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Kirby Cosmology Upgrade

Sus said:
kirby verse going 5D yay (hopefully)
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This is assuming a staff member actually agrees and I think more than one staff member has to pass this IIRC.

So if anything, this require lot more than just a few staff members here especially when it comes to cosmology upgrades like this. Also because whatever this counts as 5D or not is heavily dependent on the interpretation being used.

@Peptocoptr27 As far as I am aware, I don't think we ever use mistranslations as supporting evidence especially if it requires corrections as just as noted, while I am aware we using the Q&A for this, I also remain neutral overall since again this relies heavily on the meanings of the statements in question.
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
@Peptocoptr27 As far as I am aware, I don't think we ever use mistranslations as supporting evidence especially if it requires corrections as just as noted, while I am aware we using the Q&A for this, I also remain neutral overall since again this relies heavily on the meanings of the statements in question.
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That's also how it works as far as I know, but it seems inconsistent. Again though, it doesn't really matter to this upgrade.
By the way, you're not allowed to ping unless you're staff. That's what I was told.
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
That's also how it works as far as I know, but it seems inconsistent. Again though, it doesn't really matter to this upgrade.
By the way, you're not allowed to ping unless you're staff. That's what I was told.
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Wait, don’t you mean like staffs are allowed to ping other staff members and other folks while non staffs can not ping folks?

Also I think it varies since not all CRTs is a major ones.
 
I'm a bit disappointed on how we establish what's needed to be tier 1, we did well but not well enough to make everything clear as water and leave no doubts to any of the people reading our pages, and we always need to adapt to the public we have. Here anyone should have just shown a pic of our tiering page or its FQA, be done and close the thread, but it not being that simple means we're making a mistake.

We clearly goofed off by implying that simply being superior to time and space is tier 1, residues from our old standards were simply kept in the wording at some points. We neglected to clearly state that "transcend" does not mean what people think it does unless proven and went on circles over how maybe it means that or maybe not while allowing it to be that under super easy standards, hence there are so many verses at tier 1 due to invalid reasons. There should be no way in which "transcend" is "normally used in our forums", we creating language is dumb, it should be forbidden to use the word in pages for meanings it doesn't inhereditary have, we look religious by making claims like that (On lack of a better description).
 
Eficiente said:
I'm a bit disappointed on how we establish what's needed to be tier 1, we did well but not well enough to make everything clear as water and leave no doubts to any of the people reading our pages, and we always need to adapt to the public we have. Here anyone should have just shown a pic of our tiering page or its FQA, be done and close the thread, but it not being that simple means we're making a mistake.

We clearly goofed off by implying that simply being superior to time and space is tier 1, residues from our old standards were simply kept in the wording at some points. We neglected to clearly state that "transcend" does not mean what people think it does unless proven and went on circles over how maybe it means that or maybe not while allowing it to be that under super easy standards, hence there are so many verses at tier 1 due to invalid reasons. There should be no way in which "transcend" is "normally used in our forums", we creating language is dumb, it should be forbidden to use the word in pages for meanings it doesn't inhereditary have, we look religious by making claims like that (On lack of a better description).
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I think it refers to a qualitative superiority, rather than just a superiority, if that makes sense
 
If I ask a random person near me what does qualitative superiority mean next to a superiority what do you think they will say?
 
There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. I'm not just talking about the current arguments but about the way this thread has been handled in general. I asked basic questions and the people involved can't even bring themselves to answer them and make the debate much simpler and to the point. They just disagree and leave. That makes no sense.

I'll say some stuff after work if I have time. In the meantime, Effi, can you bring back Ultima somehow?
 
Everything12 said:
I disagree. Simply Transcending, Exceeding or being above Space-Time isn't enough for Low 1-C. It must be made clear said transcendence is either on a Reality-Fiction level or the difference is uncountably infinite.
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This was answered pretty simple and easy to understand close to the beginning I think, sure the FAQ may say one thing but if knowledgeable staff say something else then their opinion is the one that is very likely in the right.

And about Dictionaries, Thesauruses, Alternate Translations, and all that. We don't care, feats and statements or it doesn't matter. We care just as much about the Dictionary saying this is this as we do about names like "Big Bang Attack" or "Universal Destroyer" that don't have feats to match up.
 
Sure. It's a waste of time and I should've just gotten to the point, but maybe if you actually took the time to answer my questions and adress my core arguments in a way that aren't just "it doesn't fit our standards", I'd stop it. Ultima did the latter, but not the former, and your own arguments have been contradicted by his words. All I ever needed was for him to answer my last few questions so the thread can go somewhere concrete
 
It's never going anywhere, what they have now doesn't meet the standards. You WILL only gain Tier 1 if you have a Reality-Fiction or an uncountable infinite (qualitative) difference, you don't have proof of either of these things then tuff stuff the upgrade ain't happening.
 
