Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating

[The_Pink_God]

Well, there's not much of an evidence of power growth in Mario

Is this good enough?

 

[Armorchompy]

Is this good enough?

No, it's indicative of canon being disconnected between games. Even then it's more about roles than the characters' power level.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Well can't say I didn't try

 

[RethPo]

Rosalina does mention power stars as being able to create planets as well if that hasnt been brought up. But thats the only thing i can think of for tier 5 besides cloud dispersing in wario land

 

[AKM sama]

Considering Impress' thread would probably take precedence over this one, and she's told me it should happen within a week or two, I should probably just lock this. And I'm not really trying to start anything, it's just factual that he was banned for those reasons.

She's talked about the canon split earlier too, it is better to not wait for that thread as we don't know when it will happen, and this one deals with a different topic altogether.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Y'all often says that staggering or slightly hurting isn't enough to scale, especially for comic books. Why is it enough to be an anti feat here?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Rosalina does mention power stars as being able to create planets as well if that hasnt been brought up. But thats the only thing i can think of for tier 5 besides cloud dispersing in wario land

there was also the wario land genie creating a planet

 

[Nero415]

Did you actually read what you sent?
You said these stuffs can argue against the anti-feats but literally almost all this feats here are tier 8 and tier 9 and I think one possibly tier 7 if calculated.

So how is that supposed to help keep the tier 3?

You do know the difference between tier 7 and tier 3 is in quadrillions? Or you don’t understand what the OP is saying??

There are consistent tier 7 to tier 9 feats, which is way less than the tier 3 that they are currently rated as.

I did. This post wasn't supposed to help keep Tier 3, it was just mainly their to argue against all the anti-feats.

 

[Armorchompy]

Y'all often says that staggering or slightly hurting isn't enough to scale, especially for comic books. Why is it enough to be an anti feat here?

DC/Marvel have a specific, unique set of scaling rules, do not compare them to other verses, not to mention most characters there tend to hold back their power.

Not to mention, basically everything I've listed is at the very minimum causes screams of pain or leaves characters dazed/visibly hurt, that would be considered viable under almost all circumstances

there was also the wario land genie creating a planet

No UES. Planet is also very small.

 

[Dust_Collector]

No UES. Planet is also very small.

Or maybe Wario is just very big

 

[Nero415]

Nero, you are posting entire, very long blogs that don't really counteract mine at all and to be quite frank I am starting to think you have not read them, and I would very kindly ask you to stop doing it because you waste a lot of my time with things that barely relate to the subject at hand.

No... it isn't. I literally mention basically nothing of what it includes.

Gee i wonder why he would ever try to swim out of lava aggressively while looking incredibly discomforted by the situation.

Addressed in blog already, will ignore from now on.

Non-argument.

"Writers aren't making this shit with VS in their mind which is why we should ignore all anti-feats and base ratings on the absolute highest ends"

I don't care for what purpose they were written, we have a specific set of standards and we apply them to everything. You have made this argument several times already, with literally zero variation.

Show them. Show me a specific instance of that happening or stop mentioning it.

I'll stop "acting like I'm all fact" when you make actual arguments against mine instead of just trying to appeal to a vague "common" sense that this wiki doesn't subscribe to.

I clearly ******* did read them. Why else would would I post them smart guy? Also, stop acting like your blog is so immune to being debunked

It literally does. It literally mentions general anti-feats you listed such as getting hurt from falling, Bowser almost "dying" to a castle falling.

Gee I dunno, maybe he's angrily trying to make a last attempt to kill Mario but failing just because?

Cool whatever

It is an argument

Yeah, isn't that what VS debaters do? And it's still an argument because writers aren't VS Debaters.

And honestly, I am trying to make arguments, and yes I am using common sense as a basis. But your head's too far up your ass to listen. And love how you basically admitted to being a big ol know it all. Then again, what can I expect from this place.

 

[Nero415]

No UES. Planet is also very small.

Oh gee, I don't know, maybe it has to do with graphic limitations?

