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Yeah but that should been done later to rework the Low 1-C standards
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Kirby Cosmology Upgrade
- Thread starter Peptocoptr27
- Start date
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I'm actually pretty sure the description of the standards by itself do pretty much already tell what's needed for it.
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About the thread itself, based on the blog I have read, I can't simply understand why exactly ''transcending'' space-time is a direct implication of having qualitative superiority, when the description towards Low 1-C in it's designation needs the former point to prove said transcendence by a degree of infinity beyond what a standard universal model of Low 2-C should propose, which by the arguments shown here I'm not convinced about the cherry picking of such kanjis in the former assumption.
Simple enough, I don't even get why people here are supposedly using Japanese kanjis out of the way to just take up as a part of a ''mistranslation'' setting, it's irrelevant to the entire point of the thread even, plus just making the points itself even more redundant than it already is.
When the tiering system makes the usage of dimensions of real coordinate spaces, it refers to the same as ''degrees of infinity beyond the model listed'', however, as I listed in another point of the FAQ, an uncountable infinity is the way we should treat those things, a higher dimension by our own set theory standard needs to be an infinity beyond the lower one.
The usage of ''transcending'' here is being overexaggerated pretty much for it's point of origin, the AD just looks like a ''road'' that connects other space-times within it, ''space between dimensions'' would be excessively vague, given what Ultima had already argued here, the ''bulk space'' equivalence for the Interstellar examples are pretty vague based on the evidence posted, because a ''bulk space'' requires the same uncountable infinity to be considered into question.
So in short I disagree with the CRT.
Simple enough, I don't even get why people here are supposedly using Japanese kanjis out of the way to just take up as a part of a ''mistranslation'' setting, it's irrelevant to the entire point of the thread even, plus just making the points itself even more redundant than it already is.
When the tiering system makes the usage of dimensions of real coordinate spaces, it refers to the same as ''degrees of infinity beyond the model listed'', however, as I listed in another point of the FAQ, an uncountable infinity is the way we should treat those things, a higher dimension by our own set theory standard needs to be an infinity beyond the lower one.
The usage of ''transcending'' here is being overexaggerated pretty much for it's point of origin, the AD just looks like a ''road'' that connects other space-times within it, ''space between dimensions'' would be excessively vague, given what Ultima had already argued here, the ''bulk space'' equivalence for the Interstellar examples are pretty vague based on the evidence posted, because a ''bulk space'' requires the same uncountable infinity to be considered into question.
So in short I disagree with the CRT.
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That's what I said. That's what I always said I would do after Ultima (or any staff member) answered my questions.
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I'll just call DT to view this thread in response, but eh, this is probably not going to pass.
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How is using the literal definition of kanjis "cherry-picking"? "超えよ" means you're superior, better than something, which is what Kirby uses. To say you're beyond something in the sense that you go past it/outside of it, you use "越える". I have more reliable evidence to prove it, but everyone seems to hate placing the focus on that.
"Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space." However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions."
-Tiering System FAQ
"Therefore, such descriptors are to be evaluated while taking into account the number of dimensions which the verse has been shown to entertain; for example, a character stated to exist above physical dimensions in relation to a 4-dimensional cosmology would be Low 1-C with no further context."
-Tiering System FAQ
The only thing that may not fulfilled is a statement that AD is a higher realm, but since it's already superior to space time and dimensions along with making up the space between them, I don't see why that would be needed.
How is "space between dimensions" vague given what we know? It doesn't just make up the space between SOME dimensions or connect them through a thin tunnel. Even Effi said that it outright contains universes in the last thread.
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This part of the FAQ is fullfilled by the other points, in our own set theory standards, you essentially need an higher level of infinity beyond it, not simply just transcend space time in the same equation of the other listed paragraphs, likewise, what the FAQ assumes is that, uncountable infinities are needed, not that you can just get a ''higher layer of'' the same dimensionality you are exactly making as a point of reference, similar to how High 3-A is infinitely below Low 2-C.
If it just contains universes within itself, it wouldn't qualify for a listed infinity above it, you can still contain 4-D spaces in size and still not exactly exist in a 5-D bulk, good examples? Infinite Zamasu and currently Madoka, they have HDE listed for containing 4-D spaces within their extension, yet they are not exactly 5-D.
