Scarlet Witch vs Odin: Wanda's Finale to Become the Strongest 6-C in the MCU (2-8-6)

[Valiant_Abyss]

Grace IG.

 

[Dalesean027]

Why is he faster

Prime Odin Scales above Hela who casually swatted away one of the fastest attacks in the verse (from awakened thor)

I don't doubt that if things get hectic Wanda would set up runes however it's not like Agatha where Wanda's not being attacked at all or had to worry about taking damage from beams or whatever, Odin's here and knows how much of a threat she is probably the moment they touch on the battlefield and as you said I doubt he would be unaware of her intentions and let her just set up runes without either attacking her or destroying the surface she tries to place her runs on

I say Odin takes this and combats wanda with high prejudice and caution to eliminate her as quickly as possible without letting her do anything really big that would potentially turn the tide

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Surtur doesn't scale above Hela in speed.

 

[Dalesean027]

Surtur doesn't scale above Hela in speed.

Ah just in AP got it, let me fix that

 

[ArkhamDC06]

It takes 10 seconds to set them up. Odin doesn’t do anything but shoot lasers every single time he fights.

So because we don't see him doing anything else means he can't do anything else or won't? Also no, the runes need to be casted in advance, it doesn't take 10 seconds to set them up.

I mean …… Dorm exists and his only “weakness” is getting fed up with killing the same guy for a century. IG Thanos’ was closing his hand but he just beat up everyone anyway.

That's the point. They have at least one weakness it's possible to exploit so they can be beaten or at least make the fight interesting. It's like with Gilgamesh from Fate being a simply good close-combat fighter whereas other Servants are excellent and being a ridiculously arrogant jerk who would rather die than going all-out to balance the fact that he's so disgustingly powerful it's just absurd.

Not really, the runes were set up before Wanda started pouring her power into Agatha who wasn’t doing anything by that point besides flying (which was a spell already in effect) and the absorption (which is passive). Odin will be aware runes are being placed but since he can’t read minds, he won’t actually know what’s going on until they are basically done, which only takes 10 seconds (from their MHS+ perspective) anyway.

Sorry but where exactly is it stated that Thanos alone is stronger than Surtur? Cause the last I checked, I've never red that anywhere.

Not really a large margin at all. Thanos just walking around boxing people up is considered the greatest threat the Avengers ever faced which makes him > Surtur and Hela who Odin scales to in AP. Wanda > Thanos. Thanos is also stated to have “incomparable strength” when bullying Hulk in IW. Not saying he scales above the likes of Dorm he does but given the people he is butchering in that moment were all there to witness Hela and Surtur, context dictates that Thanos > them.

Again, where exactly is stated/shown/said that Thanos without stones is above Surt in terms of raw strength? Cause I have GIGANTIC doubts about him being stronger than the Fire Giant that destroyed Asgard with one strike and treated Hulk as even more as a mosquitoe bite than Thanos himself did. Sorry but this, I just can't believe unless there's absolute statement about Thanos > Surtur.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Why is he faster when his only scaling is either against peeps that Phase 2 Thor can fight or to Hela who Ragnarok Thor kept up with. The IW novel has base Thanos blitzing that Thor and beating him up before he could react or do anything. Wanda = Thanos in speed. Also why can’t she blitz with her powers when she did it to Agatha who is equal in speed normally? 4:40

Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.

Except Wanda just …… dodges whatever he sends her way.

And Odin can just keep moving his laser towards her. Plus im pretty sure shes been shown to try and block/contest attacks at time.

It takes 10 seconds to set them up. Odin doesn’t do anything but shoot lasers every single time he fights.

10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.

Not really a large margin at all. Thanos just walking around boxing people up is considered the greatest threat the Avengers ever faced which makes him > Surtur and Hela who Odin scales to in AP. Wanda > Thanos. Thanos is also stated to have “incomparable strength” when bullying Hulk in IW. Not saying he scales above the likes of Dorm he does but given the people he is butchering in that moment were all there to witness Hela and Surtur, context dictates that Thanos > them.

The Avengers never faced full powered Surtur, Thor didnt fight him and Hulk hit him once which barely staggered him.