 

[Nero415]

Bringing up other series that would need to be downgraded the same way is a legitimate argument. It's calling out blatant hypocrisy, and how only franchises like Mario are affected by this because they're simply bigger and more noticeable

******* THANK YOU

 

[Nero415]

Also instead of using anti-feats solely to spite downgrade the series why don't y'all maybe research or look into the series more for feats that balance/cancel the "anti-feats" out.

 

[Armorchompy]

I clearly ******* did read them. Why else would would I post them smart guy? Also, stop acting like your blog is so immune to being debunked

It's not immune to being debunked, that doesn't mean any attempt at doing so will pass.

It literally does. It literally mentions general anti-feats you listed such as getting hurt from falling, Bowser almost "dying" to a castle falling.

And it does that by trying to disprove them with feats, which doesn't work here given that i have brought way more anti-feats than feats

Gee I dunno, maybe he's angrily trying to make a last attempt to kill Mario but failing just because?

No, he's pretty clearly in pain.

Cool whatever

It is an argument

Peak debating

Yeah, isn't that what VS debaters do?

No? Not even close, we try to find accurate power levels.

And honestly, I am trying to make arguments, and yes I am using common sense as a basis. But your head's too far up your ass to listen. And love how you basically admitted to being a big ol know it all. Then again, what can I expect from this place.

Brother you have been insulting me (and this entire community) for a dozen or so posts, I don't think you get to speak on me getting mildly snippy.

Oh gee, I don't know, maybe it has to do with graphic limitations?

Prove it or no argument

 

[Armorchompy]

Also instead of using anti-feats why don't y'all actually researching the series for feats that balance/cancel the "anti-feats" out.

Well you're the one trying to debunk the blog, so why don't you do that? Because I actually have a pretty decent idea of the feats that exist, and I don't think they're enough.

 

[Nero415]

It's not immune to being debunked, that doesn't mean any attempt at doing so will pass.

And it does that by trying to disprove them with feats, which doesn't work here given that i have brought way more anti-feats than feats

No, he's pretty clearly in pain.

Peak debating

No? Not even close, we try to find accurate power levels.

Brother you have been insulting me (and this entire community) for a dozen or so posts, I don't think you get to speak on me getting mildly snippy.

Prove it or no argument

Yeah, I'm pretty sure will pass by people who are smarter and more credible nonetheless.

Yeah because the feats that were presented DO disprove them. Most of the anti-feats you brought up were essentially addressed in a general sense in the blogs

He's really isn't. Especially where many times, he gets back up without problem, many times within the same game.

Just gonna ignore that snide remark

Yeah something you are SO great at doing..

Yeah cause you deserve it. And besides, you've been acting like that beforehand from what I've seen.

THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT IT IS. It's a literal Game Boy game. They're obviously not gonna feature it as accurately sized. It doesn't have the graphics too. Limitations are a thing. Anyway you could argue to Genie creating the Planet is Reality Warping but eh.

 

[Nero415]

Well you're the one trying to debunk the blog, so why don't you do that? Because I actually have a pretty decent idea of the feats that exist, and I don't think they're enough.

I have been trying to do that with threads that bring up alot of feats. Typing them all out would just take a lot of time so that's why I resort to blog posts.

 

[Nero415]

Also I find it very suspicious that you're focusing solely on anti-feats as a basis for the character's powers. Are you sure you don't have any bias towards them?

 

[Armorchompy]

And besides, you've been acting like that beforehand from what I've seen.

Since you insulted me thrice in one post, I have reported you in the RVR thread. If you believe your behavior in this thread was fair, you should defend yourself there.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

DC/Marvel have a specific, unique set of scaling rules, do not compare them to other verses, not to mention most characters there tend to hold back their power.

Not to mention, basically everything I've listed is at the very minimum causes screams of pain or leaves characters dazed/visibly hurt, that would be considered viable under almost all circumstances

No UES. Planet is also very small.

UES?

 

[Nero415]

Since you insulted me thrice in one post, I have reported you in the RVR thread. If you believe your behavior in this thread was fair, you should defend yourself there.

