Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating

[Dust_Collector]

didnt nintendo say something along the lines of every mario game is its own universe and shouldn't be treated as if the games have any specific canon?

Most concrete thing we have regarding the canon is Miyamoto and Aonuma saying Mario is always the same guy unlike Link who tends to be a different dude across various games, don't think they've ever said each game is it's one universe (Which if that has been said, multiple games make direct reference to previous games, most notable being Sunshine)

 

[Nero415]

Ah yes, my favourite. Where we bring up verses and leave out context just to fit the argument. Nice.


Anyway, can we drop the other series shit already? All of you. It's not relevant. Discuss the shit related to this verse and that's it.

Umm yeah because power scaling rules don't just apply for one series genius.

 

[Arceus0x]

Sorry for barging in, but i wanna say sth so Kirby isn't brought up here again.
Besides minor outliers in the game itself (hurt by apples, can't suck up a small tree, can't make a random fan spin without wind abilities) he is consistently cosmic tier.

-Second game where he appeared already has a 5-C feat which may be 5-B if we end up accepting the moon being bigger
-super star has megaton punch which is High 6-A and fodder scale to 6-A so even the goomba tiers are 6-A
-super star also has Nova who is 5-A via KE and has Class Z ls
-Marx soul scales to ^
-Kirby's dreamland has a 5-A feat (Zero crashing onto popstar)
-Kirby 64 has some uncalced tier 5 feats
-Canvas curse has Drawcia turning the galaxy into paint and erasing countless stars with her magic which is 4-A
-Necordeus potentially destroyed stars
-Dark Nebula might've cleared out a nebula
-There are feats under discussion right now, one from RTDL and one from Robobot which might be 3-A but are at least 4-A
-Magolor nuked 16 starry skies which might be universes so 4-A to 2-C
-Void nuked 2 galaxies which is almost 3-B
-Kirby struck back a planet busting meteor through 11 planets (5-B++++)
-Elfilis threw the entire Popstar (5-A) and made a dimension that might have stars in it

So as you can see Kirby's a beast and is consistently tier 4 and 3, tier 2 being a possibility.
So please don't bring it up here to argue for something that has 2 feats and 65 anti-feats.

 

[Nero415]

... yeah I'm not saying those battle-boarding other series shouldn't consider similar stuff.

Ignoring that acid isn't heat but a separate thing, that's one showing, vs several showings here. It doesn't take precedence.

And they don't here, reasonably.

It's kinda because we are that we do.

And for every time that happens you get ten instances of Hulk or Thor pulling off casual tier 8 or 7 shit or even having cosmic feats. Genuinely I think Spider-Man has been even with Hulk only one notable time in 616 history, and Hulk holds back canonically anyway so it would be sus to consider it. There's a general idea of the power level of a character and most of the time writers do a passable job at sticking to it.

It's the opposite for Mario there's way more anti-feats than feats, cartoons are a bit closer but even then, Popeye is 9-B in base which is where all of his anti-feats are, Bugs Bunny was deleted and Spongebob's profile is bad has a varies rating, it's not like you can use our treatment of them to counter how we should treat Mario.

Final things cause I'm tired as hell

My mistake there, but still. Bowser has so many times have resisted lava and heat without damage. Hell, his kingdom is surrounded by lava. Most of these are after against his fight against Mario which would normally make him fatigued

They honestly do. Remember Mario has 200+ games alongside other supporting media. There are plenty of feats to choose from there.

Don't understand it but I guess

True. Still tho. They do have some egregious instances like Wonder Woman hurt by sharp objects.

It's not the opposite in Mario's case. Also, I would get into the other series you mentioned since I disagree with their placements (especially Bugs' profile being deleted) but it's not relevant here so I'll save that for another time.

Still tho. Like I said, Mario has 200+ games.There are many feats there that outweigh the anti-feats.

Anyway, I'm done now.