So the AD would just be fullfilled with those examples, since by what the evidence you have posted, nothing exactly implies that it transcends space-time in a degree of infinity, an uncountable infinity above a 4-D space would be, for example, if you transcended every single possible extension of those planes(in this case 2-A, since that's the highest possible extension of how 4-D spaces can get in levels of infinity in multiple universal models at once), so with this in mind, you may question.
''If Kirby doesn't have infinite universes, it would still qualify?''
The answer is, if a reality-fiction transcendence isn't implied to exist, then no, and it doesn't fullfill what the standards should meet upon, btw.
Transcend space-time by a degree of one or two higher levels of infinity where an uncountable difference is explicitly made, it would qualify for Low 1-C period, assuming the real coordinate spaces would have to be considered in this equation, that's what the FAQ is trying to make implicit when it uses the other equation of higher dimensional planes, a previous mentioned dimensionality still contains other extensions to be transcended in order to reach such kind of levels simutaneously.
This is simply similar to how a 3-D human would perceive a 2-D axis, no matter how high the axis expand, it will not form a 3-dimensional cube unless something is added in the equation to exactly form it.
Also, to give a little compliment, a bulk space is unbound by something such as infinite extensions of space and infinite extensions of time, I showed the Interstellar example to showcase what I'm trying to exactly talk about.
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A Correction. Infinite Zamasu is a space-time continuum explicitly. Not a container which contains 4D realm as its extension.
I don't know about Madoka at all, but from what I remember about her last short lived 5D upgrade, she is the multiverses themselves not the physical container which contains it.
There's a big difference between being the contained and being a container.
OP makes the case that, This Extra Dimension quite literally supposed to act as a mathematical one, thus 5D. "Uncountable Infinite" as you would call it.
Sounds pretty 5D to me.
Being able to access all points of time of timeline, other "what if scenarios"(Alternate timelines)...yada yada yada.
Especially with being space between dimensions...which our Tiering System clearly accepts as 5D.
All of it looks pretty Uncomfortable Infinity over 4D to me.
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Also this Blue names discussion isn't going to get us anywhere, especially "Muh other verses".
At this point we only need mod input, mods that will rationally listen to our points. I'll call a few of them.
At this point we only need mod input, mods that will rationally listen to our points. I'll call a few of them.
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The proof of acting a an actual 5-D axis is unsolved, the examples he gave had nothing to do with that, it just transcends space-time by a degree that is not even specified, the mention of ''extra-dimensional'' here is something that I still don't get why it would be exactly 5-D, it is not a bulk space at all, it is just a structure that contains universes within itself.
Except that he contains a 4-D space, the space-time itself, that's literally what he does, encompass and contain a space-time by himself, and he isn't 5-D due to this exact reason.
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Do please keep the insults in your trap.
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Blitzed, I already edited it.
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Heaven in PMMM is the conceptual realm that encompasses multiverse tho
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Except that FAQ disagrees with you, its not "extra dimensional"(adjective), but a noun(Extra Dimension). Space between dimensions is explicitly called 5D. Soooo...
humour me and answer, what would an Extra Dimension be w.r.t 4D space-time, especially stated to transcend it. Because 4D isn't an extra-dimension to 4D.
May wanna look at profiles before speaking bud.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Fusion_Zamasu
He originates from his point of "death" and shown as a disembodied will which is filling the entire hyper-volume of a space-time and overriding the its laws and order, becoming one with it. Then he "overfills the future timeline and spills into present timeline". At no point is he engulfing timelines, even if he did, he is not something "extra-dimensional" w.r.t space-time.
Your entire arguement boils down to, "water is contained within water" or "water is container of water". A completely redundant way of describing AD and misleading from actual permise. By your logic a human body is an extension of human body.....duh.
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Space between dimensions here has no proof of directly referring to a bulk space after all, plus it's also talking about an attack that ''cuts through space'' between the dimensions in the quoted questionary. This is pretty much by itself not enough to say it's 5-D, cutting a 3-D space that allows you to travel in each one of those planes is not a related equation to what I have argued previously, it is not common to assume it afterall.
He is encompassing it directly, shown in screen, and how does extra-dimensional even count for the comparison as a whole? The adjective has the definition of ''a reality outside of the universe'' or something related to the said, extra-dimensional is heavily context dependant, and it needs the same level of infinity that our standards propose, which was not proved here, the transcendence over space-time is not proven in any way to have uncountable infinities above a standard model, plus it does also mention that it's just superior to a certain extent, if anything, it would just be a 4-D space that encompasses other 4-D spaces without being necessarily infinitely superior to it.