My guy you deadass just reported me? Fine I'll go there

 

[Armorchompy]

UES?

Universal energy system.

 

[Oleggator]

Universal energy system.

Out of curiosity what's definition of it?

At least on that case.

 

[Armorchompy]

Out of curiosity what's definition of it?

At least on that case.

It's the classic "I do this feat and my other stats scale to that"

regardless, this is fairly tertiary, especially since we split Wario games' tiering.

 

[RethPo]

A few of the stuff on the blog seems more like the characters getting suprised or knocked over than genuinely hurt but ah well.

If this thread is gonna downgrade the tier 3 and 4 ratings, the cast is oc gonna need a specific new tier.

 

[Seol404]

Bringing up other series that would need to be downgraded the same way is a legitimate argument. It's calling out blatant hypocrisy, and how only franchises like Mario are affected by this because they're simply bigger and more noticeable

Perhaps consider that we have discussed the possibility of revising other verses that we see these issues in sometime in the future. I would also ask you to consider that we don't have infinite time on our hands and are thus incapable of researching every single verse out there. I might even beg you to ponder the thought that we may not be knowledgeable enough of other verses to address issues like this if they do exist.

We're not omniscient nor do we have the free time to work on dozens of revisions all at once. I'm not going to continue addressing this in the future since it's a non-argument.

 

[Seol404]

I clearly ******* did read them. Why else would would I post them smart guy? Also, stop acting like your blog is so immune to being debunked

The reason he may come off as acting as if his blog is immune to being debunked is that you have failed to make any point that actually debunks it.

 

[Violatas]

Can't say I necessarily agree with the downgrade but Nero you need to chill.
Insulting someone isn't really doing your position any favors my guy.
At least actually attack the arguments and not the OP

 

[Eficiente]

I too agree with Galaxy level being wrong.

On the anti-feats listed that are too low: Those should still be listed simply to know they exist, it doesn't matter if we don't use them later because they're too low next to consistent feats. If reasons exist to dismiss them then sure, acknowledge those along the low anti-feats in a list, but one would find that those reasons to dismiss anti-feats either "should apply", "should maybe apply", or "could apply in an unlikely manner", all depending on one's perspective.

On Mario being cartoonish, that's an issue as the way the wiki has cartoon characters is mostly pretty bad and nonsensical, a lot of people will appeal to the generosity (nonsense) we allow for cartoon characters to believe something similar should be done with Mario.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Bringing up other series that would need to be downgraded the same way is a legitimate argument. It's calling out blatant hypocrisy, and how only franchises like Mario are affected by this because they're simply bigger and more noticeable

But Mario also consistently gets away with much more than other franchises. There's not really any hypocrisy in it getting a downgrade here, and if anything, it getting a downgrade could potentially lead to a dominant effect of other verses having stats made more fitting.

And again there's the age old statement of: If these verses have such blatant problems that Mario also does: Make a CRT to have them adjusted. If the evidence is strong it can go through.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Is this good enough?

Honestly, depending on how you skew this, wouldn't the statement of the Mario characters being a "troupe of actors" completely ******* destroy and invalidate all the scaling and feats of the series via them all being... plays?

 

[y3p_owo]

Well, there's not much of an evidence of power growth in Mario

(Late) Here, here, Mario being able to defeat Royal Sticker Bowser first phase in Sticker Star when he couldn't even touch him without getting defeat in the beginning, and Mario being able to fight against an amped Star Rod Bowser when he originally gets one tapped by him in the beginning, and this was before he used the Star Sprites against Bowser. Also Lubba mentions that Bowser was getting stronger after the second encounter with him, meaning that Mario had to get stronger as well to match him.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

(Late) Here, here, Mario being able to defeat Royal Sticker Bowser first phase in Sticker Star when he couldn't even touch him without getting defeat in the beginning, and Mario being able to fight against an amped Star Rod Bowser when he originally gets one tapped by him in the beginning, and this was before he used the Star Sprites against Bowser. Also Lubba mentions that Bowser was getting stronger after the second encounter with him, meaning that Mario had to get stronger as well to match him.

