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Kirby Cosmology Upgrade
- Thread starter Peptocoptr27
- Start date
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- #284
Bruh, it's just been a few days. I said I wouldn't allow it to go down like the last one, so be patient. I asked Everything12 my questions on his message wall. It would be absolutely unforgiveable for staff members to aim for a victory by ignoring thier opposition. It would just go to show that they don't have any counter-arguments left.
With that in mind, we wait.
With that in mind, we wait.
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- Thread starter
- #286
Currently talking to Elizhaa on his message wall
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Why not the Q&A?
Questions and Answers
Got a question about the wiki, or a topic? Ask your questions here!
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- #288
Mini bump to remind you that this exists while I talk things over with staff. I'll probably delete these kinds of posts if they end up taking too much space
ump
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- Thread starter
- #292
Don't lose hope. My conversations with Elizhaa and Elexir are going somewhere. I'll make a Q&A thread if needed.
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,641
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- Thread starter
- #296
For anyone who needs a refresher, I'm gonna post a summary of the current arguments for anyone who forgot what they were.
The Main Argument
The Kanjis in the original Kirby Twitter posts and boss descriptions describe Another Dimension and its road as superior to dimensions and space-time respectively. For scans and context, check the blog. There's more to it than that, but right now, I want to focus on the back-up evidence, since that's usually what differentiates a deal breaker from a deal maker when it comes to tier 1 on this site.
Supporting Arguments
-It makes up the space between dimensions/timelines. Given how Galacta-Knight, Sphere Doomers, and even Magolor have used it, it takes less mental gymnastics to assume that it makes up the space between all of them than it does to say that it's just a thin tunnel between two universes, especially when it outright leads to the Dream Kingdom, which is a "far away realm", and Galacta-Knight can seemingly use AD to access any space-time coordinate. The reason this matters is because timelines are aligned on a 5D axis, and the space between them should pretty blatantly be 5th dimensional when paired up with the main argument and the following one:
A Brand New Argument
Honestly, I regret not using this one much sooner.
I'll be using the current cosmology blog for context behind this argument.
This is the level the blog is referring to, and I agree with it. Just look very closely in the background and see for yourself or check out the trivia on the Kirby Wiki page for Another Dimension.
As everyone familiar with Kirby knows, Pop Star and Halcandra are in separate universes, which means that by flying by them multiple times in the space between dimensions, Kirby and co. would need to be flying by multiple universes. It's the only logical explanation. Such a concept existing in Kirby is already supported by the fact that we know it contains timelines. Now here's the million dollar question: How are those timelines perceived in this level in Another Dimension?
They're portrayed as transparent pictures fading in and out of existence. They're meaninglessly small when compared to the true scope of Another Dimension. If the evidence already provided somehow wasn't enough, this seals the deal in implying a qualitative superiority akin to a reality-fiction difference or something infinitesimal. In other words, Another Dimension would, by this point, be filling practically every tier 1 criteria and then some.
And if this is STILL not enough, I'll remind you that I have more details to bring up about the main point. The reason I'm not doing it now is because I need to conclude some of the conversations I'm having with staff members outside of this thread, first. It may still take some time, but in the meantime, you have this to consider.
The Main Argument
The Kanjis in the original Kirby Twitter posts and boss descriptions describe Another Dimension and its road as superior to dimensions and space-time respectively. For scans and context, check the blog. There's more to it than that, but right now, I want to focus on the back-up evidence, since that's usually what differentiates a deal breaker from a deal maker when it comes to tier 1 on this site.
Supporting Arguments
-It makes up the space between dimensions/timelines. Given how Galacta-Knight, Sphere Doomers, and even Magolor have used it, it takes less mental gymnastics to assume that it makes up the space between all of them than it does to say that it's just a thin tunnel between two universes, especially when it outright leads to the Dream Kingdom, which is a "far away realm", and Galacta-Knight can seemingly use AD to access any space-time coordinate. The reason this matters is because timelines are aligned on a 5D axis, and the space between them should pretty blatantly be 5th dimensional when paired up with the main argument and the following one:
A Brand New Argument
Honestly, I regret not using this one much sooner.
I'll be using the current cosmology blog for context behind this argument.
This is the level the blog is referring to, and I agree with it. Just look very closely in the background and see for yourself or check out the trivia on the Kirby Wiki page for Another Dimension.
As everyone familiar with Kirby knows, Pop Star and Halcandra are in separate universes, which means that by flying by them multiple times in the space between dimensions, Kirby and co. would need to be flying by multiple universes. It's the only logical explanation. Such a concept existing in Kirby is already supported by the fact that we know it contains timelines. Now here's the million dollar question: How are those timelines perceived in this level in Another Dimension?