None of them actually fought him, only 2 Avengers actually saw him (One was Hulk) and all they saw from him was one attack directly after he was revived which one shot Hela and Asgard.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.

Thor was keeping up with her fine in the throne room. He couldn't beat her because she was too strong, not cause she was worlds faster than him. Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?

10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.

Agatha scales to the same speed feat as Odin.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?

Dunno, though he did catch Storm Breaker once.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Thor barely kept up with her and had someone else beat her cause he couldn’t. Hela was able casually catch Mjölnir which Thanos didnt do. Plus scales above them.

And Thanos is stated to be move faster than Thor believed possible. That means he is even faster than Hela so Odin at best is relative to Hela. Thanos caught Stormbreaker from behind. That’s a better feat than Hela catching the hammer she clearly say coming her way.

Don’t misrepresent the Thor vs Hela fight. He had Loki bring back Surtur cuz she was stronger than them and wouldn’t die as long as Asgard still existed. Surtur is both stronger than Hela and was able to destroy Asgard. Speed wasn’t the issue when Thor already kept up with her and tagged her.

And Odin can just keep moving his laser towards her. Plus im pretty sure shes been shown to try and block/contest attacks at time.

And she just teleports. Odin also doesn’t shoot a continuous beam, he shoots single blasts.

10 seconds is a long time for people this fast.

10 secs of cinematic timing. That’s why I said it’s 10 secs from their MHS+ perspective.

The Avengers never faced full powered Surtur, Thor didnt fight him and Hulk hit him once which barely staggered him.

“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.

None of them actually fought him, only 2 Avengers actually saw him (One was Hulk) and all they saw from him was one attack directly after he was revived which one shot Hela and Asgard.

You are ignoring the fact that it’s an omniscient narrator saying Thanos > anything they have faced before and that his strength is “incomparable”.

So because we don't see him doing anything else means he can't do anything else or won't?

Yes. Prove he will do any of the other stuff in a fight. Or else I can just say Wanda plot manips Odin from the start. I don’t because she doesn’t do that. In character exists for a reason so stop repeating your claims and prove them.

Also no, the runes need to be casted in advance, it doesn't take 10 seconds to set them up.

Everything needs to be set up in advance but Wanda just threw her TK in the aerial fight with Agatha and set up the runes just like that. It only took time because it had to travel to the barrier of the town.

That's the point. They have at least one weakness it's possible to exploit so they can be beaten or at least make the fight interesting.

Those aren’t weaknesses? Dorm’s isn’t anyway. Strange just outlasted Dorm’s patience. That’s like saying Thanos overpowering Hulk means overpowering Hulk is a weakness for Hulk. The closing the hand is a weakness of the Gauntlet, not Thanos.

It's like with Gilgamesh from Fate being a simply good close-combat fighter whereas other Servants are excellent and being a ridiculously arrogant jerk who would rather die than going all-out to balance the fact that he's so disgustingly powerful it's just absurd.

Imagine thinking Gilgamesh could lose, zashu.

Sorry but where exactly is it stated that Thanos alone is stronger than Surtur? Cause the last I checked, I've never red that anywhere.
Again, where exactly is stated/shown/said that Thanos without stones is above Surt in terms of raw strength? Cause I have GIGANTIC doubts about him being stronger than the Fire Giant that destroyed Asgard with one strike and treated Hulk as even more as a mosquitoe bite than Thanos himself did. Sorry but this, I just can't believe unless there's absolute statement about Thanos > Surtur.

Lemme go find the scan. I’ll edit them back into this post when I do.

Edit: Incomparable strength and moved faster than Thor believed possible.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.

No, he made him flinch his head for a sec and then Surtur just grabbed him with his fingers and threw him away like he was nothing because he was only phazed by this. Just like he was barely phazed by Hela impaling him with large spikes and Hela > Awakened Thor who overpowered Hulk.

Yes. Prove he will do any of the other stuff in a fight. Or else I can just say Wanda plot manips Odin from the start. I don’t because she doesn’t do that. In character exists for a reason so stop repeating your claims and prove them.