 

[Drhorrible100]

Most concrete thing we have regarding the canon is Miyamoto and Aonuma saying Mario is always the same guy unlike Link who tends to be a different dude across various games, don't think they've ever said each game is it's one universe (Which if that has been said, multiple games make direct reference to previous games, most notable being Sunshine)

I can't find any sources on what I said so I'm gonna drop my point. Thank you very much for the reply though!

Using those to scrutinize Mario stats when literally every single series has this problem, some even more than Mario like Marvel and DC, is literally just downplay at this point. They don't discredit any of the feats the cast have down at all. I really hope this doesn't go through, because it could really ruin your credibility.

Tbf I do agree that mario tends to have issues with people arguing over what counts as PIS or game mechanics when other series have worse issues, but just because people arguing against mario generally tend to do that doesn't mean every downgrade for mario falls into those arguments
Also Marioverse supporters do the same thing, just read every dimentio related upgrade thread in the past year
I would settle for a downgrade here, but I don't know how much he should be downgraded
I firmly believe that paper mario's profile should stay the same, however.

 

[Nero415]

Sorry for barging in, but i wanna say sth so Kirby isn't brought up here again.
Besides minor outliers in the game itself (hurt by apples, can't suck up a small tree, can't make a random fan spin without wind abilities) he is consistently cosmic tier.

-Second game where he appeared already has a 5-C feat which may be 5-B if we end up accepting the moon being bigger
-super star has megaton punch which is High 6-A and fodder scale to 6-A so even the goomba tiers are 6-A
-super star also has Nova who is 5-A via KE and has Class Z ls
-Marx soul scales to ^
-Kirby's dreamland has a 5-A feat (Zero crashing onto popstar)
-Kirby 64 has some uncalced tier 5 feats
-Canvas curse has Drawcia turning the galaxy into paint and erasing countless stars with her magic which is 4-A
-Necordeus potentially destroyed stars
-Dark Nebula might've cleared out a nebula
-There are feats under discussion right now, one from RTDL and one from Robobot which might be 3-A but are at least 4-A
-Magolor nuked 16 starry skies which might be universes so 4-A to 2-C
-Void nuked 2 galaxies which is almost 3-B
-Kirby struck back a planet busting meteor through 11 planets (5-B++++)
-Elfilis threw the entire Popstar (5-A) and made a dimension that might have stars in it

So as you can see Kirby's a beast and is consistently tier 4 and 3, tier 2 being a possibility.
So please don't bring it up here to argue for something that has 2 feats and 65 anti-feats.

I mean every Kirby game nowadays has Kirby doing some cosmic shit

Also Mario series has many similar feats to Kirby but you guys don't believe those so.

 

[Nero415]

I can't find any sources on what I said so I'm gonna drop my point. Thank you very much for the reply though!

Tbf I do agree that mario tends to have issues with people arguing over what counts as PIS or game mechanics when other series have worse issues, but just because people arguing against mario generally tend to do that doesn't mean every downgrade for mario falls into those arguments
Also Marioverse supporters do the same thing, just read every dimentio related upgrade thread in the past year
I would settle for a downgrade here, but I don't know how much he should be downgraded
I firmly believe that paper mario's profile should stay the same, however.

I suppose.

Also shouldn't Mario still scale to Paper Mario?

 

[Seol404]

I'm definitely in favor of a lower rating, although currently undecided on what that rating should be.

Bowser being hurt by bombs in SM64 is not a gameplay mechanic, that is canonically how he is defeated as that is the only way to defeat him in the game, this applies to every other instance where Bowser is defeated by bombs, lava, etc. Attempting to argue that this is only due to gameplay limitations would be to argue that the developers intend was vastly different from what is actually in the games, which you would need to then prove.

The plot induced stupidity argument I always find silly because it seems to stretch the idea of a single moment of stupidity across dozens of games to where you have to argue that the entire plots of several games are entirely stupidity since these moments drive the narrative further along and serve out entire scripted sequences during the stories.

If you are going to argue that Mario does have cosmic feats, please show any feat of Mario displaying cosmic levels of power that isn't incredibly dubious or already debunked.

