Chaos Force Low 1-C Upgrade?

[Bernkastelll]

All these scans just make it rlly high into 4-D

 

[ElixirBlue]

Me: My Hero Academia has humans, a history from being ordinary humans to superhumans, also has locations called Japan and the United States, so it’s has to be planet earth

Bernkastell: that description sounds vague as hell. You can’t call it Earth.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Me: My Hero Academia has humans, a history from being ordinary humans to superhumans, also has locations called Japan and the United States, so it’s has to be planet earth

Bernkastell: that description sounds vague as hell. You can’t call it Earth.

That's pretty much a false equivalency, I shouldnt even reply it, but there I am

 

[ElixirBlue]

So being beyond the comprehension of a 3D being is 5D now?

After transcending past to 2 Planes of Existence and after that saying you exist outside of time and space

 

[ElixirBlue]

That's pretty much a false equivalency, I shouldnt even reply it, but there I am

I mean, you were also using false equivalency early in the argument

 

[Bernkastelll]

After transcending to 2 higher planes of existence and after that saying you exist outside of time and space

Existing outside time space is not enough to tier 1, the higher planes of existance talks about the place outside time space, and there we go with the circular argument

 

[ElixirBlue]

Existing outside time space is not enough to tier 1, the higher planes of existance talks about the place outside time space, and there we go with the circular argument

I love how are you keep trying to use the outside of time and space statement to take place before the higher planes of existence statement.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I love how are you keep trying to use the outside of time and space statement to take place before the higher planes of existence statement.

I didnt got it? What do you mean?

 

[Hasty12345]

I love how are you keep trying to use the outside of time and space statement to take place before the higher planes of existence statement

why is doing the opposite any better?

 

[Bernkastelll]

@ElixirBlue Are u talking about me wording it first? whats the problem? would it change something? And the scan literally shows the place outside of time and space before the higher plane of reality, I didnt got ur point

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Hey let’s all calm down and try to discuss in a civil matter.

 

[ElixirBlue]

You keep referring “Outside of Time and Space” and “Higher Planes of Existence” as two separate things and-

scan literally shows the place outside of time and space before the higher plane of reality

What?

 

[Bernkastelll]

You keep referring “Outside of Time and Space” and “Higher Planes of Existence” as two separate things and-

When? that was what I said >> ''Transcendence on the context talks about characters that transcend to the Higher Plane of reality, that is just a place outside time space, so, you envolving it a lot of times won't change the fact that it isnt enough to tier 1''

 

[Bernkastelll]

Hey let’s all calm down and try to discuss in a civil matter.

Both me and Elixir are being civilized

 

[ElixirBlue]

When? that was what I said >> ''Transcendence on the context talks about characters that transcend to the Higher Plane of reality, that is just a place outside time space, so, you envolving it a lot of times won't change the fact that it isnt enough to tier 1''

You seem to have left out that there’s two higher plane of existence in that piece of text just now.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Both me and Elixir are being civilized

Trying, at the very least. We’re mostly trying to get to know each other.

 

[Bernkastelll]

You seem to have left out that there’s two higher plane of existence in that piece of text just now.

And being higher than something won't make it reach tier 1

 

[Bernkastelll]

Trying, at the very least. We’re mostly trying to get to know each other.

Wot?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Anyways, there had a guy that said that he would come here to argue as well, I will check his arguments when he type

 

[deonment]

Transcendence on the context talks about characters that transcend to the Higher Plane of reality, that is just a place outside time space, so, you envolving it a lot of times won't change the fact that it isnt enough to tier 1, anyways, just call Ultima and gg

okay so lets establish a few things shall we,
The Archie Multiverse 2-A in scale
The Chaos force is described as outside time and space so it exists outside of the Archie Multiverse, i'm pretty sure most people can agree on this
People who have become apart of the Chaos Force describe it as a higher plane once by another echidna and once by the narrator themselves
Becoming one with the Chaos Force is also described as transcending twice
So in total the Chaos Force Exists Outside of the Infinite 4D Archie Multiverse, is described as being a higher plane of existence and being beyond comprehension to the once again 4D Archie Multiverse and becoming one with the Chaos force is described as transcending
This should prove that it is indeed low 1-C as it exists outside of the space and time of a 4d multiverse, is described as a higher plane and becoming one with it is being described as transcendence

