's going to require 3 staff votes then list it on the priority list or something especially for Honkaiverse because it's something that Genshin Impact already gets 2 staff votes in a page and a half before the supporters detailed it into 10 pages in the conceptual moons thread.

Tbh, we would probably require additional staff votes from all the downgrade that passed rn cause like the Immeasurable speed CRT for example got accepted with 4 staff votes (2 super administrator and 2 thread mods, but it got nuked with just 2 thread mods).

HI3:

Honkaiverse Plot Manipulation Addition

There's already an entire blog section made for this but it was apparently never a thing (since we all unanimously decided to push for Logic Manipulation but we failed). I'll keep this brief for everyone, Herrscher of Truth or the awakened version of Herrscher of Reason is able to manipulate...

vsbattles.com

HSR:

Honkai — Abyssal Energy Manipulation

Since the Honkai and the Imaginary Energy has been accepted in the previous thread, I want to propose for the Aeons and the Cocoon of Finality to be the source of the Abyss in Genshin Impact with Emanators having access to High-level Abyssal Energy Manipulation (to be more clear, Emanators...

vsbattles.com

Genshin Impact:

Genshin Impact — Conceptual Moons (Accepted, but still require further clarifications)

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) The thread was originally accepted here, honestly I don't see anything that states the Shades are concepts other than the concept of time one which wouldn't work since it talks about the concept of time as something that only exists in the mind. This is refering...

vsbattles.com

 

[FinePoint]

Shouldn't it be "Hoyoverse (includes Genshin Impact)"? Given that GI is still part of the Hoyo megaverse (the cosmology page pretty much puts all the games under the same cosmology as well)?

I have no idea. Are they directly part of the same universe (like scaling to each other somehow) or just on a technicality?

 

[Voidnether]

I have no idea. Are they directly part of the same universe or just on a technicality?

Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail and Genshin Impact are all on the same universe (Imaginary Tree), in a different timeframe in which HI3 and HSR could both cover the entirety of the Tree including the trunk, the branches and the leaves whilst Genshin Impact is only covering a single Leaf World in the Tree.

I don't know what timeframe Genshin takes place in, but HSR is several years after HI3.

 

[FinePoint]

Honkai Impact 3rd, Honkai: Star Rail and Genshin Impact are all on the same universe (Imaginary Tree), in a different timeframe in which HI3 and HSR could both cover the entirety of the Tree including the trunk, the branches and the leaves whilst Genshin Impact is only covering a single Leaf World in the Tree.

I don't know what timeframe Genshin takes place in, but HSR is several years after HI3.

So do they actually scale to each other or is this more like how Lucifer is technically part of the expanded Arrowverse?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I have no idea. Are they directly part of the same universe (like scaling to each other somehow) or just on a technicality?

As I said, the cosmology page mentions that all of them are in the same cosmology.

Ninja'd.

Almost 90% of them were because of the unnecessary derailing unfortunately which doesn't even contribute onto said thread, and like even if we restrict it to be requiring 3 staff votes. I bumped like 3 threads of mine (one thread for HI3, one thread for HSR, and one thread for GI in which literally two of them doesn't have any staff votes and they're mainly the first two which are HI3 & HSR or the Honkaiverse if you'd call it as that).

If there's any contentions from me, is that atleast if it's going to require 3 staff votes then list it on the priority list or something especially for Honkaiverse because it's something that Genshin Impact already gets 2 staff votes in a page and a half before the supporters detailed it into 10 pages in the conceptual moons thread.

Tbh, we would probably require additional staff votes from all the downgrade that passed rn cause like the Immeasurable speed CRT for example got accepted with 4 staff votes (2 super administrator and 2 thread mods, but it got nuked with just 2 thread mods).