 

[Arceus0x]

I mean every Kirby game nowadays has Kirby doing some cosmic shit

Also Mario series has many similar feats to Kirby but you guys don't believe those so.

its not that i don't believe those, it's just that when mario doesn't have basis for 3-C canons, Kirby has basis for at the very least 6-A ones and fodder than can train themselves to Kirby's level

 

[Nero415]

I'm definitely in favor of a lower rating, although currently undecided on what that rating should be.

Bowser being hurt by bombs in SM64 is not a gameplay mechanic, that is canonically how he is defeated as that is the only way to defeat him in the game, this applies to every other instance where Bowser is defeated by bombs, lava, etc. Attempting to argue that this is only due to gameplay limitations would be to argue that the developers intend was vastly different from what is actually in the games, which you would need to then prove.

The plot induced stupidity argument I always find silly because it seems to stretch the idea of a single moment of stupidity across dozens of games to where you have to argue that the entire plots of several games are entirely stupidity since these moments drive the narrative further along and serve out entire scripted sequences during the stories.

If you are going to argue that Mario does have cosmic feats, please show any feat of Mario displaying cosmic levels of power that isn't incredibly dubious or already debunked.

Yeah true. Still tho. It doesn't discredit him. And many other instances where Bowser is defeated by bombs and lava is relevant when he survives those with no problems. I REALLY don't want to use other games bosses as examples but still, it's a massive double standard when you scrutinize only Mario for this problem.

PIS is still something that shouldn't be used for rating characters.

He does, besides Galaxy, there's Paper Mario surviving Sammer's Kingdom, making a Planet sized fan, making a realm with stars, and Mario scales to him. Power Stars, which besides Mario Galaxy, have made constellations in one of the Mario Party games. I'm trying to look for more those are the ones I could find.

 

[Pikaman]

Also, can I bring up how weirdly the wiki deals with Paper Mario? We treat Mario and Paper Mario as the same person and character, sure, not my preferred option but anyways. It’s just that... they’ve met as separate entities? And from the looks of it the Wiki’s explanation is... that the Paper Mario in M&L Paper Jam, is not the Paper Mario from all the other Paper Mario games.

It makes no sense, the two should be separate

Forgive me if I’m missing anything, this has just boggled my mind for a while and while a Mario CRT is up...

there’s a note on Paper Mario’s page that explains why we treat Mario and his Paper counterpart as the same person with stuff from Luigi’s diary, but a reference to a few Mario spin offs that just as easily could happen in the Paper Mario verse isn’t evidence enough to convince me the two are one and the same, when the two have literally met.

 

[Pikaman]

Notes on Mario’s page explain that there are numerous references and the likes between the two verses, but I’d like to see scans because they aren’t there and if it totals up to a bunch of Easter eggs, then it really doesn’t lead to the conclusion of “Paper Jam Paper Mario is not normal Paper Mario, because Paper Mario is actually normal Mario”

Edit: Ok, I looked through the blog post, and... really? So the evidence we have is

A haha funny reference to spinoff games in Luigi’s Diary
Enemies in two very closely related verses being in both of those verses
An out of context quote from the back of a game
And... pictures on a wall?

The “only one Mario” quote isn’t even conclusive, that could very easily just apply to mainline, not to mention that the question is about whether or not Mario is similar to Link, who I think resurrects or something? In the context of that question, it just means that each adventure is not a different Mario, not that across all iterations it is the same Mario. And “no canon so everything is canon” is such a bad argument, combined with the previously mentioned quote it would mean literally all Mario’s are one, normal Mario, Paper Mario, movie Mario, bad cgi hotel Mario, etc. Sure there’s no canon and all the Marios are the one guy right?

There’s some decent evidence in the blog, but the best it has is a line from a tie in magazine, yes, official magazine and all that, but it doesn’t take precedence over an entire damn crossover game released on a Nintendo Console.

