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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating

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RethPo said:
A few of the stuff on the blog seems more like the characters getting suprised or knocked over than genuinely hurt but ah well.

If this thread is gonna downgrade the tier 3 and 4 ratings, the cast is oc gonna need a specific new tier.
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Yeah
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Honestly, depending on how you skew this, wouldn't the statement of the Mario characters being a "troupe of actors" completely ******* destroy and invalidate all the scaling and feats of the series via them all being... plays?
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Besides, I'm pretty sure that statement's legitimacy is dubious. Or at least misrepresented. That's just what I think.
 
So how would a varies rating work? Take each game or group of games’s consistent feats/tier and lump em all in as “varies from x, y, z, etc.”? It’ll be a lot of different tiers
 
Pikaman said:
So how would a varies rating work? Take each game or group of games’s consistent feats/tier and lump em all in as “varies from x, y, z, etc.”? It’ll be a lot of different tiers
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I was thinking of.

Varies (Insert explanation) from [Insert low end Tier] to [Insert middle-end tier] at most, to [Insert highest tier] at peak.

Tho do we still have the Sammer Kingdom feat as legit? And I mean debunked from the feat being wrong, not because "lol outlier". Because this can be made as an argument to bring back Low 2-C tbh.
 
StrymULTRA said:
I was thinking of.

Varies (Insert explanation) from [Insert low end Tier] to [Insert middle-end tier] at most, to [Insert highest tier] at peak.
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I mean it does kinda make sense but if someone wanted to make a match with a specific Mario and their AP just... wasn’t listed that would kinda suck. If we acknowledge every Mario has different APs we should list each one.
 
Pikaman said:
I mean it does kinda make sense but if someone wanted to make a match with a specific Mario and their AP just... wasn’t listed that would kinda suck. If we acknowledge every Mario has different APs we should list each one.
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Well, tbf Mario is differently powerful in different games but at same time it is the same Mario. Non rebooted, non alternate universe (with exception of Paper Mario, but that's Imo and already another topic).

Though if you meant more like, specifying all AP Mario has, then we can do similar what we are doing with Amphibia profiles, for instance, Anne's profile (God I need to work on Amphibia's feats more sometime).

Aka we can go "At least [insert lowest AP1] to [insert lowest AP2], At most [insert middle AP1] to [insert middle AP2], [insert highest AP] at peak".

You may consider that as an option if we want to go reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal deep on variety of AP.
 
Pikaman said:
I mean it does kinda make sense but if someone wanted to make a match with a specific Mario and their AP just... wasn’t listed that would kinda suck. If we acknowledge every Mario has different APs we should list each one.
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That would lead to spam. Also we don't do that with the Ds despite there are 22 of them, each with different tiers.
Oleggator said:
Aka we can go "At least [insert lowest AP1] to [insert lowest AP2], At most [insert middle AP1] to [insert middle AP2], [insert highest AP] at peak".
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This is what I mean with spam. 3 tiers should make it clear enough.
 
StrymULTRA said:
That would lead to spam. Also we don't do that with the Ds despite there are 22 of them, each with different tiers.
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Isn’t this
A: A team profile
B: A semi-unique case where it is very easy to figure out what the AP of each member is regardless of whether they are listed, as you just go up in dimensions
 
Oleggator said:
Well, tbf Mario is differently powerful in different games but at same time it is the same Mario. Non rebooted, non alternate universe (with exception of Paper Mario, but that's Imo and already another topic).

Though if you meant more like, specifying all AP Mario has, then we can do similar what we are doing with Amphibia profiles, for instance, Anne's profile (God I need to work on Amphibia's feats more sometime).

Aka we can go "At least [insert lowest AP1] to [insert lowest AP2], At most [insert middle AP1] to [insert middle AP2], [insert highest AP] at peak".

You may consider that as an option if we want to go reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal deep on variety of AP.
Click to expand...
Hmm that could work
 
Pikaman said:
Isn’t this
A: A team profile
B: A semi-unique case where it is very easy to figure out what the AP of each member is regardless of whether they are listed, as you just go up in dimensions
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Yeah but listing every single tier in existence Mario has showcased ain't doing it. This is not how Varies has been in this site, I don't make the rules.
 
You know, how about someone make a feats list for the Mario verse for each tier and character. Would that be better?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Fine, I'll try to give my own cents here, so here it goes nothing.