Everything12 said:
It's never going anywhere, what they have now doesn't meet the standards. You WILL only gain Tier 1 if you have a Reality-Fiction or an uncountable infinite (qualitative) difference, you don't have proof of either of these things then tuff stuff the upgrade ain't happening.
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But he showed that there was a qualitative difference….
 
What's even worse is the fact that the whole "superiority must be proven to be infinite" thing isn't even consistent with the staff's own words in this thread and in other verses like Archie Sonic and Blazblue. I really hate bringing this up. I wish I didn't have to. All Ultima needed to do was answer my basic questions, and the thread would have been on a clear path towards a conclusion one way or another.

The same goes for Foxthefox, but he's not a staff member. Speaking of which, I contacted him on his message wall and in a private convo telling him that his reasons for disagreeing had nothing to do with the core of the argument and that I had responded to them. I warned him that if he didn't come back to defend his stance, I would remove his vote, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm not removing Ultima's though (or anyone else's for that matter), since his input on this thread has been meaningful so far, and it's not too late for him to put this back on track.
 
Those other verses used a logic not unlikely yours, they cherry picked words from our standards and used other verses as examples to get their upgrades across, adding to it gangs of users with a comparable level of understanding over the tiering agreeing with everything on regular CRTs where everyone can comment, rather than more serious staff threads for topics as serious as to get into tier 1.
 
Eficiente said:
Those other verses used a logic not unlikely yours, they cherry picked words from our standards and used other verses as examples to get their upgrades across, adding to it gangs of users with a comparable level of understanding over the tiering agreeing with everything on regular CRTs where everyone can comment, rather than more serious staff threads for topics as serious as to get into tier 1.
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by this line of reasoning archie sonic and blazblue are going to get downgraded
 
Eficiente said:
Those other verses used a logic not unlikely yours, they cherry picked words from our standards and used other verses as examples to get their upgrades across, adding to it gangs of users with a comparable level of understanding over the tiering agreeing with everything on regular CRTs where everyone can comment, rather than more serious staff threads for topics as serious as to get into tier 1.
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Downgrade them, then. That's going to prove incredibly challenging especially for Archie unless staff have a complete 180 on their view of the verse and the tier 1 standards. This 180 would also come pretty out of left field since the upgrades are still so recent, but I digress. Until then, the same logic applies to all 3 verses and they're all Low 1-C. If you want, I can elaborate on why Kirby has equal, if not better reasoning than both of those series and likely checks more requirements on the tiering system FAQ...

However, a more simple and less derailing way to do this would be a to just answer the questions I asked ages ago and take it from here. Please, go get Ultima. If he doesn't want to involve himself in this thread at all, I may have to remove his vote after all.
 
Bring up other verses from your part is a cheap tactic and unneeded in a serious debate, similar to how you go as far as to point out what our standards & rules are and tell them by your words in the blog you did for the upgrade, rather than just limit yourself to show the evidence. And to tell me to go and downgrade those other verses is selfish, what have I proven to care for those verses' accuracy to you? Nothing that would make me take my time to fix them and put the effort to do so. What I did point out and prove "about those verses" is something else, which you are required to be able to tell how it's unrelated to the request you gave me.
 
Eficiente said:
Bring up other verses from your part is a cheap tactic and unneeded in a serious debate, similar to how you go as far as to point out what our standards & rules are and tell them by your words in the blog you did for the upgrade, rather than just limit yourself to show the evidence. And to tell me to go and downgrade those other verses is selfish, what have I proven to care for those verses' accuracy to you? Nothing that would make me take my time to fix them and put the effort to do so. What I did point out and prove "about those verses" is something else, which you are required to be able to tell how it's unrelated to the request you gave me.
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What? he just pointed out that several verses are 5-D by the same reazons kirby should be 5-D that isnt selfish how is doing a comparation is selfish and i didnt understand what you said after that, and that comes from me the man with the bad grammar. he showed the evidence he was just responding to what they say and he can point out the standards and rules if he wants because in this cases is to prove than the verse is 5-D
 
