Kirby Cosmology Upgrade

[Arceus0x]

Now for Effi, I'mma be real with you too. Screw your chivalry or whatever i am supposed to call it. I don't give a damn whether or not we bring up other verses. We are pointing out double standards and ignoring them makes you less credible than a comicvine coomer. Now please answer the questions poperly and in a way that we can understand cause

"what have I proven to care for those verses' accuracy to you?"

Wtf is that even supposed to mean?

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I agree with GilverTheProtoAngelo's explanation of things, thus I agree with 5-D Kirby.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I didnt even read ig but I agree

 

[Delta333]

Tbh I don't like the idea transcending space-time=low 1-C at all,but sadly that's how this wiki works so I totally agree with 5-D Kirby unless someone downgrade Archie Sonic,Blazblue or Saint Seiya etc with the same reason

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I didnt even read ig but I agree

Wait, what did you not read?

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Anyway, here's my list of questions for Ultima again...

Which means that if the kanjis "超える" do refer to a superiority, rather than being outside or crossing something. you'll accept this as Low 1-C?

In the meantime, I'd like to know what your thoughts are on Kirby cosmology being "Likely" or "Possibly" Low 1-C.

If I can prove that the superiority over dimensions stated in this Tweet refers to mathematical dimensions rather than universes, will you agree with Low 1-C? If not, what more could possibly be needed?

 

[Bernkastelll]

what did you not read?

The entire text

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Bruh, please go read it or I'll have to remove your agreement vote. I don't want the supporting side to be mis-represented. The least you could do is provide your own reasons why you think the Kirby verse is 5D if you're not gonna read the blog...

 

[Delta333]

The entire text

king

 

[Sus]

is that a no or yes

 

[Eficiente]

None are "a valid thing to say"? You mean that none of what I said fits our standards, right? Is that really your argument? I thought that it was that the Wiki's wording about how tier 1 is treated wasn't clear enough and that my blog somehow misinterpreted it. The latter is definitely a more reasonable reason than the former (although is still flawed), but if you're arguing the former or both, then you need to be way more specific because I clearly displayed how this upgrade does fit our standards in the blog.

No those are different things. My argument was more of an explanation of why this isn't just getting accepted as expected from users, the part that I said wasn't "a valid thing to say" is only going over a part of what you say that is drawing comparisons to support tier 1 Kirby, which you cannot do as those other verses don't have valid reasons.

First of all I did not say a single thing related to Persona.

Context. Do you see the text above my text you quoted saying "those reasons are the same reasons that Kirby has, if Kirby doesn't get Low 1-C despite having the same reasons then neither should the others"? I quoted that and wrote after it to reply to it, therefore I never saied that you said that.

 

[Urshani]

No those are different things. My argument was more of an explanation of why this isn't just getting accepted as expected from users, the part that I said wasn't "a valid thing to say" is only going over a part of what you say that is drawing comparisons to support tier 1 Kirby, which you cannot do as those other verses don't have valid reasons.

Context. Do you see the text above my text you quoted saying "those reasons are the same reasons that Kirby has, if Kirby doesn't get Low 1-C despite having the same reasons then neither should the others"? I quoted that and wrote after it to reply to it, therefore I never saied that you said that.

it doesn't matter if the discussion is about kirby or not, THE SAME LOW 1-C REASONS that Kirby has are the SAME REASONS THAT THE OTHER VERSES HAVE, AND THEY'RE LOW 1-C.

and if you say those other verses don't have valid reasons...why not make a CRT to downgrade them? unless you're biased against tier 1 kirby that is. not saying you are.