Yeah, in-character exists and THIS IS in character for Odin to do that because we're talking about prime Odin, a ruthless tyrant and conqueror who established a gigantic empire through violent wars and his objective was to win. This is totally in-character for him to do that. And even after that, his objective was to rpotect the Nine Realms and he's ready to do everything toachieve this so this is in-character in every case.

Everything needs to be set up in advance but Wanda just threw her TK in the aerial fight with Agatha and set up the runes just like that. It only took time because it had to travel to the barrier of the town.

Where is it said that Wanda made the runes out of thin air in a second like this?

Those aren’t weaknesses? Dorm’s isn’t anyway. Strange just outlasted Dorm’s patience. That’s like saying Thanos overpowering Hulk means overpowering Hulk is a weakness for Hulk. The closing the hand is a weakness of the Gauntlet, not Thanos.

Hum, yes these are weaknesses and that's the point. Wanda being a glass cannon is her weakness so she isn't an Anos-like character who simply runs over everything.

Lemme go find the scan. I’ll edit them back into this post when I do.

Ok. I'm willing to accept this but on the condition of having a clear basis for it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

No, he made him flinch his head for a sec and then Surtur just grabbed him with his fingers and threw him away like he was nothing.

I’m fine with dropping this since we interpret the scene differently.

Yeah, in-character exists and THIS IS in character for Odin to do that because we're talking about prime Odin, a ruthless tyrant and conqueror who established a gigantic empire through violent wars and his objective was to win. This is totally in-character for him to do that. And even after that, his objective was to rpotect the Nine Realms and he's ready to do everything toachieve this so this is in-character in every case.

No, no it isn’t. You haven’t proved anything. Just said that Odin is an ape in his Prime and started a bunch of wars. This doesn’t mean he disintegrates people in fights. We see him in two fights and this never happens.

Where is it said that Wanad made the runes out of thin air in a second like this? And even then, it took time to take effects and this is more than enough for Odin, who has a superior AP, to deal with her.

It isn’t. We see her getting slapped around and trying multiple ways of beating Agatha and all of them failing. It isn’t until the aerial battle where we see Wanda sending her blasts out there and then once the smoke clears, the runes are revealed. Wanda doesn’t interact with the barrier prior to this besides opening it to let people out where we can she is focused on doing that specifically. No runes being drawn or appearing on the very visible barriers in the background.

Hum, yes these are weaknesses and that's the point. Wanda being a glass cannon is her weakness so she isn't an Anos-like character who simply runs over everything.

I mean we see her tanking her own blast so I dunno what to tell you.

Anos Wanda will appear in MoM

Ok. I'm willing to accept this but on the condition of having a clear basis for it.

Linked the scan above. Narrator says Thanos has incomparable strength when he is overpowering and beating down Hulk.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I’m fine with dropping this since we interpret the scene differently.

No, no it isn’t. You haven’t proved anything. Just said that Odin is an ape in his Prime and started a bunch of wars. This doesn’t mean he disintegrates people in fights. We see him in two fights and this never happens.

Don't what to say to you other than what I said earlier. And for me, a bloodthirsty tyrant seeking to conquer realms and establish an empire to dominate the universe (sort of) is exactly the type of character I think about when I hear "has the power to desintegrate bodies".

It isn’t. We see her getting slapped around and trying multiple ways of beating Agatha and all of them failing. It isn’t until the aerial battle where we see Wanda sending her blasts out there and then once the smoke clears, the runes are revealed. Wanda doesn’t interact with the barrier prior to this besides opening it to let people out where we can she is focused on doing that specifically. No runes being drawn or appearing on the very visible barriers in the background.

Have to rewatch the episode to be sure honestly, the series give us the impression the runes must be set up in advance.

I mean we see her tanking her own blast so I dunno what to tell you.

Anos Wanda will appear in MoM

True. Don't know what to think about this either.

Also can't wait to see what happens in MoM.

Linked the scan above. Narrator says Thanos has incomparable strength when he is overpowering and beating down Hulk.

Incomparable strength doesn't mean the strongest. Thanos is clearly in the top group but that doesn't mean he's above everything else. Plus, the Avengers never fought Surtur at his full power. Hulk was the only one who attacked him and it barely phazed him and Thor knew it wasn't even worth to try (that and he probably didn't want him to focus on them and more on destroying Asgard and Hela along with him).