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Speed
Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...
vsbattles.fandom.com
At this point, you are just going against standards.
You must not have read the full scan, look below that paragraph at the very end.
Also LMAO at 3D space cuts allowing you to travel between different space-times and eras.
.IZ has nothing to do with AD here, wholly inaccurate analogy, especially when described incorrectly.
Its called an Extra Dimension(noun), a realm itself. That exceeds space-time. A simple 4D reality would not be able to allow you to travel to different points in time and alternate existant possibilities without regular time travel abilities or immeasurable speed. Or else they would already have travelled to those points.....since you know these character already exist and live in space-times. Its an unique property of 5D which allows you to do what AD does, as the video above I linked shows, which video follows same logic as our System(atleast until 5D). Thus Uncountably Infinite superiority is already included in that, due to "higher time".
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Actually, wrong, a 4-D reality does already allow such kind of a feat to be performed right of the bat, since it already has 3 dimensions of space plus 1 dimension of time, time travel by using such kind of mechanics in this level is an already possible feat to be performed by definition, Infinite Zamasu performs the same equation in the former point, and all other HDE beings on a 4-D scale can already perform those feats out of the window, Zamasu appearing in the present by spreading apart as a living space-time, or Solaris's temporal omnipresence, you don't essentially need a 5-D space to perform such kind of a feat by nature
I gave a look and it's on the same level of vagueness of the other scans beforehand, the AD having a tunnel that connects parallel universes is just the same as how a cosmic interstate would work, the tunnel being extra-dimensional with the definition of travelling between those points is not enough to prove those kind of transcendences to be really focused on a reality-fiction point, may I remind you, but superiority also requires direct context, is that hard to understand? I guess not, plus given the equivalence of an inter-dimensional tunnel that transcends space-time on the sense of allowing travel, that's how it's superiority would be normally treated up, which it's equivalence falls under the same note of the FAQ in the extension of the previous mentioned points.
I used the 3-D space as an example, not saying it correlates to anything similar to the AD.
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did you not see this part...... >.>. One just doesn't move around in a universe and hope to time travel.
Kirby characters are not 4D in size and scope, so a false equivalance.
yeah, I know. But irrelevent since kirby characters are not using regular time travel abilities.
except that this tunnel is just a part of AD >.>
Its not being used the way you are claiming.
Pepto already provided those.
A tunnel through Extra Dimension(AD).
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This is not false equivalence, I just used the HDE as former examples of what's already included inside of it, sure, they aren't physically 4-D in size and scope, it's simply related to the fact that Aeon directly cuts through the space of AD to travel between those parallel universes, again, this doesn't prove so many things aside, it just connects them on a level of transcendence that is not even specified, a reality fiction point would be if they did directly see those worlds as they ''were projected on screen'' or something like the mentioned example.
Literally the entire reason of why this counter argument is still being regarded up is because of nothing implying the AD transcends those planes on a reality fiction point, plus that would mean it would transcend every possible extension of the cosmos, even if directly 2-A, the difference from the AD and an actual bulk space being represented inside of Interstellar is that it is unbound by something such as infinite extensions of space and infinite extensions of time, how far does 4-D extent in Kirby for this kind of thing to be valid enough? Only 2-C? Again, unless an explicit uncountable difference in it's space-time transcendence is regarded up, this is not going to pass. This isn't hard to take as an finishing point.
Anyways I'm not going to break my head off on this topic, I'll simply unwatch this thread and wait for another staff input, not like anything towards Kirby takes my interest away.
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This is the same argument as the one used in the Archie thread. It turns out that when the context refers to a realm that shows superiority over the lower ones, this counter-argument doesn't apply. Here's some staff input to support it. And here are Ultima's own words in this very same thread supporting that:
(Read the context behind this response)
Even the tiering system page that you linked doesn't contradict this at all. Read it again carefully and you'll see for yourself.
We can conclude from this that by the Wiki's own logic and standards, a realm's qualitative superiority over space-time is enough for Low 1-C. Infinity doesn't need to be specified as that would be a ridiculous demand that absolutely no verse to my knowledge fills.