 

[Bernkastelll]

okay so lets establish a few things shall we,
The Archie Multiverse 2-A in scale
The Chaos force is described as outside time and space so it exists outside of the Archie Multiverse, i'm pretty sure most people can agree on this
People who have become apart of the Chaos Force describe it as a higher plane once by another echidna and once by the narrator themselves
Becoming one with the Chaos Force is also described as transcending twice
So in total the Chaos Force Exists Outside of the Infinite 4D Archie Multiverse, is described as being a higher plane of existence and being beyond comprehension to the once again 4D Archie Multiverse and becoming one with the Chaos force is described as transcending
This should prove that it is indeed low 1-C as it exists outside of the space and time of a 4d multiverse, is described as a higher plane and becoming one with it is being described as transcendence

But the main problem is because Outside Space Time is not enough to reach tier 1, and the transcendence envolves the higher plane of reality that is just a place outside time and space

 

[ElixirBlue]

But the main problem is because Outside Space Time is not enough to reach tier 1, and the transcendence envolves the higher plane of reality that is just a place outside time and space

The Guardians describes their spiritual plane of existence being beyond the reality of the 3D Plane of existence. The Chaos Force is described as being beyond the spiritual plane.

“Outside of Time and Space” is not a ceiling term.

 

[ShakeResounding]

>Wakes up at 2 AM

>Sees repeated, circular arguments

>Sees people cherrypicking parts of arguments to "debunk" them but not the actual argument itself

... I'm going back to sleep.

 

[deonment]

But the main problem is because Outside Space Time is not enough to reach tier 1, and the transcendence envolves the higher plane of reality that is just a place outside time and space

of course existing outside of time and space is not enough to reach tier one however in conjunction with it being described as a higher plane of reality which in this case is a higher plane in comparison to the 4d multiverse and the fact that it is described as transcendence should be enough for this to reach tier 1

 

[Bernkastelll]

The Guardians describes their spiritual plane of existence being beyond the reality of the 3D Plane of existence. The Chaos Force is described as being beyond the spiritual plane.

“Outside of Time and Space” is not a ceiling term.

And beyond isnt enough, it is vague, stacking beyonds won't reach tier 1

 

[ElixirBlue]

And beyond isnt enough,

You keep saying 1 thing isn't enough, yet you have been presented with multiple things and angles

What is enough? Maybe that will help the conversation.

 

[deonment]

And beyond isnt enough, it is vague, stacking beyonds won't reach tier 1

of course not, not by itself you have to take these in conjunction for them to have any worthwhile meaning for tiering, so focusing on one part of the entire argument instead of the entirety of said argument itself is asking for your points to hold less weight as you only address a single point of the many points that are supposed to be taken collectively to get the point across

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Seems Interesting

Following

 

[Oleggator]

@ElixirBlue Are u talking about me wording it first? whats the problem? would it change something? And the scan literally shows the place outside of time and space before the higher plane of reality, I didnt got ur point

Just want to point out that you can't notify person by "@"(only mods can(if you knew, you knew, if not then good to know)).

 

[deonment]

if you keep taking these points by themselves then obviously they wont reach tier one, however if you keep doing so i will feel the need to no longer address you points at all since they bring nothing new and ignore the context given by the rest of the scans

 

[Bernkastelll]

You keep saying 1 thing isn't enough, yet you have been presented with multiple things and angles

What is enough? Maybe that will help the conversation.

VSB guides and standards, outside VSB, I can argue even 5-D to 1-A archie sonic, I work like that

 

[Bernkastelll]

Just want to point out that you can't notify person by "@"(only mods can(if you knew, you knew, if not then good to know)).

Oh, srry, I thought that i could notify using it like the internal forum

 

[Oleggator]

Oh, srry, I thought that i could notify using it like the internal forum

yeah, also acknowledged that later after time being in external forum after internal.

 

[deonment]

I am off to sleep, if there is need for me i will probably be awake at the very least 6 hours after i post this

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Damn let’s wait for Jotaro and his crew to make a huge essay on this.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

This seems blatantly obvious so i agree

 

[My_area]

Okay,going to address all of the arguments one by one.