 

[Pikaman]

I’ll not clog this thread up though, probably an issue for another thread, though it looks like every time someone brings this up in CRTs it just gets locked after little discussion because 1 or 2 people initially oppose it and then the thread dies

 

[Nero415]

Also, can I bring up how weirdly the wiki deals with Paper Mario? We treat Mario and Paper Mario as the same person and character, sure, not my preferred option but anyways. It’s just that... they’ve met as separate entities? And from the looks of it the Wiki’s explanation is... that the Paper Mario in M&L Paper Jam, is not the Paper Mario from all the other Paper Mario games.

It makes no sense, the two should be separate

Forgive me if I’m missing anything, this has just boggled my mind for a while and while a Mario CRT is up...

there’s a note on Paper Mario’s page that explains why we treat Mario and his Paper counterpart as the same person with stuff from Luigi’s diary, but a reference to a few Mario spin offs that just as easily could happen in the Paper Mario verse isn’t evidence enough to convince me the two are one and the same, when the two have literally met.

Tbf I'm 50/50 on the whole Mario and Paper Mario being the same guy. I do see the arguments on both sides. However, I do think yeah we should separate them as they do have abilities exclusive to them that the other doesn't, especially in Paper Mario's case.

Regardless, they scale to each other so it barely matters.

 

[Pikaman]

Tbf I'm 50/50 on the whole Mario and Paper Mario being the same guy. I do see the arguments on both sides. However, I do think yeah we should separate them as they do have abilities exclusive to them that the other doesn't, especially in Paper Mario's case.

Regardless, they scale to each other so it barely matters.

True for the purposes of this CRT both scale regardless of what way you look at it so

 

[Seol404]

Yeah true. Still tho. It doesn't discredit him. And many other instances where Bowser is defeated by bombs and lava is relevant when he survives those with no problems. I REALLY don't want to use other games bosses as examples but still, it's a massive double standard when you scrutinize only Mario for this problem.

PIS is still something that shouldn't be used for rating characters.

He does, besides Galaxy, there's Paper Mario surviving Sammer's Kingdom, making a Planet sized fan, making a realm with stars, and Mario scales to him. Power Stars, which besides Mario Galaxy, have made constellations in one of the Mario Party games. I'm trying to look for more those are the ones I could find.

The point is not that the bombs and lava kill him, merely that they hurt him. Which is significant enough to discredit the idea that this character supposedly has Galaxy level durability when it happens in almost every game. I don't see why you feel the need to make it out to be as though we hold a double standard here. This is a thread specifically about Mario, of course we aren't going to be talking about other verses that have this problem. Perhaps if the Mario revisions actually got passed we might be revising other verses in which this issue exists, but as it stands now we are busy with Mario so please stop bringing this up as if you have made a clever revelation behind some supposed ulterior motive we have for downgrading this verse because I must say I'm quite sick of it.

It's only plot induced stupidity if it's an offhand moment of a character being much weaker than they are normally shown, what you are arguing is that the entire plotlines of multiple games in the series have drowned in stupidity and only a couple feats across 200+ games are the only "real" feats and everything else is PIS. I don't see how you can reasonably argue that every single instance of Mario characters performing below galaxy level is PIS without trying to completely discredit the integrity of many of the games narratives.

The very same game where Mario survives the Sammer Kingdom destruction has Bowser struggle to lift a collapsing ceiling and Peach being K.Od by a long fall, you can go ahead and argue those moments are PIS sure, but when they align far more with what is typically shown, perhaps consider that surviving the Sammer Kingdom might have been PIS instead.

 

[Seol404]

As for Paper Mario being the same as Mario, perhaps that is a topic for a later thread, but right now they are treated as the same entity.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I do not see why a varies tier doesn't work for a character like Mario.

But wouldn't Bowser being hurt by lava merely be lacking heat resistance????

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Also, can I bring up how weirdly the wiki deals with Paper Mario? We treat Mario and Paper Mario as the same person and character, sure, not my preferred option but anyways. It’s just that... they’ve met as separate entities? And from the looks of it the Wiki’s explanation is... that the Paper Mario in M&L Paper Jam, is not the Paper Mario from all the other Paper Mario games.