Eficiente said:
Bring up other verses from your part is a cheap tactic and unneeded in a serious debate, similar to how you go as far as to point out what our standards & rules are and tell them by your words in the blog you did for the upgrade, rather than just limit yourself to show the evidence. And to tell me to go and downgrade those other verses is selfish, what have I proven to care for those verses' accuracy to you? Nothing that would make me take my time to fix them and put the effort to do so. What I did point out and prove "about those verses" is something else, which you are required to be able to tell how it's unrelated to the request you gave me.
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sir
all he said was 'these words match up to these other words, and i have proof to say that the kirby cosmology fits the exact words to get to Low 1-C, and the same words are used for these other verses- so if kirby's not accepted, then they wouldn't be too'
literally a double standard if you reject Kirby's Tier 1
 
Livinmeme said:
What? he just pointed out that several verses are 5-D by the same reazons kirby should be 5-D that isnt selfish how is doing a comparation is selfish and i didnt understand what you said after that, and that comes from me the man with the bad grammar. he showed the evidence he was just responding to what they say and he can point out the standards and rules if he wants because in this cases is to prove than the verse is 5-D
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Text comprehension. What you say isn't, to tell me to downgrade those verses is, because he didn't ask me to do so, he just took in that being something I would do based on a jump in logic, he should have asked if I wanted to downgrade them if anything, but that would have far less weight to his "this other verses are tier 1 for this reasons, therefore so should Kirby" tactic.
 
Eficiente said:
Text comprehension. What you say isn't, to tell me to downgrade those verses is, because he didn't ask me to do so, he just took in that being something I would do based on a jump in logic, he should have asked if I wanted to downgrade them if anything, but that would have far less weight to his "this other verses are tier 1 for this reasons, therefore so should Kirby" tactic.
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those reasons are the same reasons that Kirby has, if Kirby doesn't get Low 1-C despite having the same reasons then neither should the others
 
Meganova_Stella said:
sir
all he said was 'these words match up to these other words, and i have proof to say that the kirby cosmology fits the exact words to get to Low 1-C, and the same words are used for these other verses- so if kirby's not accepted, then they wouldn't be too'
literally a double standard if you reject Kirby's Tier 1
Click to expand...
You are simplifying what's done, he did so many times by now with none being a valid thing to say.
Meganova_Stella said:
those reasons are the same reasons that Kirby has, if Kirby doesn't get Low 1-C despite having the same reasons then neither should the others
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This is not about those other verses, the title and tags of the thread say Kirby, not Sonic, not Persona, etc.
 
Eficiente said:
You are simplifying what's done, he did so many times by now with none being a valid thing to say.
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None are "a valid thing to say"? You mean that none of what I said fits our standards, right? Is that really your argument? I thought that it was that the Wiki's wording about how tier 1 is treated wasn't clear enough and that my blog somehow misinterpreted it. The latter is definitely a more reasonable reason than the former (although is still flawed), but if you're arguing the former or both, then you need to be way more specific because I clearly displayed how this upgrade does fit our standards in the blog.
Eficiente said:
This is not about those other verses, the title and tags of the thread say Kirby, not Sonic, not Persona, etc.
Click to expand...
First of all I did not say a single thing related to Persona. Secondly, that's exactly why I already said it's best to just have my questions be answered so we can continue this properly with a clear objective instead of derailing. Do you even know which questions I'm talking about or are they too far behind in the thread?
 
I read through the blog.
"Another dimension" being an Extra Dimensional space which contains 4D structures within itself analogous to an ""Timeline/Universe" contains galaxies".
The Road within this dimension being stated as "transcending" space-time, allowing it to connect various alternate dimensions and time points(~~could be immeasurable speed~~). All seems good evidence for 5D. Especially when it seems the game seems to go with literally with definition of Extra Dimension.

And thus, I agree with 5D.
 
I'mma be real with you @Peptocoptr27 i feel like it is pointless. Not that i disagree, but i feel like we should just retreat. No matter what we say or what we do this guys ain't gonna budge and no matter what we say and they are the ones who will have the last word as they are the mods. Ultimate seems to not give a crap anymore so might as well forget about him rn.

I do want you to post the questions again so they can be properly answered, not that that will help cause, like i said, they ain't gonna budge.

Other verses get their upgrades because they have manpower. They can grab hold of info all around the place and get a big CRT through. What do we have out of active supporters? Me, you and Efi, aka the guy who disagrees with like 90% of what i say and also the only active mod who supports kirby. We lack manpower and mods who support Kirby, so no matter what we say it's probably gonna get rejected because we are just average members in the eyes of vsbattles.

Overall: let's give em the questions, once they are answered which would likely mean that they disagreed, let's retreat and try to prepare in a more successful way. Best case scenario, a new game comes out and AD appears with more info. If that happens, it would be good.

Either way, please repost the questions.
 
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