Mathias who used Chaos Energy stated that he views time concepts as irrelevant

More context is needed for this since it could simply means that time isn't having any effect on their body after they ascend which isn't same as uncountable infinity times transcending 2-A multiverse nor it equals to viewing 2-A multiverse which is by the requirements for low 1-C

The Deceased members of the Brotherhood legit stated that they can not die as they evolved into a higher plane of existence when they are with the Chaos Force meaning that 4-D or lower can't do nothing to someone who is one with the entire Chaos Force since it is legit stated that again evolved into a higher dimensional plane of existence and if we assume that they can die from a 4-D plane and etc, that is pulling a massive headcanon

That simply means that evolving into chaos force means that characters using chaos force simply cant die anymore.There is nothing stating here that 4D or lower cant do anything to them.Like Bernkastelll said,its type 8 immortality at best.

No because it literally said that they evolved on a higher plane which legit means that 3-D or 4-D beings can't touch them because they exist on a higher plane of existence and plus Chaos Knuckles stated that his Grandfather can't even see him, and he quotes (''Why can't my Grandfather Sabre see me do this?)

Evolving into higher plane =/= evolving into higher dimension and even then it doesn't prove that higher planes has like reality fiction inteference with 2-A multiverse or a greater than infinity jump here.Not being able to see doesn't mean Low 1-C,not sure why it suddenly became evidence for Low 1-C now.

when it is repeated multiple times that it transcends, being a higher plane or things of the like repeatedly im pretty sure it does, also you dont need rf to get to low 1-C and yes when it says higher plane and beyond space and time it does show that it transcends the infinite multiverse hell it is even described as far beyond comprehension which in context with everything else is most definitely more proof of low 1-C.

It can be repeated thousand of times and it will still not prove that transcendence in this case is uncountable infinity jump from 2-A multiverse or a reality-fiction difference between them,the problem isn't quantity of the statement,the problem is value of transcendence which is no way sufficient for Low 1-C.RF is literally 1 condition for Low 1-C.Check the tiering system?Being in higher pland just means being in realm higher than 2-A which is just higher 2-A and check the first scan of Maverick Zero x,it says outside of time which is =/= beyond space and time and even then beyond space and time is just 2-A at most without any context.Far beyond comprehension just means its beyond the comprehension of 2-A AP characters which is another word for them being really out of the league,no Low 1-C evidence to be found here

We should downgrade The Morphing Grid from Power Rangers to 2-A by this logic because it is also a higher plane of existence beyond time and space similar to the Chaos Force.

it is not the actual full on evidence, it is supporting evidence to help prove the point that the characters are being literal when they say they transcend or exiting in a higher plane of reality are literal, one more on the rf point, once again the entirety of gl just says no to that idea cause they are high 1-C without the need for any rf

Again if you have problems with verses using such ratings then you can downgrade them or ask knowledgeable members of the verse to do that.Bringing other verses isn't going to prove the case for Sonic here because its blantly not how it works.
Also Deonment no,transcendence isn't assumed to be equal to reality-fiction increase or anything like that unless proven as such which is the main point here.RF isn't needed for Low 1-C I know by GL you mean Gurren Langan? Thats false equivalency buddy because GL has used references for string theory ie lower dimensions being under bulk of higher dimension which is accepted in wiki for higher tier as outlined by tiering system faq page.

the higher planes is not just the only evidence people, it works along with the repeated statements of transcendence and the SUPPORTING evidence of existing outside of space and time to say that it is 5d

Higher plane is your strongest bet here because outside space and time is literally not a tier.And there are no other arguments for Low 1-C Sonic left so yeah 2-A Archie Sonic characters in the end

What does transcending to a higher plane of existence mean to you? twice over.

Like the word says,transcending into higher plane of existence ie higher plane of whatever existence depending on cosmology which in this case is just higher into 2-A.

Also, there is far more evidence, just this is the current for now

Can you please put out the evidence then? At this rate its going,it wont be accepted so if there are any arguments for Low 1-C Archie Sonic now is the time to show it so we can get it over with rather than have 2 CRT for the same matter.Dont you agree?

Pasting this of the VSB page

Characters who can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal mode

The Chaos Force is beyond two higher levels of infinity even the Multiverse

Not to sound offensive but are you new here? Because you are just using Low 1-C description of the tier and randomly ascribing chaos force with it.You do know that arguments dont work like that right? Again no harsh intentions,just curious.