Sorry about the Archie derailment, but it seems to be necessary since simply quoting the FAQ doesn't seem to be enough to prove my point. I mean, the FAQ outright says that qualitative superiority is enough, and my blog proves that Kirby fills that requirement and then some. I'd go as far as to say it fills more requirements than Archie (which had unanimous agreement from almost every staff member in here as well as you).
By your logic, a character can't be Low 2-C unless they affect the timeline of a high 3-A structure. Infinite universes are irrelevant to a Low 1-C ranking. The FAQ only says it needs to be superior to the space-time continuum. and Ultima once again states that this is still up to date with our current standards (in the thread we're currently on, no less):
By the staff's own logic and the Wiki's own standards, Kirby cosmology is Low 1-C. The fact that every person who opposes this upgrade decides to leave after a few exchanges goes to show how blatant and inarguable it truly is. The fact my most basic questions still haven't been answered proves it even more. I haven't even elaborated on all of my arguments yet.
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Just looked through the Archie thread, and yeah I definitely agree with this upgrade now. If Low 1C Archie (verse) was accepted with that kind of logic, then yes, Low 1C Kirby (the verse) should also be accepted (unless the opposers disagree with Archie Sonic being Low 1C). I mean...I disagree with the logic for Low 1C Archie cause there just wasn't enough evidence for me, but Peptocoptr27 has went out of his/her way to show evidence to support Low 1C Kirby (the verse), so yes this would work.
The_Pink_God
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Not wanting to derail the thread but I feell that people here are a bit bias against Kirby
In the other thread, the one who tried to make Kirby and Co. Low 1-C, there were just people who said "Nah Kirby ain't that high" or "I can't seee Kirby that high" and even "Kirby is 2-C at most"
Like... Dude, did you checked the blog? Did you see the arguments made? Did you check word by word to see what makes sense and what doesn't? Did you read and re-read the thing to see what you think is right? Do you have any reason why disagreeing aside from "He isn't that high"? Did you even read the blog?
Where did these "Kirby caps at 2-C" even came from? Did Sakurai once say that and I'm not aware of it? What it cots you reading the thing, seeing the points made, come to your conclusion and actually give and reasonable input instead of pure bias
It seriously pisses me off how people just go for bias because they think it's right, which even I thought Kirby at Low 1-C was wank, but then I read the blog, I saw the points, I read the arguments and counter-arguments, and came to the conclusion "Makes sense to me"
Can you guys do that? And actually, give a reasonable counter-argument instead of bias?
Jesus Christ, sorry I vented a little, this isn't directed to those who actually gave reasonable counter-arguments like Gabs or Ultima or others
In the other thread, the one who tried to make Kirby and Co. Low 1-C, there were just people who said "Nah Kirby ain't that high" or "I can't seee Kirby that high" and even "Kirby is 2-C at most"
Like... Dude, did you checked the blog? Did you see the arguments made? Did you check word by word to see what makes sense and what doesn't? Did you read and re-read the thing to see what you think is right? Do you have any reason why disagreeing aside from "He isn't that high"? Did you even read the blog?
Where did these "Kirby caps at 2-C" even came from? Did Sakurai once say that and I'm not aware of it? What it cots you reading the thing, seeing the points made, come to your conclusion and actually give and reasonable input instead of pure bias
It seriously pisses me off how people just go for bias because they think it's right, which even I thought Kirby at Low 1-C was wank, but then I read the blog, I saw the points, I read the arguments and counter-arguments, and came to the conclusion "Makes sense to me"
Can you guys do that? And actually, give a reasonable counter-argument instead of bias?
Jesus Christ, sorry I vented a little, this isn't directed to those who actually gave reasonable counter-arguments like Gabs or Ultima or others
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This is extremely valid. I think that Gabs, Ultima, and even Eficiente have made reasonable arguments against the thread, but have done it in a way that it's still possible to have a civil debate about it. Others have just used the same lame excuses over and over again with no further evidence.
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He does have other threads to respond to and has other things to do, so it's understandable
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I don't watched this thread since in a very long time, I pretty much have answered when higher dimensions are valid in another post that I have taken on.
Infinity needs to be fullfied in this criteria though, verses such as Umineko have an pretty explicit difference regarding how higher dimensional constructs works inside of the setting, the FAQ also mentions that a qualitative superiority means that a 4-D space-time is something infinitesimal inside of a 5-D model, it would fall under criterias, I guess what the FAQ assumes is that this higher level of reality would have the specifics for such an absurd levels of ratings outside of heavier kinds of context to support it.