HI3:

Honkaiverse Plot Manipulation Addition

There's already an entire blog section made for this but it was apparently never a thing (since we all unanimously decided to push for Logic Manipulation but we failed). I'll keep this brief for everyone, Herrscher of Truth or the awakened version of Herrscher of Reason is able to manipulate...

vsbattles.com

HSR:

Honkai — Abyssal Energy Manipulation

Since the Honkai and the Imaginary Energy has been accepted in the previous thread, I want to propose for the Aeons and the Cocoon of Finality to be the source of the Abyss in Genshin Impact with Emanators having access to High-level Abyssal Energy Manipulation (to be more clear, Emanators...

vsbattles.com

Genshin Impact:

Genshin Impact — Conceptual Moons (Accepted, but still require further clarifications)

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) The thread was originally accepted here, honestly I don't see anything that states the Shades are concepts other than the concept of time one which wouldn't work since it talks about the concept of time as something that only exists in the mind. This is refering...

vsbattles.com

If we wanna be really fair, Hellaverse is in the same situation but the recent threads warranted its place in the list.

 

[Voidnether]

So do they actually scale to each other or is this more like how Lucifer is technically part of the expanded Arrowverse?

I think the latter since the Genshin Universe as it is currently, is isolated from the rest unlike HI3 who has their isolation removed years ago.

 

[FinePoint]

I think the latter since the Genshin Universe as it is currently, is isolated from the rest unlike HI3 who has their isolation removed years ago.

Then it probably makes more sense practically to treat them separately for this.

Though, if they're all controversial we might as well lump them together, but I wouldn't know.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Though, if they're all controversial we might as well lump them together, but I wouldn't know.

They just had a Tier 0 downgrade and all of the downgrade CRTs that happened in the past 2 months are over 10 pages long, so take a guess.

 

[FinePoint]

They just had a Tier 0 downgrade and all of the downgrade CRTs that happened in the past 2 months are over 10 pages long, so take a guess.

Alright. I'll change it to Hoyoverse as a whole then.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

On the subject of Undertale, I will say that its threads still have the potential to be very quickly very bad (acknowledging that technically, this is a calc group thread and not a CRT). I'm not going to push the argument beyond this, but I remain of my old opinion that UT is controversial enough for all of this to apply.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

This is the list minus Jojo, Undertale, Gravity Falls, and Fairy Tail (which in my experience was never much of a problem).

On the subject of Undertale, I will say that its threads still have the potential to be very quickly very bad (acknowledging that technically, this is a calc group thread and not a CRT). I'm not going to push the argument beyond this, but I remain of my old opinion that UT is controversial enough for all of this to apply.

I would like to add that's far from the truth as @Mr. Bambu mentioned... And would like to add to that with a few examples.

3 pages discussion for an ability change (minor to full) with the supporters agreeing to it, while the staff and some non-supporters are hard against it.

And let's not talk about the immeasurable speed...

 

[StrymULTRA]

And let's not talk about the immeasurable speed...

Literally none talked about it besides in the Tier 1 CRT but briefly.

Even then idrc atp, just put Deltarune together if y'all want given they're in a shared cosmology.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Literally none talked about it besides in the Tier 1 CRT but briefly.

Even then idrc atp, just put Deltarune together if y'all want given they're in a shared cosmology.

Remind me how many CRTs has their been regarding it? (either way, let's not talk here)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Remind me how many CRTs has their been regarding it? (either way, let's not talk here)

The only real attempt to remove it was this CRT that was rejected from pretty much everyone besides OP, and none else.

 

[FinePoint]

I would like to add that's far from the truth as @Mr. Bambu mentioned... And would like to add to that with a few examples.

I only meant that I never thought Fairy Tail was a problem. @DemonGodMitchAubin held things down and seemingly still does to an extent.

I agree with Undertale being on there, personally.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Even then idrc atp, just put Deltarune together if y'all want given they're in a shared cosmology.

Nuh uh, besides main scaling CRT(where peeps argued back and forth about whether we should scale high tiers to dark fountains size) anything else was relatively chill. And even that one wasn't that heated(compared to usual CRT of verses on the list).
I don't think Deltarune being in same cosmology is good enough reason, when they don't share that much, and CRTs that affect both of them are rare.
And only controversial Undertale CRT in recent monts was Sans CRT(linked above). So verse it's not really controversial.
Nuking Sans from the wiki would me more rational decision

 

[StrymULTRA]

And only controversial Undertale CRT in recent monts was Sans CRT(linked above). So verse it's not really controversial.