Anyway, Odin FRA for me.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Thor was keeping up with her fine in the throne room. He couldn't beat her because she was too strong, not cause she was worlds faster than him. Why would Thanos try to catch Mjonir?

Cause why wouldnt he? It was a weapon that was being used against him and he moved to catch Storm Breaker.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I guess I misremembered the Hela fight, its been a long time since I watched it so thats my bad.

 

[PsychoWarper]

And Thanos is stated to be move faster than Thor believed possible. That means he is even faster than Hela so Odin at best is relative to Hela.

Ill admit to Thanos being faster than Hela, I misremembered the scene which is my bad.

I dont see why that makes Odin relative to Hela, has Thor really scene his father go all out in a fight? Iirc Odin didnt fight nearly as much after Thor was born.

Thanos caught Stormbreaker from behind. That’s a better feat than Hela catching the hammer she clearly say coming her way.

I dont see why this is a more impressive feat, he caught it coming back and it seemed slower coming back vs when its originally thrown.

I will say I thought Hela had been turned around when Thor threw his hammer, just watched the scene so I was wrong about that as well, again my bad (Guess I need to rewatch that movie huh).

Don’t misrepresent the Thor vs Hela fight. He had Loki bring back Surtur cuz she was stronger than them and wouldn’t die as long as Asgard still existed. Surtur is both stronger than Hela and was able to destroy Asgard. Speed wasn’t the issue when Thor already kept up with her and tagged her.

I mean id say she was clearly faster, however I was wrong about how much faster she was.

And she just teleports. Odin also doesn’t shoot a continuous beam, he shoots single blasts.

He shoots a longer beam against the Frost Giants in the first movie iirc, tho ill need to watch it to confirm (Unfortunately we didnt see much from the fight)

10 secs of cinematic timing. That’s why I said it’s 10 secs from their MHS+ perspective.

You right my Bad

“Barely staggered” …… Hulk slammed him backwards.

Yes barely staggered but you already dropped it.

You are ignoring the fact that it’s an omniscient narrator saying Thanos > anything they have faced before and that his strength is “incomparable”.

Wasnt hat referring to the Avengers? I took that as the team as a whole not each individual member, plus Thor didnt even fight FP Surtur

 

[PsychoWarper]

Since speed is a contentious thing and may lead to a speed blitz maybe we should just equalise it? To make things simpler?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Snip

The stuff we’ve been going as nauseum the whole time.

Incomparable strength doesn't mean the strongest. Thanos is clearly in the top group but that doesn't mean he's above everything else.

Oxford, Dictionary.com, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Collins again, Vocabulary.com, Macmillan.

For transparency, Collins does a definition for incomparable that means the word is for emphasis but given all of the other sources that define the word as being beyond measure, peak etc as evidenced by the synonyms for the definitions, it’s fairly clear that the usage of the word means that Thanos is superior to Surtur.

Plus, the Avengers never fought Surtur at his full power. Hulk was the only one who attacked him and it barely phazed him and Thor knew it wasn't even worth to try (that and he probably didn't want him to focus on them and more on destroying Asgard and Hela along with him).

Doesn’t matter. Omniscient narrator says Thanos is incomparable and Thanos doesn’t have a single antifeat since he spends his time bullying everything he sees.

On topic, I’m voting Wanda via being stronger than or equal to Odin, equal in speed at worst and blitz worthy at best, and actually uses her wincons of mind hax and runic power null in fights in character.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I really wish we saw Odin fight more, I especially wish we had seen Prime Odin vs Prime Surtur. It makes fight with him hard cause we just know so little about how he fights beyond “He starts with laser”.

Ill ask again, do you guys think Speed should be equalised just to make the debate simpler.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ill admit to Thanos being faster than Hela, I misremembered the scene which is my bad.

It’s fine. I misremember stuff all the time. Happens to all of us.

I dont see why that makes Odin relative to Hela, has Thor really scene his father go all out in a fight? Iirc Odin didnt fight nearly as much after Thor was born.