 

[Tarang123]

I think the thing mainly has to do with the fact that other verses have been accepted as Low 1C have extremely similar logic. If you disagree with that logic with other verses, then first launch a downgrade for other verses

 

[Urshani]

I think the thing mainly has to do with the fact that other verses have been accepted as Low 1C have extremely similar logic. If you disagree with that logic with other verses, then first launch a downgrade for other verses

this has been my entire point ever since i came here

 

[Delta333]

Yeah between accepting low 1-C Kirby or downgrading all low 1-C characters with same justification they can only choose one,otherwise it would be unfair for Kirby and for me if I can I will downgrade them all instead

 

[Livinmeme]

I never liked the idea of "if you think that is wrong why you dont change it" in this context because the problem is that he cant do it for several things like time or dont wanting to figth the fans that is why severals series dont get the tier that they deserver like marvel

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah if kirby Cosmology has the same reasons to be Low 1-C than the others but isnt accepted then that is a double standard

 

[The_Pink_God]

So either we make Kirby Low 1-C or downgrade all Low 1-C characters that have literally the same/similar reasoning as Kirby...
Yeah I think I'll go with the former

 

[Bernkastelll]

I will go with the latter

 

[Sus]

the latter seems fine since downgrading is our specialty

 

[The_Pink_God]

the latter seems fine since downgrading is our specialty

Oh shit your right we must go for the ladder

 

[Peptocoptr27]

No those are different things. My argument was more of an explanation of why this isn't just getting accepted as expected from users, the part that I said wasn't "a valid thing to say" is only going over a part of what you say that is drawing comparisons to support tier 1 Kirby, which you cannot do as those other verses don't have valid reasons.

That sounds like something you should debate other staff members about. Right now, we both agree there's hypocrisy going on.
Now for the last time, do you want me to derail in order to explain that hypocrisy, or will you finally bring in Ultima so he can answer the questions I asked him and put this thread back on track? The second option is definitely better for a multitude of reasons, but I can settle for the first option, delete Ultima's vote and forget about all the time wasted so far. Your call.

Context. Do you see the text above my text you quoted saying "those reasons are the same reasons that Kirby has, if Kirby doesn't get Low 1-C despite having the same reasons then neither should the others"? I quoted that and wrote after it to reply to it, therefore I never saied that you said that.

I still don't get why you brought up Persona or what you even mean, but I don't think it matters.

So either we make Kirby Low 1-C or downgrade all Low 1-C characters that have literally the same/similar reasoning as Kirby...
Yeah I think I'll go with the former

The former is the simpler and better option. Should it be required, we can always just downgrade all of them later on.

I will go with the latter

Should I remove your vote? I probably should.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Should I remove your vote? I probably should.

I was joking lol, in the first page i already gave my input, obviously I readed it

 

[Livinmeme]

I will go with the latter

Pretty sure that was just a joke

 

[Sus]

Pretty sure that was just a joke

you think?

 

[Livinmeme]

you think?

No

 

[Sus]

seriously tho, if we're not upgrading Kirby, let's downgrade the other verses, otherwise that's obvious double standards

 

[Arceus0x]

jojo part 6 music starts playing
Less do this

 

[Seol404]

If the reasons for the other verses are really the same, then I agree they should be downgraded.

 

[Livinmeme]

If the reasons for the other verses are really the same, then I agree they should be downgraded.

Then do a CRT and why is wrong tho

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I still agree with Low 1-C Archie Sonic, and Blazblue is definitely also possible, but it really seems to lack a lot of context based on what I read in its cosmology/terminology blog. Idk about Saint Seiya.

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

If, hypothetically, Another Dimension was confirmed to be beyond the mathematical concept of dimensions and not simply beyond parallel dimensions/universes, would that qualify for Low 1-C?

I'm actually pretty sure there is a note on the FAQ about when higher dimensions are valid in compensation of this thing.

A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.

However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.

Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni. However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.

Basically, this note from the FAQ is exactly regarding the case of uncountable infinities to qualify, I think there is also something very conditional when regarding the nature of being superior to a space-time continuum in nature.

The answer may vary depending on this factor.

From what people exactly told me, this seems to be a case where the ''road'' transcends space-time in the sense of being able to connect parallel dimensions of some sort, or connecting the space-times of other parallel universes, hence the statement of existing outside of it is made.