I'll expand on this later, at work rn.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This remains a staff thread that should not be unnecessarily derailed. The side chatter about Undertale isn't necessary, I think.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Would it make sense to also make a page listing controversial verses? I just had to look up this thread to check if a verse was considered controversial after not finding an answer in the discussion rules or when searching "controversial verse" on the Wiki.

 

[Antvasima]

Would it make sense to also make a page listing controversial verses? I just had to look up this thread to check if a verse was considered controversial after not finding an answer in the discussion rules or when searching "controversial verse" on the Wiki.

Isn't the idea here to eventually add a list to one of the official rule-pages in our wiki?

 

[FinePoint]

Isn't the idea here to eventually add a list to one of the official rule-pages in our wiki?

Yes, assuming we can ever agree on the list.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Isn't the idea here to eventually add a list to one of the official rule-pages in our wiki?

Discussion rules, probably, since it already lists some examples. Perhaps having the list under a spoiler tag or something would work.

 

[Reiner04]

Recently, the Ben 10 verse was split into Ben 10 (Classic) and Ben 10 (Reboot). Ben 10 (Classic) refers to the original Ben 10 series, which is far more popular and followed by the majority of the Ben 10 community. In contrast, Ben 10 (Reboot) is significantly less popular, to the point that on-site, only one person appears to actively maintain or have knowledge about it (Demonic dude), while most other Ben 10 supporters show little to no interest in it. Because of this, I think Ben 10 (Classic) should be the one specifically mentioned in the list, while the Reboot shouldn't. Most users on the site are already aware of how unpopular the Reboot is. Even so, if other staff members objects, i wouldn't oppose.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Anyways.
I just realised that this staff thread hasn't officially been accepted and finalized (although everyone's unofficially acknowledging it like it's accepted already). Even after the finalization and stuff, I do suggest this thread being open since anything about a verse can change, and depending on their tenure here, they might be added or dropped off the list from time to time.

 

[FinePoint]

I just realised that this staff thread hasn't officially been accepted and finalized (although everyone's unofficially acknowledging it like it's accepted already). Even after the finalization and stuff, I do suggest this thread being open since anything about a verse can change, and depending on their tenure here, they might be added or dropped off the list from time to time.

That's because the current rule leaves it entirely up to interpretation, and this thread therefore acts as the most up-to-date consensus on what qualifies.

My idea for additions/removals was the All-Purpose Request Thread.

 

[GunshyFever]

I was granted permission by Fine Point to leave a comment here. I wanted to address Chainsaw Man being listed as one of the popular verses that require 3 or more votes. I am not sure what the basis for a popular verse is here, but I will go by the standard definition of popular in terms of having a lot of supporters, requiring a lot of CRTs and having varying opinions that may need to be watched more closely. If that is the case, I do not believe the VSBW Chainsaw Man supporters should be part of this list. It is a relatively small group of people who have contributed throughout the years, enough to make slow but steady progress. Therefore, given the limited manpower and small numbers we have, I do not think we should be considered a large verse at the very least. However, if there is anything I should be informed of, please let me know.

 

[Random-Helper323]

At very least I'd be surprised if Chainsaw Man remained a controversial verse after a few years pass, so it probably won't stay there after a while. Verse is currently fairly new.

 

[GunshyFever]

I am not entirely sure what you mean when you say that the verse is fairly new, as discussions regarding the series have been active since early 2019 up to now. But I do agree with you when it comes to Chainsaw Man not being a controversial verse as time passes. To be honest, even now there is not much contention or many cluttered opinions, with CRTs being spread out and generally straightforward with minimal controversy. I stand firm in my belief that even now Chainsaw Man should not really be on that list.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It is a new verse, being single digit years old, but that doesn't really matter.

It's a bad habit, I think, to judge these things from the immediate past. Undertale was argued to be low controversy, but historically, it invites a ton of issues, and that's just waiting to boil over. With that said, from a cursory look, I do agree that Chainsaw Man is much less of a problem. I'd be fine with signing off on it being removed from the list.

On a more general note: I know this thread is a bit of a problem, as it is being unofficially enforced but it's unclear whether it is concluded. For all intents and purposes, the concept of the thread is approved. We really do need to nail down the list and apply this formally.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It is a new verse, being single digit years old, but that doesn't really matter.

