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The Constant Demonbane Threads

Dragonmasterxyz

Dragonmasterxyz

VS Battles
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Okay we've all seen it. These Demonbane downgrade attempts due to a twitter post about Demonbane NOT being beyond dimensions as stated by the author. However, we have had a total of 3 threads doing the exact same thing. Showing that this twitter thing is out of control. I propose that we ban these topics so that they don't get out of hand.
 
I have asked Matthew to write an explanation note about it in the Demonbane (Verse) page. However, banning the threads with a discussion rule is also be a good idea in conjunction.
 
Honestly, three threads made by two peoples shouldn't make us resort to banning the topic. It sounds very drastic; it's not like these threads are pouring in on a daily basis.
 
Anyway, this is due to BeyonderGod's self-perceived jealous 3-year long vendetta against me and this wiki. He is apparently spamming troll threads about this all over Google+. The best thing we can do is ignore him, and simply contain the situation if it reaches us.
 
The threads are pouring in on a daily basis, yes. The wiki is under a very silly form of attack. We should try to contain the situation.
 
BeyonderGod is a ridiculous. He is so desperate for attention he cries out to anyone and everyone, and his criticisms are always appealing to bias and angry emotions, rather than anything solid.

Regardless, we have over 2 million views per month, while his wikia doesn't have 10 thousand. Some random people are undoubtedly attracted by his spammings, but they'll disappear.

Also banned the guy:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Contributions/Skycancer
 
I didn't know this was BeyonderGod's doing....

Wow, I guess the internet is full of petty people..... (As if I didn't know that.)
 
Well, here is a suggestion for a new discussion rule:

"Do not attempt to downgrade Demonbane based on Twitter comments from Jin Haganeya. He wrote the series 13 years ago, and has deviated greatly from the established scale with DYN Freaks, so he likely misremembers. In addition, he does not know English, so he uses Google translate, which makes accurate communication difficult. We also do not know how serious he is, and Twitter is an extremely unreliable medium for in-depth explanations, etcetera. As such, we have to use the established original canon to estimate the power levels for the franchise. For further information, see here, and here."
 
As for BeyonderGod, I recently compared our visitor statistics at Similarweb Pro, and was informed that we have 261 times as many page views every month as he does (roughly 4 million a month). This fact is evidently what motivates him, combined with his personal hatred of myself.
 
  • Furthermore, do not attempt to downgrade the entire Demonbane Series to simply Multiversal+ using tweets from Jin Haganeya as evidence. Not only are author tweets pretty much the lowest form of evidence anyone can gather, but Haganeya has is also not a very serious person, and has repeatedly admitted to be unreliable and to not know everything about Demonbae (As bizarre as that may sound). Furthermore, it's been over 13 years since he wrote Demonbane, so he likely doesn't remember much of it anymore, which coupled with his lack of knowledge of English and usage of Google Translator to answer english questions, generates answers that are not only completely contradictory to the actual novel, but also very poorly written.
Added this
 
Okay. You can make modifications to my version, if you wish.
 
I'd prefer if the rule is more like this, rather than what's proposed now.

  • When a statement from a character, guidebook or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used e.g if it's stated that a coat the main character wears is red when in the series is only shown as black we'll go with the latter rather than the former
It extends to more than just Demonbane; it doesn't encourage the use of genetic fallacies by making people see how the statement in of itself contradicts the source material, rather than just making a judgement from the source alone.
 
We aren't making any genetic science, we are just saying that they are generally unreliable.

But yes, that thing you proposed is also a very good rule, it could be added to the main Wikia rules.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
We aren't making any genetic science, we are just saying that they are generally unreliable.
Click to expand...
By saying author tweets are generally unreliable, the lowest form of evidence anyone can gather and that twitter itself is an unreliable medium for explanations, you're actively encouraging people to use genetic fallacies.

To prevent this from happening, I advise you to replace that rule with the one I made.
 
I feel they are not mutually inclusive. One is for general WoG policies, while the other is for Demonbane in particular.
 
He probably means the previous rule that I wrote.
 
Something like this perhaps:

"When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if it is stated that a coat the main character wears is red when in the series is only shown as black, we will go with the latter rather than the former option."
 
I like it, but the given example is a bit too ridiculous.

How about "If an author says that a character from his work is incapable of destroying planets, but he has shattered galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the later rather than the former."
 
That should be fine.