So yeah my stance by this point should be obvious,I totally disagree with Low 1-C Archie Sonic and so has others and I still just wait and see if there are better arguments to be made for Low 1-C verse by either members or the OP of the CRT.

 

[My_area]

Ah shoot..new posts are made when I completed my comment and posted it sigh
I will address them in a minute

 

[Bernkastelll]

Ah shoot..new posts are made when I completed my comment and posted it sigh
I will address them in a minute

Hello My Area

 

[My_area]

off to go downgrade pokemon, gl, and a whole bunch of other verses cause 3d beings can see and interacted with higher dimensional beings

Except she never said that lower dimensional being interacting with higher dimensional being means they aren't higher dimensional anymore?

Bernkastelll: “Higher Plane of Existence” = “Same Dimensional Existence

She isn't wrong though but too bad she doesn't say it.Saying highe plane of existence at no point automatically qualifes for same dimensional existence sorry

Transcendence + higher plane of existence (x2) + Outside of Space and Time after Transcending past the 2 Higher Planes of Existence

Yep, sounds vague to me

You can make that times 2 as infinity and it still wouldn't prove anything because quantity of transcending statement isn't a problem,its level of transcendence which is a problem here so unless you can show or prove that level of transcendence is that of reality/fiction difference or that of dimensional tiering until then showing amount of transcendence is useless.

how the hell is it vague, it is literally a statement of transcendence regarding characters that we known have become apart of the chaos force when in combination with the statement of it existing outside of space and time and it repeatedly being called a higher plane of existence and being described as beyond perception, tell me please i'm really curious as to how it is vague

Its vague in a sense of higher dimension because it doesn't reference or implies a dimensions tiering or reality/fiction gap anywhere so ir doesn't work.

Correction: “described as beyond comprehension” to 3 Dimensional Tails

Tails is 3D so his comprehension is 3D too..You probably coorelates his AP with perception which doesn't scale

Hey let’s all calm down and try to discuss in a civil matter.

Pretty sure we all are chill here unlike your usual Sonic thread which becomes toxic(not pointing names at anyone,just mentioning it generally)

You keep referring “Outside of Time and Space” and “Higher Planes of Existence” as two separate things and-

How did they become sams thing now?

okay so lets establish a few things shall we,
The Archie Multiverse 2-A in scale
The Chaos force is described as outside time and space so it exists outside of the Archie Multiverse, i'm pretty sure most people can agree on this
People who have become apart of the Chaos Force describe it as a higher plane once by another echidna and once by the narrator themselves
Becoming one with the Chaos Force is also described as transcending twice
So in total the Chaos Force Exists Outside of the Infinite 4D Archie Multiverse, is described as being a higher plane of existence and being beyond comprehension to the once again 4D Archie Multiverse and becoming one with the Chaos force is described as transcending
This should prove that it is indeed low 1-C as it exists outside of the space and time of a 4d multiverse, is described as a higher plane and becoming one with it is being described as transcendence

Outside of time and space just means not being in there,how is it suddenly AP related.All I see is chaos force transcending 2-A multiverse which is just ... 2-A.How does existing out of 4d multiverse means Low 1-C? So existing out of Earth means Low 2-C now?

The Guardians describes their spiritual plane of existence being beyond the reality of the 3D Plane of existence. The Chaos Force is described as being beyond the spiritual plane.

Beyond=trascending =/= Low 1-C because there is no Low 1-C jump implied or stated here.

of course existing outside of time and space is not enough to reach tier one however in conjunction with it being described as a higher plane of reality which in this case is a higher plane in comparison to the 4d multiverse and the fact that it is described as transcendence should be enough for this to reach tier 1

Existing outside of space and time =/= transcending 2-A multiverse
All it means is that Knuckes while he has transcended 2-A multiverse is also outside space and time so outside space and time is pretty useless for tiering.

Hello My Area

Hey Bernlastelll.Want to talk outside of VSB?

Not gonna lie,Pro Low 1-C supporter argument makes me feel pretty nostalgic because I used to use Knuckles being outside space and time and in higher plane of reality as proof of Low 1-C and it was my one and only favorite scan for Low 1-C argument 2 to 3 years back.Not a insult,just a menory while I was addressing them XD