It makes no sense, the two should be separate

Forgive me if I’m missing anything, this has just boggled my mind for a while and while a Mario CRT is up...

there’s a note on Paper Mario’s page that explains why we treat Mario and his Paper counterpart as the same person with stuff from Luigi’s diary, but a reference to a few Mario spin offs that just as easily could happen in the Paper Mario verse isn’t evidence enough to convince me the two are one and the same, when the two have literally met.

I think its especially weird how they consider Mario & Paper Mario the same when Paper Jam's existence generally completely refutes that, and Mario Party 5 exists. The main collectible entities of the Star Spirits in that game are inconspicuously in Mario Party 5, but serve a completely different role than they do in PM64, despite that being their life assigned role in that game. There is no mention of the Star Rod or anything related to where they resided in PM64, heavily indicating they're different characters than the ones in PM. If anything it just indicates that Paper Mario is a separate verse with its own rendition of the characters.

Yeah true. Still tho. It doesn't discredit him. And many other instances where Bowser is defeated by bombs and lava is relevant when he survives those with no problems. I REALLY don't want to use other games bosses as examples but still, it's a massive double standard when you scrutinize only Mario for this problem.

PIS is still something that shouldn't be used for rating characters.

He does, besides Galaxy, there's Paper Mario surviving Sammer's Kingdom, making a Planet sized fan, making a realm with stars, and Mario scales to him. Power Stars, which besides Mario Galaxy, have made constellations in one of the Mario Party games. I'm trying to look for more those are the ones I could find.

Does he even scale to the fan in terms of stats though, isn't that just essentially a summon of his.

Comparatively, Mario has nowhere near as many cosmic feats as Kirby. He has two potential Galaxy level feats from the Galaxy games, an amped multi-uni to multiversal in SPM, a Tier 5 summon in SS/CS, a very dubious uni durability from Sammer, the incredibly dubious and outlier ridden multiversal Dream Team Dreamy Bowser (which is getting downgraded based on another thread regardless), and something from MP I'm forgetting.

That's not a lot at all compared to Kirby, especially when many of them are dubious in the first place, belong to alternate series', and don't have the same slow power progression that Kirby had.

 

[Armorchompy]

The fan isn't really a tier 5 feat, characters get only hit by a very small portion of its energy and for something so strong it doesn't actually do any damage to the planet.

Regardless, I definitely agree with Seol's arguments.

 

[Confluctor]

Irrelevant, ask about it elsewhere. We have Q&A board for that

 

[Nero415]

I do not see why a varies tier doesn't work for a character like Mario.

But wouldn't Bowser being hurt by lava merely be lacking heat resistance????

Except the thing, is Bowser does have heat resistance

 

[Nero415]

I think its especially weird how they consider Mario & Paper Mario the same when Paper Jam's existence generally completely refutes that, and Mario Party 5 exists. The main collectible entities of the Star Spirits in that game are inconspicuously in Mario Party 5, but serve a completely different role than they do in PM64, despite that being their life assigned role in that game. There is no mention of the Star Rod or anything related to where they resided in PM64, heavily indicating they're different characters than the ones in PM. If anything it just indicates that Paper Mario is a separate verse with its own rendition of the characters.

Does he even scale to the fan in terms of stats though, isn't that just essentially a summon of his.

Comparatively, Mario has nowhere near as many cosmic feats as Kirby. He has two potential Galaxy level feats from the Galaxy games, an amped multi-uni to multiversal in SPM, a Tier 5 summon in SS/CS, a very dubious uni durability from Sammer, the incredibly dubious and outlier ridden multiversal Dream Team Dreamy Bowser (which is getting downgraded based on another thread regardless), and something from MP I'm forgetting.

That's not a lot at all compared to Kirby, especially when many of them are dubious in the first place, belong to alternate series', and don't have the same slow power progression that Kirby had.