What do I think is that, people should note that ''transcend'' does not exactly mean the way of superiority most Tier 1 verses of this wiki is classified on, but rather yet clarify that such kind of a statement can be heavily context dependant on the way of how much of a verse treats those things, verses like, Instant Death, has a very explicit context regarding how the nature of transcendence is regarded in it, or the example of the FAQ, Umineko, does a very explicit comparison about how higher-dimensional natures is applied, with ''witches'' seeing lower witches as fiction on the current plane they reside.

People needs to understand something really important, this wiki does not use geometrical dimensions to upscale a tier 1 classification of some sort, but it's system is based on the higher infinities presented by what the Set Theory exactly uses for the exact instances of those things being regarded.

If the case of just having ''geometrical dimensions'' really qualified for the patterns that this system uses, verses like Ben 10 would be 1-B since a very long time ago.

So basically my thoughts on this, I don't know anything about Kirby's portrayal to regard such things, but that's my input towards it.

 

[Livinmeme]

Pretty sure that Ben 10 isnt 1-B because the dimensions dont act like real dimensions anyway

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Pretty sure that Ben 10 isnt 1-B because the dimensions dont act like real dimensions anyway

They only have some kind of statement of 27 known dimensions by what the Najilians tells, but how they do exactly work? It is not made implicit.

 

[Sus]

They only have some kind of statement of 27 known dimensions by what the Najilians tells, but how they do exactly work? It is not made implicit.

"dimension" refers to universes in ben 10

 

[Eficiente]

Those verses that should be downgraded are just bad weed, fix our standards to make impossible to misinterpret them and most likely rule out that upgrades to tier 1 should only be staff threads+people who know and researched the verse would cut all bad roots. You guys have no reason to bring up those verses in any way in a thread that isn't about them, Ben 10 isn't Kirby.

it doesn't matter if the discussion is about kirby or not, THE SAME LOW 1-C REASONS that Kirby has are the SAME REASONS THAT THE OTHER VERSES HAVE, AND THEY'RE LOW 1-C.

and if you say those other verses don't have valid reasons...why not make a CRT to downgrade them? unless you're biased against tier 1 kirby that is. not saying you are.

Madding repetition of bad logic and lack of attention to what I say like this are absolutely tiring, I'm out of this thread, may somebody call me if they want to argue anything on this topic in a more developed way.

 

[Urshani]

Those verses that should be downgraded are just bad weed, fix our standards to make impossible to misinterpret them and most likely rule out that upgrades to tier 1 should only be staff threads+people who know and researched the verse would cut all bad roots. You guys have no reason to bring up those verses in any way in a thread that isn't about them, Ben 10 isn't Kirby.

Madding repetition of bad logic and lack of attention to what I say like this are absolutely tiring, I'm out of this thread, may somebody call me if they want to argue anything on this topic in a more developed way.

bad logic

bad logic? ok then, does this mean his vote is discounted or

 

[Peptocoptr27]

I'm out of this thread, may somebody call me if they want to argue anything on this topic in a more developed way.

Ah yes. Leaving while answering none of my extremely simple straightforward questions again. I'm noticing a pattern here. By the way, I already gave you a golden opportunity to argue this topic in "a more developed way". All you needed to do was to answer my questions and take it from here. You could've gotten Ultima to answer them (which would have made his time spent here more meaningful) or done it yourself. It would have made our objectives simple and the standards clear.

bad logic? ok then, does this mean his vote is discounted or

If he and Ultima never show up again, then yeah. I guess it would only be fair to discount them. What else are we supposed to do?

 

[Tarang123]

I can understand what Eficiente is saying. I think he's saying that the logic isn't very strong and if other verses use it, they should also be downgraded. I do believe that Kirby's cosmology would reach Low 1C cause of the amount of evidence supporting it, but that doesn't make what Eficiente said wrong. I think it's better to focus on summarizing the arguments for Low 1C cosmology instead of derailing like this.

 

[Sus]

I can understand what Eficiente is saying. I think he's saying that the logic isn't very strong and if other verses use it, they should also be downgraded. I do believe that Kirby's cosmology would reach Low 1C cause of the amount of evidence supporting it, but that doesn't make what Eficiente said wrong. I think it's better to focus on summarizing the arguments for Low 1C cosmology instead of derailing like this.

agree