They're portrayed as transparent pictures fading in and out of existence. They're meaninglessly small when compared to the true scope of Another Dimension. If the evidence already provided somehow wasn't enough, this seals the deal in implying a qualitative superiority akin to a reality-fiction difference or something infinitesimal. In other words, Another Dimension would, by this point, be filling practically every tier 1 criteria and then some.
And if this is STILL not enough, I'll remind you that I have more details to bring up about the main point. The reason I'm not doing it now is because I need to conclude some of the conversations I'm having with staff members outside of this thread, first. It may still take some time, but in the meantime, you have this to consider.
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,641
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Interesting...
Very... Very interesting
Very... Very interesting
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Yeah, no. None of this is anywhere close to a qualitative difference.
Space between Timelines? Meaninglessness small? Transparent pictures? None of this shows either a Reality-Fiction difference or a uncountable infinity or a 5D Space. Nothing has changed with this new "evidence".
Space between Timelines? Meaninglessness small? Transparent pictures? None of this shows either a Reality-Fiction difference or a uncountable infinity or a 5D Space. Nothing has changed with this new "evidence".
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I mean... you should probably stick to talking about qualitative differences cause that sounds cooler and it's harder for people to misunderstand shit cause uncountable infinities are the literal basis for Low 1A up to 1A+ (and High 1A to a certain extent)
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Uncountable Infinity is the basis of all Tier 1, with Reality-Fiction and stuff being more additional avenues instead of the main uncountable infinity difference of dimensions. Plus, Qualitative difference might sound cooler, but most people have no clue what it means and so examples are needed to be given.
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Arent Inaccesible cardinals the basis of tier 1?
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Well, there's a difference between a qualitative difference (or an uncountably infinite difference) and an uncountable infinity. One is an aleph and reaches Low 1A, the other is at the very least dimensional transcendence. I agree that qualitative difference is confusing for some people, but it still sounds cooler, so...ye
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Inaccessible cardinals are High 1A...
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Inacessible cardinals just means that you cant access them stacking the previous numbers technically infinite is a inacessible cardinal as you cant be infinte by stacking finite numbers
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Inaccessible cardinals are pretty subjective to the ones that are inaccessibly above alephs if I'm not mistaken.
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Inaccesible cardinals just mean that you cant reach it stacking lower numbers
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- #309
Now I remember why I didn't bring this argument up sooner. I figured that people would use it as an excuse to discredit my main argument because "Lol, you're using PNGs as an argument". First, let me say that while the transparent pictures argument isn't the most blatant thing out there, it's the most logical interpretation when it comes to what they were supposed to represent. We know for a fact that they're not portals leading to those universes since portals in Kirby (whether connected to AD or not) have never looked or acted like this. What else could they represent if not the fact that those worlds are small and meaningless when compared to the scope of Another Dimension? That REALLY seems to be what they were going for when you account for future info.
How would one go about showing that? The space between dimensions is already accepted as a 5D axis on the speed page. Is it out-dated or something? I get why it doesn't qualify for tier 1 by itself, but when you put into account the fact that AD also has superiority over space-time and the previously established dimensions of the verse, that means it exists in the 3rd and 4th dimension along with surpassing them and making up the 5th one.
Welcome back Everything12! Hopefully you don't leave again next time I ask a question. Thankfully, Elizhaa answered the ones I asked a few messages ago, but I might have one is store for you, still. Are you down for it?
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Well, that's not what I meant. I think you should probably just prove that it would function like that. That's the same with why we don't automatically assume that the word dimension refers to a higher dimension or even the word transcendence referring to qualitative superiority.
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@Everything12 I am a little confused.
What wording or feat would Pep need to accomplish the upgrade to Low 1-C?
What wording or feat would Pep need to accomplish the upgrade to Low 1-C?
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- #312
So you're saying that I would need to prove that the term "dimension" in those statements refers to mathematically higher dimensions?
Even without that, I really don't get why it doesn't even qualify for "possibly Low 1-C". After all, Everything12's rebuttal to my supporting arguments was essentially just "no", but hopefully the response to Elixir's question solves that mystery.
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Like all things on the Wiki their is no absolute wording or phrases as fiction is far too varied with its cosmologies and mechanics for it to be like that. We just look at feats by a case by case basis and judge them to see if they fit the standards of being a qualitative difference.
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- #315
Not even gonna bring up examples or actual debunks to my arguments even though I explained how reliable Wiki sources support them? I even made a QnA thread if that might help you to be more specific, because that's what's needed right now.
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Shoutout to Elizhaa and Elexirblue for actually hearing me out. It may take long, but with them, we may sort of get somewhere.
Guardian_Doge
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I still agree with the upgrade to 5-D, if the road is said to be an Extra Dimension (LED) and is able to extend beyond 4 Dimensional space-times, it's not just representing more 3-D energy to a bulk, it's blatantly able to qualify as a higher dimension.