Honestly I dunno if he does, but you could still say Planet level summons or something like that

It's true Kirby shows more cosmic feats than Mario. But I'd like to point out Sammer's kingdom isn't dubious at all. It shows the gang blatantly surviving it. Dreamy Bowser I agree, though downgrades could make it usable but I'm not sure. Mario Party has feats that I might look into but I'm not too sure of using Mario Party due to the whole "Rule of Fun" itnhas as a theme.

True it ain't a lot, but only a few are really dubious. Also, there are some arguments against Kirby's cosmic feats but let's save that for another time.

 

[Armorchompy]

Being a certain tier in durability should guarantee you a certain level of heat resistance so it doesn't really matter, it's an antifeat

 

[Nero415]

The fan isn't really a tier 5 feat, characters get only hit by a very small portion of its energy and for something so strong it doesn't actually do any damage to the planet.

Regardless, I definitely agree with Seol's arguments.

It was still Planet sized. And I think it moved the Planet around but I'll have to look into that again.

 

[Nero415]

Being a certain tier in durability should guarantee you a certain level of heat resistance so it doesn't really matter, it's an antifeat

It's not but okay

 

[Nero415]

The point is not that the bombs and lava kill him, merely that they hurt him. Which is significant enough to discredit the idea that this character supposedly has Galaxy level durability when it happens in almost every game. I don't see why you feel the need to make it out to be as though we hold a double standard here. This is a thread specifically about Mario, of course we aren't going to be talking about other verses that have this problem. Perhaps if the Mario revisions actually got passed we might be revising other verses in which this issue exists, but as it stands now we are busy with Mario so please stop bringing this up as if you have made a clever revelation behind some supposed ulterior motive we have for downgrading this verse because I must say I'm quite sick of it.

It's only plot induced stupidity if it's an offhand moment of a character being much weaker than they are normally shown, what you are arguing is that the entire plotlines of multiple games in the series have drowned in stupidity and only a couple feats across 200+ games are the only "real" feats and everything else is PIS. I don't see how you can reasonably argue that every single instance of Mario characters performing below galaxy level is PIS without trying to completely discredit the integrity of many of the games narratives.

The very same game where Mario survives the Sammer Kingdom destruction has Bowser struggle to lift a collapsing ceiling and Peach being K.Od by a long fall, you can go ahead and argue those moments are PIS sure, but when they align far more with what is typically shown, perhaps consider that surviving the Sammer Kingdom might have been PIS instead.

I mean Bowser routinely survived lava in multiple games. Yeah he gets defeated but that's the equivalent of dunking someone in a pool of water or in the ocean. As for the bombs, besides being gameplay, they're stuff he survives a lot in games. I say that because it's like you think Mario is the only verse with this problem. A

Because most of the examples of "anti-feats" are shit characters have constantly survived.

Lifting strength is different from dura/AP, and Bowser has lifted heavier stuff, like literally entire islands in BIS. And do you know how many characters get "KOed" by long falls? I think that barely matters when in other games, the cast as constantly survived long falls.

 

[Nero415]

Also, here's this, specifically in this section.

Mario: World of Misconceptions

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

 

[RethPo]

There should be a blog for listing marios feats from tier 8 to 4 (9 is pointless). I think tier 4 has 2 or 3, and 3 just had the grand star thing, dunno about 5 though.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's not but okay

Do you seriously expect to say "actually no" and get people to agree with you?

I mean Bowser routinely survived lava in multiple games. Yeah he gets defeated but that's the equivalent of dunking someone in a pool of water or in the ocean.

Except he's clearly hurt by its heat.

As for the bombs, besides being gameplay, they're stuff he survives a lot in games. I say that because it's like you think Mario is the only verse with this problem.

Stop bringing up other verses, like four other people have told you to, you're just making the same arguments with zero thought behind them.

Because most of the examples of "anti-feats" are shit characters have constantly survived.

And been hurt by nonetheless.

