The_Pink_God
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Is this good enough?
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Possible Mario Profile Split/Varies Rating
- Thread starter Armorchompy
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- #202
No, it's indicative of canon being disconnected between games. Even then it's more about roles than the characters' power level.
The_Pink_God
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Well can't say I didn't try
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She's talked about the canon split earlier too, it is better to not wait for that thread as we don't know when it will happen, and this one deals with a different topic altogether.
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Y'all often says that staggering or slightly hurting isn't enough to scale, especially for comic books. Why is it enough to be an anti feat here?
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there was also the wario land genie creating a planet
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I did. This post wasn't supposed to help keep Tier 3, it was just mainly their to argue against all the anti-feats.
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- #209
DC/Marvel have a specific, unique set of scaling rules, do not compare them to other verses, not to mention most characters there tend to hold back their power.
Not to mention, basically everything I've listed is at the very minimum causes screams of pain or leaves characters dazed/visibly hurt, that would be considered viable under almost all circumstances
No UES. Planet is also very small.
Dust_Collector
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I clearly ******* did read them. Why else would would I post them smart guy? Also, stop acting like your blog is so immune to being debunked
It literally does. It literally mentions general anti-feats you listed such as getting hurt from falling, Bowser almost "dying" to a castle falling.
Gee I dunno, maybe he's angrily trying to make a last attempt to kill Mario but failing just because?
Cool whatever
It is an argument
Yeah, isn't that what VS debaters do? And it's still an argument because writers aren't VS Debaters.
And honestly, I am trying to make arguments, and yes I am using common sense as a basis. But your head's too far up your ass to listen. And love how you basically admitted to being a big ol know it all. Then again, what can I expect from this place.
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Oh gee, I don't know, maybe it has to do with graphic limitations?
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******* THANK YOU
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- Thread starter
- #215
It's not immune to being debunked, that doesn't mean any attempt at doing so will pass.
And it does that by trying to disprove them with feats, which doesn't work here given that i have brought way more anti-feats than feats
No, he's pretty clearly in pain.
Peak debating
No? Not even close, we try to find accurate power levels.
Brother you have been insulting me (and this entire community) for a dozen or so posts, I don't think you get to speak on me getting mildly snippy.
Prove it or no argument
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- #216
Well you're the one trying to debunk the blog, so why don't you do that? Because I actually have a pretty decent idea of the feats that exist, and I don't think they're enough.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure will pass
Yeah because the feats that were presented DO disprove them. Most of the anti-feats you brought up were essentially addressed in a general sense in the blogs
He's really isn't. Especially where many times, he gets back up without problem, many times within the same game.
Just gonna ignore that snide remark
Yeah cause you deserve it.
THAT'S LITERALLY WHAT IT IS. It's a literal Game Boy game. They're obviously not gonna feature it as accurately sized. It doesn't have the graphics too. Limitations are a thing. Anyway you could argue to Genie creating the Planet is Reality Warping but eh.
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I have been trying to do that with threads that bring up alot of feats. Typing them all out would just take a lot of time so that's why I resort to blog posts.
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- #220
Since you insulted me thrice in one post, I have reported you in the RVR thread. If you believe your behavior in this thread was fair, you should defend yourself there.
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UES?
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My guy you deadass just reported me? Fine I'll go there
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- #223
Universal energy system.
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- #225
It's the classic "I do this feat and my other stats scale to that"
regardless, this is fairly tertiary, especially since we split Wario games' tiering.
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Perhaps consider that we have discussed the possibility of revising other verses that we see these issues in sometime in the future. I would also ask you to consider that we don't have infinite time on our hands and are thus incapable of researching every single verse out there. I might even beg you to ponder the thought that we may not be knowledgeable enough of other verses to address issues like this if they do exist.
We're not omniscient nor do we have the free time to work on dozens of revisions all at once. I'm not going to continue addressing this in the future since it's a non-argument.
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The reason he may come off as acting as if his blog is immune to being debunked is that you have failed to make any point that actually debunks it.
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I too agree with Galaxy level being wrong.
On the anti-feats listed that are too low: Those should still be listed simply to know they exist, it doesn't matter if we don't use them later because they're too low next to consistent feats. If reasons exist to dismiss them then sure, acknowledge those along the low anti-feats in a list, but one would find that those reasons to dismiss anti-feats either "should apply", "should maybe apply", or "could apply in an unlikely manner", all depending on one's perspective.
On Mario being cartoonish, that's an issue as the way the wiki has cartoon characters is mostly pretty bad and nonsensical, a lot of people will appeal to the generosity (nonsense) we allow for cartoon characters to believe something similar should be done with Mario.