Odin specifically sent a whole army of Valkyries to stall Hela when she was going to escape from Helheim iirc. Him being faster than her is a really weird thing to argue when it’s never stated and actually implied to be the opposite.

I dont see why this is a more impressive feat, he caught it coming back and it seemed slower coming back vs when its originally thrown.

Is Stormbreaker being called to Thor’s hand from Norway not the fastest MHS+ feat we have? Thanos turned and caught it mid flight while it was meters from his chest.

He shoots a longer beam against the Frost Giants in the first movie iirc, tho ill need to watch it to confirm (Unfortunately we didnt see much from the fight)

Oh yeah, forgot that myself though the beam only lasts 2 seconds or smth. Honestly, Anthony Hopkins is the biggest waste in the MCU. They really had him give goated performances in the first but leave Odin do nothing cool in fights. Actually makes me wanna cry.

Wasnt hat referring to the Avengers? I took that as the team as a whole not each individual member, plus Thor didnt even fight FP Surtur

Not really. It just says Thanos is incomparable in strength and given that this is given minutes after the Revengers witness Surtur nuke Asgard in a swing, I don’t see how one can logically argue against Thanos being stronger even if it’s within the context of Hulk and Thor’s knowledge.

 

[Dalesean027]

Agatha scales to the same speed feat as Odin.

For me it's this Agatha being equal to speed with Odin, that drastically changes the fight imo. Wanda has indeed somewhat blitzed Agatha and been able to teleport out of her sight and mind hax her which doesn't bode well for Odin. I will say while wielding Gungnir Odin has used the bifrost to take other warriors(thor and co) out of dangerous situation just by raising his hand so I don't doubt he'll do the same if things get hectic with Wanda. I personally feel like this match very much relies on whether Odin can catch Wanda off guard from being out of sight, unlike her Odin would be aware of her at all times unlike the other way around where one of Wanda's biggest weaknesses is not being able to defend against threats she's unaware of

 

[Dalesean027]

If Odin backs away using the Bifrost Wanda can prep her own battle area by dropping a hex and applying runes kilometers worth of distance as Odin escaping anything dangerous would have to be temporary because he would know he'd have no other choice but to deal with her before she dictates the battlefield which would end up being all of surrounding areas which would lead into Wanda having an advantage either way since she has more options while Odin's win con is overpowering her or getting her off guard before

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If Odin backs away using the Bifrost Wanda can prep her own battle area by dropping a hex and applying runes kilometers worth of distance as Odin escaping anything dangerous would have to be temporary because he would know he'd have no other choice but to deal with her before she dictates the battlefield which would end up being all of surrounding areas which would lead into Wanda having an advantage either way since she has more options while Odin's win con is overpowering her or getting her off guard before

If this happened, Odin should honestly nuke the field with the Bifrost. He'll see everything happening and choosing to go into a killbox when he has a perfect out is beyond stupid. At least when he doesn't use his hax, he still has the very viable alternative shoot, stab, kill to deal with his enemies,even if its not as efficient.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Oxford, Dictionary.com, Merriam-Webster, Collins, Collins again, Vocabulary.com, Macmillan.

For transparency, Collins does a definition for incomparable that means the word is for emphasis but given all of the other sources that define the word as being beyond measure, peak etc as evidenced by the synonyms for the definitions, it’s fairly clear that the usage of the word means that Thanos is superior to Surtur.

Doesn’t matter. Omniscient narrator says Thanos is incomparable and Thanos doesn’t have a single antifeat since he spends his time bullying everything he sees.

Then if we go that way, we can also say he's stronger than Dormammu because "his force is incomparable". Sorry but this is too vague to make me buy Thanos being stronger than an Asgard-destroying fire giant treating Hulk like a bug and being so far above Hela who is herself stronger than Awakened Thor when even fat Thor is capable of forcing him to put some efforts to bury Stormbreaker in his body.

 

[Dalesean027]

If this happened, Odin should honestly nuke the field with the Bifrost. He'll see everything happening and choosing to go into a killbox when he has a perfect out is beyond stupid. At least when he doesn't use his hax, he still has the very viable alternative shoot, stab, kill to deal with his enemies,even if its not as efficient.

