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Holding Arnold's Hand

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Therefir said:
Your method does make sense, ablation occurs below 110 kilometers, since only at that altitude are the atmospheric layers dense enough for ablation to occur.

@CloverDragon03 You seem to be fine with calculating the speed but not using the distance of 110 km, why is that?
Click to expand...
For height, I'm neither here nor there
 
CloverDragon03 said:
For height, I'm neither here nor there
Click to expand...
If we could get some more concrete opinions on which height is best though, that'd be great. Since, it seems that the majority are in favor of using a calculated speed, but as for which height to use, it is rather evenly split in terms of votes atm.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Ngl I find this hilarious because even though I used ablation speed, I don’t even support that anymore 😭

Calculated speed > assumed speed
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Says the guy who was said using calculated speed doesn't make much sense cause these characters are FTL
 
Also my exact wording was: “In fairness, these are close to lightspeed characters, and we don't really get a frame of reference for how fast it goes.”

This was in response to the claim that Asta seemed to blitz the meteor.

I didn’t say calcing the speed was bad, I just didn’t think we had a good frame of reference. Turns out, we did
 
CloverDragon03 said:
What makes more sense for such characters? 3 km/s or 18 km/s?
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I mean that doesn't really matter, both are fodder to FTL characters and the meteor's claim to fame isn't it's speed

But I guess I'm fine with Arnold's speed cause it is an frame by frame calculated speed

The size is still whack tho, half the shots, the meteor's small and underneath clouds, but then also in space

So BC having terrible consistency as always
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I mean that doesn't really matter, both are fodder to FTL characters and the meteor's claim to fame isn't it's speed

But I guess I'm fine with Arnold's speed cause it is an frame by frame calculated speed

The size is still whack tho, half the shots, the meteor's small and underneath clouds, but then also in space

So BC having terrible consistency as always
Click to expand...
So I’ll put you for clovers height and Arnold’s speed?
 
We’re still just deciding which calc is the most accurate based on its parameters (speed and height) I guess and probably any adjustments one can think of if they disagree with both.
 
Armorchompy said:
Unless there's any issues I'm not aware of, Arnold's calc seems fine.
Click to expand...
Therefir said:
@Arnoldstone18 According to this source, meteors such as the Draconids in October, fall to about 70 km before they heat up enough to glow.

This is because the Draconids are much slower than other meteors, falling at 20 km/s.

The height in the atmosphere at which a meteor begins to glow (ablation) depends on its arrival speed.

The meteor in question is slower than the Draconids, meaning it would need to fall below 70 km to actually begin to ablate.
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Therefir said:
Since even assuming this meteor was formed at 110 kilometers above the surface only gives us a speed of 17.47 km/s, Clover's height might actually be more accurate.

So I would either go with 85 or 70 kilometers for the height, 110 km is only applicable for faster meteors.
Click to expand...
 
That seems fair. I don't think it'd give less than this but just in case it does, you should use the actual entry speed for meteors I think, which iirc is at absolute minimum 11000 m/s, rather than "just" ablation.
 
Armorchompy said:
That seems fair. I don't think it'd give less than this but just in case it does, you should use the actual entry speed for meteors I think, which iirc is at absolute minimum 11000 m/s, rather than "just" ablation.
Click to expand...
Why would we use actual entry speed for meteor here, given that it didn't actually come from space so far as I'm aware?
 
Therefir said:
Since even assuming this meteor was formed at 110 kilometers above the surface only gives us a speed of 17.47 km/s, Clover's height might actually be more accurate.

So I would either go with 85 or 70 kilometers for the height, 110 km is only applicable for faster meteors.
Click to expand...

Hey Therefir, so I did some research. Remember when I said Draconian? meteors are small. The other meteor are also small. So the only way for them to generate enough temperatures in their descent for ablation to occur is by moving at extremely high speeds.

But look at the meteor here. It’s WAY more massive. Thus has more wayyy surface area for air molecules to collide and since it’s initial speeds are already atmospheric entry level they pressure on the air molecules become soooo intense which leads to an insane increase in temperature of the air molecules and the meteor. And then you’ll see the meteors glow. This is not the case for natural meteors that are small as **** in comparison so all they have to increase their temperatures is their speeds.