I fully agree with a Varies tier, as we can see from Miyamoto's claims, Mario is the same one across games, and all the characters are like actors playing different roles, depending on the plot of the game they're in.
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I'm sorry, but "different roles" implies that what we see across different games are different characters. If the roles are different then not just stats would change, but also P&A and backstory. Impractical though it may be, if we accept that, then the whole profile should be split.
StrymULTRA said:
This can easily be explained still from the fact that the plot of the game requires Mario to grow in power to face his enemies, while in other games it requires said power level to be the same through all the story.
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Here too, you're saying that entire mechanics do or do not apply to a character, we can't pick what transfers over between roles. Either we assume nothing changes, or everything must be capable of changing, which would include P&A and everything else, thus requiring multiple files, not just ratings.
StrymULTRA said:
Mario has definitely not a stable power level and it completely depends on the game he's in, [...]. No need for an explicit explanation when we see this in front of our eyes all the time since decades.
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That's just inconsistency, not basis for Varies.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Yeah but listing every single tier in existence Mario has showcased ain't doing it. This is not how Varies has been in this site, I don't make the rules.
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Fair enough, could you maybe do what the MCU do? Thor’s profile is a mess because it features a bunch of feats and calculations that aren’t the AP we use but here it would make sense, just name a bunch of feats, one for each clear and distinct Mario (if that makes sense)

There has to be some way to acknowledge each level of Mario’s power, right?

“Mario’s Power varies from a variety of different tiers and AP values, here’s 3-6 of them, we’re not gonna list the rest lol” is dumb, we’re an indexing wiki
 
Even if we went with varies I would be opposed to listing every rating, it would look ugly and "Varies" would cover that
 
For the record, varies is not my first preference, and I think having a clear separation between games/game groups is the best option, as it gives Mario consistency. He is NOT consistent from the Original Super Mario Bros. through to his newest games, but if you split it into Galaxy/Super/New Super/Kart/Sports etc. he becomes a very clear and consistent character amongst each of these individual subsets and it is a good explanation for why he is so inconsistent. Also, it doesn’t look as ugly, if aesthetics is really such an issue for listing stuff on a site primarily for listing info and not making it look pretty

Idrc how we split that but I think by keys is the best choice, different profiles for the same character is dumb
 
Pikaman said:
Idrc how we split that but I think by keys is the best choice, different profiles for the same character is dumb
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Is it the same character, though? Harrison Ford played both but Indiana Jones and Han Solo aren't the same guy. If we're considering "different roles" canonical then we need to take it all the way.
 
Armorchompy said:
Is it the same character, though? Harrison Ford played both but Indiana Jones and Han Solo aren't the same guy. If we're considering "different roles" canonical then we need to take it all the way.
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True tbf, never really thought about it that way but if we really gonna ride that quote all the way then this kinda mindset makes sense
 
Armorchompy said:
I'm sorry, but "different roles" implies that what we see across different games are different characters. If the roles are different then not just stats would change, but also P&A and backstory. Impractical though it may be, if we accept that, then the whole profile should be split.
Click to expand...
The characters I've listed are not changing their P&As despite their stats greatly vary in the situation. Cartoon characters do not always display their abilities, because even those depend on situation, but here we just make all of them at once for simplicity. Also this is ignoring that Mario is the same across all the games.
Armorchompy said:
Here too, you're saying that entire mechanics do or do not apply to a character, we can't pick what transfers over between roles. Either we assume nothing changes, or everything must be capable of changing, which would include P&A and everything else, thus requiring multiple files, not just ratings.
Click to expand...
Mechanics can be part of that if the plot demands it though. Galaxy games are about this, while the NSMB ones no.
Armorchompy said:
That's just inconsistency, not basis for Varies.
Click to expand...
We literally give Varies because of inconsistecies though. Why Mario should be any different.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The characters I've listed are not changing their P&As despite their stats greatly vary in the situation. Cartoon characters do not always display their abilities, because even those depend on situation, but here we just make all of them at once for simplicity. Also this is ignoring that Mario is the same across all the games.
Click to expand...
Well, those characters don't have any such statements. They've got toon force, but they're not actors playing roles, unlike Mario.
StrymULTRA said:
Mechanics can be part of that if the plot demands it though. Galaxy games are about this, while the NSMB ones no.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't really say that the Galaxy games are about characters being that strong, but I digress. But no matter what, what you are describing about RPGs is Accelerated Development, or something of the like. That is a power, not just a statistic.
StrymULTRA said:
We literally give Varies because of inconsistecies though. Why Mario should be any different.
Click to expand...
We do a lot of things that are wrong. Is there any page in which our standards for Varies are written?
Pikaman said:
Articles about Mario: Would get so messy lmao
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Not too messy, honestly. There'd be like, five to ten profiles at most if we grouped by series, which is way below some other characters. Just look at Godzilla.
 