Yeah I'd think so too with no other options other than going in I can see Odin's last attempt being weaponizing the the bifrost and using it instead to level the fields and deal with Wanda

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

This Vs thread proves why the MCU had to first weaken Odin with old age, have him asleep or missing for large parts of it and then eventually kill him off (he breaks the narrative lol!).

Either way I'm voting incon since both have insta win cons and it's heavily subjective on who will use it first (or they just hax each other simultaneously).

 

[Dalesean027]

This Vs thread proves why the MCU had to first weaken Odin with old age, have him asleep or missing for large parts of it and then eventually kill him off (he breaks the narrative lol!).

Either way I'm voting incon since both have insta win cons and it's heavily subjective on who will use it first (or they just hax each other simultaneously).

Honestly same I can't say one will use the other first or say who will make a move to get their big attack or wincon off first so I'll Vote Incon

 

[ArkhamDC06]

I'm maintaining Odin because of superior fighting skills and experience but it's right they both have kind of instant win hax. And it's a shame we didn't have more of Odin in the MCU. I hope Zeus will get some amazing stuff in Thor 4 before dying.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Then if we go that way, we can also say he's stronger than Dormammu because "his force is incomparable".

Thanos > Drax knives > Stranger's shield > immediate output of Dormammu but peeps tend to get mad when I say this. Stay mad lol

Sorry but I can't buy Thanos being stronger than an Asgard-destroying fire giant treating Hulk like a bug

Thanos did this so it doesn't mean much. Thanos tanks the same energies that Hulk resists (but still cripples him and makes him pass out from pain) no diff. Don't recall Surtur crippling a weaker Hulk for life.

and being so far above Hela who is herself stronger than Awakened Thor when even fat Thor is capable of forcing him to put some efforts to bury Stormbreaker in his body.

Fat Thor > IW Thor > Awakened Thor.

Thor being able to make Thanos use effort is a feat for Thor as there is no scaling connection between Awakened and Fat Thor.

We just have to look at the context of the statement and it's pretty easy to understand. We just got done seeing Surtur bust Asgard aka big stronk fest. Thanos then appears and is called incomparable. Thanos is stronger.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

How does superior fighting skills help if they both have instant wincons?

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah tbh imo at this point nothing else matters seeing as they both have instant wincons and from the discussion me and Blank just had, this is an Incon battle

 

[PsychoWarper]

Hmm, I think I may be leaning Incon atm, both have possible wincons and neither are exactly stupid so… yeah im switching to incon.

Also yes Anthony Hopkins was unfortunately wasted, I think him as Odin was awesome but they just never used him cause well… Odin was to powerful for a long time.

Maybe if MCU Animations do well (And they remain canon) we could see some young Odin stuff, either his fight with Surtur or him as a warlord/conqueror with Hopkins as the VA (Hopefully). At least id love to see that.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

How does superior fighting skills help if they both have instant wincons?

It helps outside of this. Obviously it won't be of any good against wincons. In a regular fight though, it will.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

We are no longer in grace.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Fat Thor > IW Thor > Awakened Thor.

Please, tell me you're just trolling about that....

 

[Dalesean027]

Maybe if MCU Animations do well (And they remain canon) we could see some young Odin stuff, either his fight with Surtur or him as a warlord/conqueror with Hopkins as the VA (Hopefully). At least id love to see that.

This is something I'm hoping for as well it'd be cool to see Odin do some crazy stuff even just in What If or some kind of statements and flashbacks to/for Odin in Love and Thunder

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Maybe if MCU Animations do well (And they remain canon) we could see some young Odin stuff, either his fight with Surtur or him as a warlord/conqueror with Hopkins as the VA (Hopefully). At least id love to see that.

If only...

 

[PsychoWarper]

This is something I'm hoping for as well it'd be cool to see Odin do some crazy stuff even just in What If or some kind of statements and flashbacks to/for Odin in Love and Thunder

Maybe Zeus does some crazy shit and we get a comparison to Odin or something.

 

[JED]

Wanda FRA

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Grace again

 

[JED]

Grace again

I said Wanda FRA. Not Odin