Btw I calculated the drag force of the meteor and it’s too small to decelerate the meteor rather acceleration will be reduced by a negligible as **** amount. @Arc7Kuroi
 
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Drag Force = 0.5 * Drag Coefficient * Density * Velocity^2 * Cross-sectional Area

Cross-sectional Area = π * Radius^2

π * (81170 meters)^2

20786843179.8 square meters

Using 0.47 as the drag coefficient.

Drag Force = 0.5 * 0.47 * 3350 kg/m^3 * (18736.48 m/s)^2 * 20786843179.8 square meters

Drag Force = 6.6163e16 Newtons


Now let’s see the gravitational force of the meteor.


Gravitational Force = Mass * Acceleration due to gravity

Gravitational Force = 1.6281e19 kg * 9.8 m/s^2

Gravitational Force = 1.595738e20 Newtons.

Look how negligible the drag force is in comparison! So this meteor is not slowing down at all.
 
Let me show you how negligible drag is on this meteor.

Net Force = Gravitational Force - Drag Force

Total Force = 1.595738e20 Newtons - 6.6163e16 Newtons

Total Force = 1.595076e20 Newtons

See? The force of the meteor has barely changed.
Acceleration = Net Force / Mass

Acceleration = (1.595076e20 Newtons) / 1.6281e19 kg

Acceleration = 9.803 m/s^2

See? Literally barely any change. Went from 9.81 to 9.8.




Edit: So the meteor is going to generate so much heat to cause it to light up. Unlike the Draconian meteor that only lit up at very low height due to smaller surface area thus way smaller pressure on the air molecules at lesser speeds compared to other meteors of comparable sizes. So this meteor in both clover and my blog should be above 110km since it didn’t undergo ablation while it came out of the portal so let’s use 110km as a lowball since that’s the highest point meteors turn to fireballs.
 
Last edited:
The 110 kilometers height should work, just keep in mind that the speed of the meteor depends entirely on its size, which in turn depends entirely on the altitude used.

If the meteor was small and slow enough, it will not ablate anyway even below 110 kilometers.
 
Armorchompy said:
If that's the case then nevermind. Not that it seems to matter here.
Click to expand...

Ive addressed Therefir's concern. I proven that the Meteor will not decelerate due to drag given that its net force* > drag force significantly.
Therefore, given its initial speeds and lack of ablation at those speeds, it's better for the Meteor to have a height of at least 110km since it began ablation shortly after and thats the highest point meteors undergo ablation.

edit: gravitational force* not net force
 
Last edited:
Arnoldstone18 said:
Ive addressed Therefir's concern. I proven that the Meteor will not decelerate due to drag given that its net force > drag force significantly.
Therefore, given its initial speeds and lack of ablation at those speeds, it's better for the Meteor to have a height of at least 110km since it began ablation shortly after and thats the highest point meteors undergo ablation.
Click to expand...
For record; what is net? You mean resultant force?
 
clover: "I'm just gonna let this play out, I don't have enough craps to give about this anymore"
Also clover: "i second this"
 
Eh, could be true of false, actually. If the context refers to an object falling freely in a vacuum or in a situation where drag force is negligible compared to the gravitational force, then this would be true. In this case, the gravitational force dominates, and the object's motion is primarily governed by gravity.
 
dread what are you talking about
this,
ImmortalDread said:
a situation where drag force is negligible compared to the gravitational force, then this would be true.
Click to expand...
and this,
ImmortalDread said:
In this case, the gravitational force dominates, and the object's motion is primarily governed by gravity.
Click to expand...
are the same thing. arnold's entire point was that the object is so heavy compared to its surface area that the force of drag is negligible and so it will basically only accelerate due to gravity.

BECAUSE gravity is a constant (mostly) when close enough to Earth, it means using SUVATs or constant acceleration formulae is valid.
 
Y’all are derailing the conversation from the primary discussion. Please refrain from doing so.
 
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