This system in entirely based on a current set theory assumption, higher infinities needs to be acknowledged for such dimensions to be valid, and also something that you didn't address in your other arguments, what's the definition that Kirby uses for ''different dimensions'' after all? I guess if AD was really beyond mathematical dimensions in the same sense regarded in our cardinals, it would qualify for this kind of a higher rating per definition.
On the extra-dimensional topic, fiction is never consistent with this specific term, you don't exactly assume to be the same extra-dimensional space to be above the Einsteinian space-time, both the adjective and the noun itself can be applied in multiple different manners.
What people needs to understand is that, simply nitpicking words for our own standards wouldn't be enough to get such kind of a thing, in this wiki, you don't get Tier 1 via terms, you get tier 1 via context. This was a similar case to a Low 1-C DOOM thread questionary where people questioned about the usage of the standards on it.
I actually never applied such kind of a logic in this scenario, what I said is that, if you are on an uncountable infinity beyond Low 2-C, you would also be above 2-A. What I implied with every single extension of the cosmos being already regarded in reality-fiction differences? You simply misunderstood my point, quoting Ultima's statement is just the same repetition of addressing the same kind of points once again. The equivalence is the same, Low 2-C and 2-A are still 4-D structures after all. Perceive a 4-D space as a fictional construct akin to how humans can be above a 2-D space formed by multiple squares growing in size, yet a square is not the same as a 3-dimensional cube, it needs context to be considered, simply exceed, transcend space-time is not enough to reach this level.
Simply because they didn't answer it on the correct time yet, plus it was still rejected by 5 different members of the same setting after all and no other people gave input aside.
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Yes, the lower dimensional space needs to make up an infinitesimal portion of the higher dimensional one, but the reason the FAQ mentions that is because this is how higher dimensions always work outside of a fiction/reality setting. In some cases, a realm transcending time and space can be enough to presume such a relationship between the two levels of reality. Hence why the Archie upgrade went through and (presumably) why Blazblue is still Low 1-C.
Finally, someone answers one of my questions and sets up a clear direction for the debate to head to. That's how to reach a conclusion. Thank you. I'm going to explain how dimensions are treated in the Kirby verse, but the explanation is so long it deserves its own post. Stay tuned.
The Extra Dimension topic is sadly somewhat irrelevant. It barely qualifies as back-up evidence since the Japanese version takes priority over the English one, and is even more reliable when it comes to Low 1-C stuff. That being said, I do think the verse should qualify for the rating regardless of if we use the English versions of the original. Japanese really needs to stay the focus, though.
It's not nit-picking as I'll prove later in the post I mentioned earlier.
Ultima's words still seem to contradict yours. You seem to think that it's somehow possible to be qualitatively superior to some 4D structures, but not all of them. Do you think Another Dimension is a 2-A structure or what?
I mean, Ultima has a history of abandoning threads and projects from what I've heard, and both you and Effi said you were leaving. Don't you find it understandable that I find this a little suspicious? Thanks for staying after all.
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Although to being fair, in the case of Archie Sonic and I think Blazblue, they did contain a 2A cosmology if I not mistaken.
So not sure if they are completely valid examples in that regard.
So not sure if they are completely valid examples in that regard.
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The main counterarguments are that the evidence given doesn’t really show a qualitative superiority to space or time, which is valid pointThere are likely others, but that is the main one.
Tbf, I’ll probably go on the disagreeing side. I don’t believe that the evidence shown suggests anything remotely close to a qualitative superiority. While I agree that the logic for Archie’s upgrade was technically weaker, the cosmology in that verse is already more impressive, making it far harder to argue with Low 1C.
Just my 2 cents, tho.
of course, if more evidence of a qualitative superiority is shown, then I have nothing against this.
Tbf, I’ll probably go on the disagreeing side. I don’t believe that the evidence shown suggests anything remotely close to a qualitative superiority. While I agree that the logic for Archie’s upgrade was technically weaker, the cosmology in that verse is already more impressive, making it far harder to argue with Low 1C.
Just my 2 cents, tho.
of course, if more evidence of a qualitative superiority is shown, then I have nothing against this.