These are individual examples of him getting stronger to match someone.... in individual games. Not across the ENTIRE FRANCHISE like Kirby does. Again, in the first couple Kirby games he was only around moon/planet level, midway through the series he was consistently in the solar system range, and later on in the series was consistently galaxy and uni to uni+ range. Mario doesn't have that same consistent series wide escalation, which is what people were talking about.

 

[Eficiente]

Often times when the veracity of Mario stats are brought up Kirby is used as an example. This is always completely invalid as that series gives consistent importance to the characters' power, strength and achievements as warriors, it has as a whole a hollow, DBZ-like obsession with that as some of its defining characteristics. Even if the higher feats didn't exist and everyone was 5-B, it's just built differently.

 

[Armorchompy]

(Late) Here, here, Mario being able to defeat Royal Sticker Bowser first phase in Sticker Star when he couldn't even touch him without getting defeat in the beginning, and Mario being able to fight against an amped Star Rod Bowser when he originally gets one tapped by him in the beginning, and this was before he used the Star Sprites against Bowser. Also Lubba mentions that Bowser was getting stronger after the second encounter with him, meaning that Mario had to get stronger as well to match him.

I think it's true that the RPGs typically portray a growth in power (I think PM64 does this notably too), the issue is that this often ends up being inconsistent with the series at large. Say, someone like Kamek or Peach, or the Koopalings, never really go under the same training or experience that would cause Mario or Bowser to become stronger while ultimately remaining on the same relative power level to them. I recall there being other contradictions too.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Fine, I'll try to give my own cents here, so here it goes nothing.

I fully agree with a Varies tier, as we can see from Miyamoto's claims, Mario is the same one across games, and all the characters are like actors playing different roles, depending on the plot of the game they're in.

And yes, role is heavily hinted to power levels as well. If the game requires Mario to be barely Tier 8, he'd be that weak. If the plot instead requires Mario to be able to face cosmic entities, then he'd be on that level instead.

We have already things like Super Sonic, Timmy Turner or Ed who are already treated like this, and I'm not saying that they should be downgraded, but Mario characters should have this treatment too.

I think it's true that the RPGs typically portray a growth in power (I think PM64 does this notably too), the issue is that this often ends up being inconsistent with the series at large. Say, someone like Kamek or Peach, or the Koopalings, never really go under the same training or experience that would cause Mario or Bowser to become stronger while ultimately remaining on the same relative power level to them. I recall there being other contradictions too.

This can easily be explained still from the fact that the plot of the game requires Mario to grow in power to face his enemies, while in other games it requires said power level to be the same through all the story.

Mario has definitely not a stable power level and it completely depends on the game he's in, with Miyamoto backing this as well. No need for an explicit explanation when we see this in front of our eyes all the time since decades.

Edit: Splitting between games would also be extremely impratical other than contradicting Miyamoto's words, I don't see any reason why it should be done.

 

[Oleggator]

So far I gonna lean to Varies as well, at least as an compromise option.

 

[RethPo]

If this thread is gonna downgrade the tier 3 and 4 ratings, the cast is oc gonna need a specific new tier.

Bump. One thing to note though is that sunshine explicitly takes place after 64 and bowser jr was completely new to mario and peach in that game. So any game with bowser jr in it can safely be assumed to take place after sunshine and 64.

Not sure what marios low end of varies is though if not just scaling to goombas. Yoshi beating giant baby bowser or any other feat there would be a good reference since its the canonically earliest version of yoshi.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't see any reason why it should be done.

b̵e̵c̵a̵u̵s̵e̵ ̵a̵ ̵d̵e̵d̵i̵c̵a̵t̵e̵d̵ ̵p̵a̵p̵e̵r̵ ̵m̵a̵r̵i̵o̵ ̵o̵r̵ ̵m̵a̵r̵i̵o̵ ̵&̵ ̵l̵u̵i̵g̵i̵ ̵f̵i̵l̵e̵s̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵d̵a̵n̵g̵e̵r̵o̵u̵s̵l̵y̵ ̵b̵a̵s̵e̵d̵