It's a bad habit, I think, to judge these things from the immediate past. Undertale was argued to be low controversy, but historically, it invites a ton of issues, and that's just waiting to boil over. With that said, from a cursory look, I do agree that Chainsaw Man is much less of a problem. I'd be fine with signing off on it being removed from the list.

The key is, Chainsaw Man is currently popular, but its manga just ended, and to be blunt I think it'll just be another medium popularity series in a few years.

On a more general note: I know this thread is a bit of a problem, as it is being unofficially enforced but it's unclear whether it is concluded. For all intents and purposes, the concept of the thread is approved. We really do need to nail down the list and apply this formally.

The problem is there's no list of controversial verses on the Wiki from what I could find. And meanwhile this thread is taking ages to conclude while individual verses are debated back and forth. I think it'd be better to discuss specific verses later, and add an accessible and usable list earlier. The alternative is using this thread to figure out controversial verses, or alternatively just being stuck with uncertainty.

 

[FinePoint]

On a more general note: I know this thread is a bit of a problem, as it is being unofficially enforced but it's unclear whether it is concluded. For all intents and purposes, the concept of the thread is approved. We really do need to nail down the list and apply this formally.

Agreed. I think we should apply it ASAP and move to having changes be through the APRT or whatever we think is fitting.

Anyway, here's the list minus Chainsaw Man:

Spoiler: Final Final True Absolute List

Ben 10
Bleach
DC
Demon Slayer
Devil May Cry
Dragon Ball
Four Knights of the Apocalypse
Fujitakaverse (includes Instant Death)
Hoyoverse (includes Genshin Impact)
God of War
Hellaverse (includes Hazbin Hotel)
Jujutsu Kaisen
Marvel
Mario
Megami Tensei
My Hero Academia
Naruto
Nasuverse (includes Fate)
One Piece
One-Punch Man
Pokemon
Sonic
That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime
The Misfit of Demon King Academy
Tokyo Revengers
World of Darkness

 

[StarShooter80]

Got permission here. The Dragon Ball Toei and Game verses should also be considered as major like the canon one. Both had their fair share of threads spanning multiple pages, and many revisions for canon also just go on to effect the the other two anyways, especially Tier 1 cosmology threads for games.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Got permission here. The Dragon Ball Toei and Game verses should also be considered as major like the canon one. Both had their fair share of threads spanning multiple pages, and many revisions for canon also just go on to effect the the other two anyways, especially Tier 1 cosmology threads for games.

I actually believe the "dragon ball" on the list applies universally to all things DB. But the games already require 3 anyways because of the tier 1 cosmology, yeah. If it helps to make it clear later, I agree with noting both alongside the canon series.

 

[Antvasima]

Recently, the Ben 10 verse was split into Ben 10 (Classic) and Ben 10 (Reboot). Ben 10 (Classic) refers to the original Ben 10 series, which is far more popular and followed by the majority of the Ben 10 community. In contrast, Ben 10 (Reboot) is significantly less popular, to the point that on-site, only one person appears to actively maintain or have knowledge about it (Demonic dude), while most other Ben 10 supporters show little to no interest in it. Because of this, I think Ben 10 (Classic) should be the one specifically mentioned in the list, while the Reboot shouldn't. Most users on the site are already aware of how unpopular the Reboot is. Even so, if other staff members objects, i wouldn't oppose.

I agree with this.

 

[Naito-desu]

Then it probably makes more sense practically to treat them separately for this.

Though, if they're all controversial we might as well lump them together, but I wouldn't know.

I want to add the caveat that ZZZ is technically part of Hoyoverse but not particularly controversial since it currently is much less popular and undergoes much less CRT frequency than the rest of these verses since there's no confirmed shared cosmology

 

[Sooshirohl]

got permission to post here and yeah i basically agree with what naito said, given the lack of real connection (at least at the moment) between ZZZ and it's hoyo sisters, as well as the fact that it's generally just a lot smaller both in scale and in supporters on the site here i don't think it should be held to the same strict standards that the other hoyo games are held at