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Simply put, qualitative refers to something uncountably infinite. Simply exceeding space and time isn’t an uncountably infinite superiority. The nature of transcendence needs to be thoroughly explained. We have been very strict with verses for this kind of tier. So while I think the arguments are good, it’s definitely not a solid Low 1C rating. A possibly Low 1C rating would work better
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I already explained that infinite universe are irrelevant to a Low 1-C ranking. Staff members agree with that notion and so does the FAQ. Read the previous posts again if you have to.
And my main argument is that the kanjis used in the OG descriptions DO refer to a qualitative superiority. That's why I always wanted to shift the focus towards this. It's also why I asked Ultima if proving that "超える" refers to a superiority would be enough to qualify for Low 1-C. That's when he left. I still need that questions answered, because otherwise, there's nothing stopping staff from moving the goal post.
Wait, what happened? You strongly agreed just 3 posts ago, and no new argument has been brought up since then. You're not even gonna go back to neutral, first? I legitimately don't understand.
Again, the Archie verse having infinite universes was completely irrelevant to its Low 1-C upgrade. Some 2-B characters got upgraded to Low 1-C just as easily as Archie Sonic did. Technically speaking, the gap in power between 2-C and Low 1-C is equal to the gap between 2-A and Low 1-C. I hope this argument doesn't come up again, because it directly goes against standards.
I can provide more evidence of that in the very same post that I already brought up (about how dimensions are treated in Kirby). It's gonna take a while to make though, so please be patient. I really wanted to do it in response to Ultima, but I guess I have no choice but to remove his vote until he comes back and post it regardless.
It sounds like you're saying that it's possible to be superior to some 4D structures, while remaining inferior to others. How does that work? No one has been able to answer that question yet, except for Ultima, who says that this doesn't make sense:
This means that being superior to the concepts of space-time or 4D structures is enough. The tiering system FAQ supports this.
"Likewise, it's not exactly uncommon for time travel (Or any action / process that affects something through different points in time) to be described as "transcending time and space." However, if it is specified that they "transcend space and time" in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is outright superior to a spacetime continuum in nature, then they should be put at Low 1-C, assuming the continuum in question is one comprised of four dimensions."
-Tiering System FAQ
"Therefore, such descriptors are to be evaluated while taking into account the number of dimensions which the verse has been shown to entertain; for example, a character stated to exist above physical dimensions in relation to a 4-dimensional cosmology would be Low 1-C with no further context."
-Tiering System FAQ
What do you mean?
I'm gonna start working on compiling my evidence for qualitative superiority and the how dimensions are treated in Kirby tomorrow, but it probably won't be ready soon, so I'll keep replying to comments on the side. If you have any questions, ask away. I'd be glad to answer them because I cannot for the life of me understand why you suddenly switched to disagreeing. Especially since you outright say that "Possibly Low 1-C" should work.
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Yeah ngl, this unquantifiably above 4D but less then 5D is a strange concept....I never understood this. What the hell kind of realm/dimension is superior to 4D and not yet 5D? Like how does that even look?? Like 4.5 D now??
Though this question only works for realms...power of characters is different context altogether.
Though this question only works for realms...power of characters is different context altogether.
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I know, but it just makes the Archie stuff more credible for Low 1C.
The thing is, "超える" refers to a superiority, not qualitative. A qualitative superiority needs something more than just the kanji.
It's less of disagreeing, but more of neutral likely/possibly disagreeing. I agreed that there were a lot of really strong points, but I've just been reading through everything and looking through the tiering system, and I'm a bit more neutral now.
I was basically just making a point that it makes more sense for a superiority of space and time to be Low 1C when the cosmology is already countably infinite in terms of 4D structures.
I didn't see anything like that in the OP, but I'm dumb, so could you just post them here again?
Well, what I'm saying is that one can be superior to 4D structures, while not being 5D. Simply being superior to 4D structures isn't Low 1C, there's more to it than that.
Thing is, they clarify that superiority over space and time has to be on an infinite degree.
Low 1-C | Low Complex Multiverse level: Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-Cstructures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)
Yeah, I'm not against a possibly low 1C, I just don't think it would be a solid Low 1C, so it would only be possibly. What I meant by that original comment was that the Kirby cosmology makes it fairly vague as to how big this superiority over space and time is.
Again, I'm not really disagreeing, but I'm back to neutral. I apologize if it wasn't really that clear before cause I did say disagreeing and stuff like that.
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