"When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former."
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
We aren't making any genetic science, we are just saying that they are generally unreliable.
But yes, that thing you proposed is also a very good rule, it could be added to the main Wikia rules.
Click to expand...
I think you are misunderstanding what a "genetic fallacy" is because it has nothing to do with science.

A genetic fallacy is discounting something based on it's origin, in this case discounting evidence because it is from Twitter/Jin Haganeya.

I think the above rule about discounting WoG if it is obviously contradictory to what's been shown is fine, but the WoG in this case doesn't really do that, moreso just adds context onto previous statements.
 
I know what a genetic science is, thank you very much. I discount what Jin Haganeya says because he has consistently shown to be unreliable. The same reason I wouldn't listen to what a man who thinks the Earth is flat and that the universe is 6000 years old has to say about dinnosaur fossils.

If you actually have knowledge of the series, you'll know he isn't giving context, he is making a fool of himself.
 
The tweet I was referring to was this one, where he explains that just because something is "beyond dimensions" does not mean it is "beyond ALL dimensions", which he further reiterates here. He is simply providing context to a statement. So far, this is the only statement aside from 1 other that I've seen to back up Demonbane being infinite-D/beyond dimensions.
 
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No, he is not. There are numerous other statements that prove infinite dimensional Demonbane Multiverse, and the Outer Gods exist in the chaos / void outside it, being beyond dimensions. This is bog standard basic stuff.
 
You aren't providing any evidence for your arguments, you can't just say it's "basic stuff" and then not explain why. But I'll go over your evidence for you just because I'm nice like that.

Okay so the first image is just someone saying they're in a space 3D beings can't comprehend. So it's higher dimensional, but an unknown amount. In the interest of being conservative this is at least a 4D feat.

2nd image is a guy saying time and space are meaningless to him. This could range from "I am beyond space and time" to "I can manipulate space and time to an extremely high degree". After all, a microbe is meaningless to me but I still coexist with it.

3rd image is just saying existence is an illusion, not really a feat for anyone except Azathoth.

4th image establishes that the multiverse is infinite, but that Demonbane and Liber Legis only destroyed "thousands" of worlds over a several billion year timespan, and also establishes them as much smaller than the infinite multiverse. If anything this is a low-showing.

5th image is just a guy saying he'll reach great heights? This isn't really a feat any more than Kamina saying he'll pierce the heavens is a feat.

6th image was addressed in the WoG above, going "beyond dimensions" doesn't mean "beyond all dimensions" as repeated twice.

7th and last image is just repeating that the multiverse is infinite.
 
Well, to quote:

"Furthermore, do not attempt to downgrade Demonbane based on Twitter comments from Jin Haganeya. He wrote the series 13 years ago, and has deviated greatly from the established scale with DYN Freaks, so he probably misremembers. In addition, he likely uses Google translate, which makes accurate communication difficult. We also do not know how serious he is, and Twitter is an extremely unreliable medium for in-depth explanations, etcetera. As such, we have to use the established original canon (borrowed from the Cthulhu Mythos) to estimate the power levels for the franchise. For further information, see here, and here."
 
I personally think that he is either trolling, or that he is forgetful and has changed his mind after such a long time. As far as I understand, Demonbane originally borrowed its structure from the Cthulhu Mythos.
 
IIRC, a passage from Demonbane is literally taken from Lovecraft's original works, and is one of the major things that makes the Cthulhu Mythos 1-A.
 
Antvasima said:
"When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former."
Click to expand...
Anyway, about the above new rule...
 
Antvasima said:
I personally think that he is either trolling, or that he is forgetful and has changed his mind after such a long time. As far as I understand, Demonbane originally borrowed its structure from the Cthulhu Mythos.
Click to expand...
Do you have proof for any of that though? And even if he did change his mind, that would be the current canon.

Not to mention we don't use cosmology from other things. Demonbane is inspired by the Cthulhu Mythos most certainly, but that doesn't mean it automatically scales to everything in the Cthulhu Mythos. If we did things like this then we'd also scale Kingdom Hearts characters to Final Fantasy characters and vice versa, just because they share concepts and characters between them.

The above quote about downgrading Demonbane is exactly what AMM was trying to avoid. You're arguing it must be wrong simply because of the source. I already addressed all of Matt's scans in the thread linked, and the Demonbane Cosmology explanation blog provides nothing suggesting infinite dimensions. All it says is that they are infinite-D/beyond dimensions, but it provides no quotes to back that up.
 
Meaningless downplay from someone who actively demands everything to be downplayed and never read Demonbane is meaningless.
 
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