And do you know how many characters get "KOed" by long falls?

stoooooop

the cast as constantly survived long falls.

(and been hurt by them)

 

[Nero415]

There should be a blog for listing marios feats from tier 8 to 4 (9 is pointless). I think tier 4 has 2 or 3, and 3 just had the grand star thing, dunno about 5 though.

Yeah this I agree with

 

[Nero415]

Do you seriously expect to say "actually no" and get people to agree with you?

Except he's clearly hurt by its heat.

Stop bringing up other verses, like four other people have told you to, you're just making the same arguments with zero thought behind them.

And been hurt by nonetheless.

stoooooop

(and been hurt by them)

I wasn't it's pretty like arguing with a wall at this point, but still.

No he hasn't. He's resisted heat so many times. Him being dunked in lava doesn't even show that it hurts him as he's literally right back up for the next fight. Not to mention he's literally shown standing on lava when chasing Mario. It is the equivalent of dunking someone in a pool.

My guy, I'm trying not too, but with this scrutiny, it's hard not to bring up other series.

No, they've either barely been damaged or not hurt at all.

It's literally a common feat/instance, what do you mean stop

No they haven't. The most they have been is knocked out for a tiny bit. And most of the long falls are usually caused by something that hits that first.

 

[Armorchompy]

Also, here's this, specifically in this section.

Mario: World of Misconceptions

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Yeah that's a pretty good blog that has absolutely nothing to do with my sandbox and debunks a couple of fallacious arguments I have gone out of my way to avoid and was also made by a guy that we permabanned for several offenses of incredibly aggressive and misrepresentative treatment towards this site.

I wasn't it's pretty like arguing with a wall at this point, but still.

And still no arguments were made.

No he hasn't. He's resisted heat so many times. Him being dunked in lava doesn't even show that it hurts him as he's literally right back up for the next fight.

Him being dunked in lava and literally screaming or leaping out of it writhing in pain doesn't show that it hurts him?

My guy, I'm trying not too, but with this scrutiny, it's hard not to bring up other series.

Well, keep trying, cause I'm gonna ignore any argument that's just "lol what about [series]"

No, they've either barely been damaged or not hurt at all.

Refer to literally every single example in my sandbox.

It's literally a common feat/instance, what do you mean stop

The fact that it's common doesn't mean it loses all validity

No they haven't. The most they have been is knocked out for a tiny bit.

Oh yeah, this galaxy busting character definitely should be getting knocked out or hurt by a 9-B fall, it's not an anti-feat because it doesn't kill them see.

And most of the long falls are usually caused by something that hits that first.

And is visibly never what causes the damage, at least in the examples I've included. You're either purposefully or accidentally still misinterpreting my sandbox and honestly it's been getting pretty tiring. All of your arguments are either complete non-arguments or I have addressed already.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Could we please slow down here, I still don't have time to compile; as I said either Sunday night for me, or sometime Monday would be a better start for me. Also, I'd appreciate if we tried to avoid promoting bad blood with other communities banned or not. Not telling anyone in particular, just leaving that out as a community reference.

 

[Armorchompy]

Could we please slow down here, I still don't have time to compile; as I said either Sunday night for me, or sometime Monday would be a better start for me. Also, I'd appreciate if we tried to avoid promoting bad blood with other communities banned or not. Not telling anyone in particular, just leaving that out as a community reference.

Considering Impress' thread would probably take precedence over this one, and she's told me it should happen within a week or two, I should probably just lock this. And I'm not really trying to start anything, it's just factual that he was banned for those reasons.

 

[Nero415]

Yeah that's a pretty good blog that has absolutely nothing to do with my sandbox and debunks a couple of fallacious arguments I have gone out of my way to avoid and was also made by a guy that we permabanned for several offenses of incredibly aggressive and misrepresentative treatment towards this site.

And still no arguments were made.

Him being dunked in lava and literally screaming or leaping out of it writhing in pain doesn't show that it hurts him?

Well, keep trying, cause I'm gonna ignore any argument that's just "lol what about [series]"

Refer to literally every single example in my sandbox.