Armorchompy said:
Well, those characters don't have any such statements. They've got toon force, but they're not actors playing roles, unlike Mario.
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Mario is quite cartoony in the same way, though.
Armorchompy said:
I wouldn't really say that the Galaxy games are about characters being that strong, but I digress. But no matter what, what you are describing about RPGs is Accelerated Development, or something of the like. That is a power, not just a statistic.
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And said stats vary across games, no?
Armorchompy said:
We do a lot of things that are wrong. Is there any page in which our standards for Varies are written?
Click to expand...
These are characters, weapons, etcetera, whose power levels are heavily inconsistent and/or subject to change. As well as for profiles of races/species whose power levels vary depending on the member.

Super Sonic or IDW Transformers characters are for the same reason.
 
Not sure how I feel about splitting these characters into different profiles. Paper Mario series sure, I can get behind the paper versions of these characters getting their own profiles but I ain't too fond of treating Mario in the NSMB games and the SMG games as their own characters. Also not sold on the idea of a varies tier some people have brought up, don't like trying to give inconsistent characters a varies without an in universe explanation for why their power varies.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Not sure how I feel about splitting these characters into different profiles. Paper Mario series sure, I can get behind the paper versions of these characters getting their own profiles but I ain't too fond of treating Mario in the NSMB games and the SMG games as their own characters. Also not sold on the idea of a varies tier some people have brought up, don't like trying to give inconsistent characters a varies without an in universe explanation for why their power varies.
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IDW Optimus is this tho.

Note: Due to the inconsistency of IDW, all characters have a Varies rating on their profiles due to how several writers handle the powers of the Transformers differently. Majority of IDW's top feats are consistently in the Tier 7 to Tier 6 range, and so, they are listed as such.
 
Ok, for those interested in splitting Mario by Mini-Franchise, here’s all of them of note



Donkey Kong
Game and Watch
Mario Kart
Super Mario Bros.
Dr. Mario
Super Mario Land
Mario Sports (Golf, Tennis. Mix, Strikers etc. etc.)
Super Mario World
Super Mario RPG
Hotel Mario
Mario Party
Mario 64
Paper Mario
Mario and Luigi
Mario Sunshine
Luigi’s Mansion
Mario Galaxy
3D Land/World
New Super Mario Bros.
Mario vs Donkey Kong
Mario Maker
Mario + Rabbids
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Super Mario Run

Obviously not all of these deserve profiles, some don’t even meet our standards, but uh, there they are
 
Pikaman said:
Ok, for those interested in splitting Mario by Mini-Franchise, here’s all of them of note



Donkey Kong
Game and Watch
Mario Kart
Super Mario Bros.
Dr. Mario
Super Mario Land
Mario Sports (Golf, Tennis. Mix, Strikers etc. etc.)
Super Mario World
Super Mario RPG
Hotel Mario
Mario Party
Mario 64
Paper Mario
Mario and Luigi
Mario Sunshine
Luigi’s Mansion
Mario Galaxy
3D Land/World
New Super Mario Bros.
Mario vs Donkey Kong
Mario Maker
Mario + Rabbids
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games
Super Mario Run

Obviously not all of these deserve profiles, some don’t even meet our standards, but uh, there they are
Click to expand...
Also, this doesn’t account for the fact we would have to apply these standards to all Mario characters, which themselves may feature in additional spin-offs Mario does not have major appearances in
 
I strongly disagree with splitting; not even Paper Mario. But things like Hotel Mario or Mario Teaches Typing weren't even published by Nintendo so those are exceptions of being non-canon. But even the 1st 3 Paper Mario games are clearly amongst the main reasons why the sports, party, kart, Luigi's Mansion are canon in the first place. And World, Sunshine, Galaxy games ect are all still officially part of the mainline "Super Mario" series and aren't even spinoffs period. And Yoshi's Island series is obviously the first in the series chronologically. Wario Land is just a sequal to the mainline Super Mario Land series. I know this is all a different topic, and I have seen some half compelling arguments that more recent Paper Mario games seem different via awkward statements, but the original PM trilogy clearly connects to both mainline series and other spinoffs. PM64 especially revealed a lot of the same characters from the original Yoshi's Island game.

Also, I might make may real input on the topic either sometime tonight after work or tomorrow.
 
Yes, Hotel Mario is one of the few games that actually is a different continuity. I don't mind it staying if it's uncontroversial stats, though if it's too bare bones only sounds like the only good reason.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Well we still have the Super Sonic thing however, who is "Low 2-C to 2-C" because yes.
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Apparently he has an in universe explanation for that, something about corny power of friendship being able to increase the power of the chaos emeralds or something like that being used for why Super Sonic can sometimes be 2-C instead of Low 2-C
 
Dust_Collector said:
Apparently he has an in universe explanation for that, something about corny power of friendship being able to increase the power of the chaos emeralds or something like that being used for why Super Sonic can sometimes be 2-C instead of Low 2-C
Click to expand...
💀
 
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