On the anti-feats listed that are too low: Those should still be listed simply to know they exist, it doesn't matter if we don't use them later because they're too low next to consistent feats. If reasons exist to dismiss them then sure, acknowledge those along the low anti-feats in a list, but one would find that those reasons to dismiss anti-feats either "should apply", "should maybe apply", or "could apply in an unlikely manner", all depending on one's perspective.
On Mario being cartoonish, that's an issue as the way the wiki has cartoon characters is mostly pretty bad and nonsensical, a lot of people will appeal to the generosity (nonsense) we allow for cartoon characters to believe something similar should be done with Mario.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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But Mario also consistently gets away with much more than other franchises. There's not really any hypocrisy in it getting a downgrade here, and if anything, it getting a downgrade could potentially lead to a dominant effect of other verses having stats made more fitting.
And again there's the age old statement of: If these verses have such blatant problems that Mario also does: Make a CRT to have them adjusted. If the evidence is strong it can go through.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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Honestly, depending on how you skew this, wouldn't the statement of the Mario characters being a "troupe of actors" completely ******* destroy and invalidate all the scaling and feats of the series via them all being... plays?
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(Late) Here, here, Mario being able to defeat Royal Sticker Bowser first phase in Sticker Star when he couldn't even touch him without getting defeat in the beginning, and Mario being able to fight against an amped Star Rod Bowser when he originally gets one tapped by him in the beginning, and this was before he used the Star Sprites against Bowser. Also Lubba mentions that Bowser was getting stronger after the second encounter with him, meaning that Mario had to get stronger as well to match him.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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These are individual examples of him getting stronger to match someone.... in individual games. Not across the ENTIRE FRANCHISE like Kirby does. Again, in the first couple Kirby games he was only around moon/planet level, midway through the series he was consistently in the solar system range, and later on in the series was consistently galaxy and uni to uni+ range. Mario doesn't have that same consistent series wide escalation, which is what people were talking about.
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Often times when the veracity of Mario stats are brought up Kirby is used as an example. This is always completely invalid as that series gives consistent importance to the characters' power, strength and achievements as warriors, it has as a whole a hollow, DBZ-like obsession with that as some of its defining characteristics. Even if the higher feats didn't exist and everyone was 5-B, it's just built differently.
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I think it's true that the RPGs typically portray a growth in power (I think PM64 does this notably too), the issue is that this often ends up being inconsistent with the series at large. Say, someone like Kamek or Peach, or the Koopalings, never really go under the same training or experience that would cause Mario or Bowser to become stronger while ultimately remaining on the same relative power level to them. I recall there being other contradictions too.
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Fine, I'll try to give my own cents here, so here it goes nothing.
I fully agree with a Varies tier, as we can see from Miyamoto's claims, Mario is the same one across games, and all the characters are like actors playing different roles, depending on the plot of the game they're in.
And yes, role is heavily hinted to power levels as well. If the game requires Mario to be barely Tier 8, he'd be that weak. If the plot instead requires Mario to be able to face cosmic entities, then he'd be on that level instead.
We have already things like Super Sonic, Timmy Turner or Ed who are already treated like this, and I'm not saying that they should be downgraded, but Mario characters should have this treatment too.
Mario has definitely not a stable power level and it completely depends on the game he's in, with Miyamoto backing this as well. No need for an explicit explanation when we see this in front of our eyes all the time since decades.
Edit: Splitting between games would also be extremely impratical other than contradicting Miyamoto's words, I don't see any reason why it should be done.
I fully agree with a Varies tier, as we can see from Miyamoto's claims, Mario is the same one across games, and all the characters are like actors playing different roles, depending on the plot of the game they're in.
And yes, role is heavily hinted to power levels as well. If the game requires Mario to be barely Tier 8, he'd be that weak. If the plot instead requires Mario to be able to face cosmic entities, then he'd be on that level instead.
We have already things like Super Sonic, Timmy Turner or Ed who are already treated like this, and I'm not saying that they should be downgraded, but Mario characters should have this treatment too.
This can easily be explained still from the fact that the plot of the game requires Mario to grow in power to face his enemies, while in other games it requires said power level to be the same through all the story.
Mario has definitely not a stable power level and it completely depends on the game he's in, with Miyamoto backing this as well. No need for an explicit explanation when we see this in front of our eyes all the time since decades.
Edit: Splitting between games would also be extremely impratical other than contradicting Miyamoto's words, I don't see any reason why it should be done.
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Bump. One thing to note though is that sunshine explicitly takes place after 64 and bowser jr was completely new to mario and peach in that game. So any game with bowser jr in it can safely be assumed to take place after sunshine and 64.
Not sure what marios low end of varies is though if not just scaling to goombas. Yoshi beating giant baby bowser or any other feat there would be a good reference since its the canonically earliest version of yoshi.
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