The fact that it's common doesn't mean it loses all validity

Oh yeah, this galaxy busting character definitely should be getting knocked out or hurt by a 9-B fall, it's not an anti-feat because it doesn't kill them see.

And is visibly never what causes the damage, at least in the examples I've included. You're either purposefully or accidentally still misinterpreting my sandbox and honestly it's been getting pretty tiring. All of your arguments are either complete non-arguments or I have addressed already.

The blog literally debunks a lot of the anti-feats you claimed. Most of the stuff it said were literally shit you said on your sandbox blog. And tbf, I don't blame him for being angry towards this site and what's really misrepresentative? I'm sure a lot of his frustrations are common criticisms of this site.

That was only in New Super Mario Bros. DS. Other games likely show him trying to swim out aggressively or just him falling into the lava and being back up later.

Once again being arrogant, but what's new/

I watched them, it literally looked like they barely got hurt or temporarily knocked out at best. This stuff is common for cartoony series like Mario.

It kinda does tbh

Gee, it's like y'all forget writers aren't making these shit with VS in their mind.

They sometimes do actually. Most of the shit I'm arguing are just literally shit that can be argued against any anti-feat. Stop acting like you're all fact.

 

[Nero415]

Oh and imma leave this here. As examples of some stuff that could argue against the anti-feats

 

[PrinceofPein]

Oh and imma leave this here. As examples of some stuff that could argue against the anti-feats

Did you actually read what you sent?
You said these stuffs can argue against the anti-feats but literally almost all this feats here are tier 8 and tier 9 and I think one possibly tier 7 if calculated.

So how is that supposed to help keep the tier 3?

You do know the difference between tier 7 and tier 3 is in quadrillions? Or you don’t understand what the OP is saying??

There are consistent tier 7 to tier 9 feats, which is way less than the tier 3 that they are currently rated as.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Bringing up other series that would need to be downgraded the same way is a legitimate argument. It's calling out blatant hypocrisy, and how only franchises like Mario are affected by this because they're simply bigger and more noticeable

 

[Armorchompy]

Bringing up other series that would need to be downgraded the same way is a legitimate argument. It's calling out blatant hypocrisy, and how only franchises like Mario are affected by this because they're simply bigger and more noticeable

Cool, feel free to revise any verse based on similar context, you have my full support. Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to revise every single verse, and cnanot be expected to. Will ignore arguments of this kind from now on.

Nero, you are posting entire, very long blogs that don't really counteract mine at all and to be quite frank I am starting to think you have not read them, and I would very kindly ask you to stop doing it because you waste a lot of my time with things that barely relate to the subject at hand.

The blog literally debunks a lot of the anti-feats you claimed. Most of the stuff it said were literally shit you said on your sandbox blog.

No... it isn't. I literally mention basically nothing of what it includes.

That was only in New Super Mario Bros. DS. Other games likely show him trying to swim out aggressively or just him falling into the lava and being back up later.

Gee i wonder why he would ever try to swim out of lava aggressively while looking incredibly discomforted by the situation.

I watched them, it literally looked like they barely got hurt or temporarily knocked out at best. This stuff is common for cartoony series like Mario.

Addressed in blog already, will ignore from now on.

It kinda does tbh

Non-argument.

Gee, it's like y'all forget writers aren't making these shit with VS in their mind.

"Writers aren't making this shit with VS in their mind which is why we should ignore all anti-feats and base ratings on the absolute highest ends"

I don't care for what purpose they were written, we have a specific set of standards and we apply them to everything. You have made this argument several times already, with literally zero variation.

They sometimes do actually.

Show them. Show me a specific instance of that happening or stop mentioning it.

Most of the shit I'm arguing are just literally shit that can be argued against any anti-feat. Stop acting like you're all fact.

I'll stop "acting like I'm all fact" when you make actual arguments against mine instead of just trying to appeal to a vague "common" sense that this wiki doesn't subscribe to.