-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
The Constant Demonbane Threads
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
-
- Tags
- demonbane (verse)
- 32,344
- 20,283
Demonbane is nearly identical to Lovecraft and Derleth in Cosmology. When Kurou meets Yog-Sothoth, they literally quote Through the Gates of the Silver Key word for word.
- 1,670
- 145
Matt I advised you watch your tone, LordXcano is simply asking you to provide evidence for the steam tents you claim alright. You don't need to comment something so blatantly antagonizing just because he's questioning a verses tier.Matthew Schroeder said:
- 2,334
- 312
@ Matt
Okay, cool. But that doesn't prove they share the exact same cosmology. All that proves is that they share that specific part of the cosmology. Aslan quoting the Bible and implying he's Jesus doesn't prove that he's Tier 0, because we have no idea how powerful that specific version of Jesus is.
Okay, cool. But that doesn't prove they share the exact same cosmology. All that proves is that they share that specific part of the cosmology. Aslan quoting the Bible and implying he's Jesus doesn't prove that he's Tier 0, because we have no idea how powerful that specific version of Jesus is.
- 33,408
- 8,430
- Thread starter
- #45
Let's not bring personal qualms here....
- 32,344
- 20,283
LordXcano is the guy who literally just made a Blog advocating for everything to be downplayed, and playing that up to be the intellectual superior approach to Vs.Debating. LordXcano tries to debunk speed based on background lightning, and considers quantity > quality in terms of feats, and thinks that Wall Level Thor Low-Ends are worthy off debating.
I respect people, not ideas. And LordXcano's ideas on Vs.Debating and always seeking the lowest possible interpretation, are ludicrous and completely counter-intuitive to everything we do in this wikia. I don't have to accept it, I instead combat it so that this wiki won't turn into r/WWW in the future. And I have no obligation to argue with LordXcano when all his interpretations of the scans are factually incorrect, since he hasn't even read a chapter from Demonbane.
I respect people, not ideas. And LordXcano's ideas on Vs.Debating and always seeking the lowest possible interpretation, are ludicrous and completely counter-intuitive to everything we do in this wikia. I don't have to accept it, I instead combat it so that this wiki won't turn into r/WWW in the future. And I have no obligation to argue with LordXcano when all his interpretations of the scans are factually incorrect, since he hasn't even read a chapter from Demonbane.
- 33,408
- 8,430
- Thread starter
- #48
@Xcano He never said that....
- 2,334
- 312
He said he respects people, not ideas. Given that he's being disrespectful to me because of my ideas, that's the implication I'm getting.
Also Matt, calm the hell down. You're providing nothing to back yourself up and you're just making yourself seem unreasonable because you disagree.
Also Matt, calm the hell down. You're providing nothing to back yourself up and you're just making yourself seem unreasonable because you disagree.
- 32,344
- 20,283
I said I respect you as a person, not your ideas.
Oh, don't use the "Calm down, you're unreasonable" tactic. You're the person with the most constantly unreasonable debating standards in this entire wiki, and I have the right to express my opinion that your opinions are wrong and nonsensical, just like I have the right to say that a man who claims the Earth to be 6,000 years old is wrong.
Oh, don't use the "Calm down, you're unreasonable" tactic. You're the person with the most constantly unreasonable debating standards in this entire wiki, and I have the right to express my opinion that your opinions are wrong and nonsensical, just like I have the right to say that a man who claims the Earth to be 6,000 years old is wrong.
- 8,675
- 5,559
Can everyone calm down, please? We need to stay civil, and we should not bring personal conflicts into this.
Again, the section that Matt refers to describes a 1-A space, regardless of whether or not Cthulhu Mythos' cosmology perfectly lines up with Demonbane's.
"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike."
Haganeya is not the best source for information, regardless, and asking him questions about his verse in a language he does not understand isn't going to get us anything sensible.
Given the support for 1-A given by people who have read Demonbane, DarkLK included, I think 1-A is the clear tiering here, regardless of Haganeya's statements. There's also the whole Klein Bottle thing.
Again, the section that Matt refers to describes a 1-A space, regardless of whether or not Cthulhu Mythos' cosmology perfectly lines up with Demonbane's.
"It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike."
Haganeya is not the best source for information, regardless, and asking him questions about his verse in a language he does not understand isn't going to get us anything sensible.
Given the support for 1-A given by people who have read Demonbane, DarkLK included, I think 1-A is the clear tiering here, regardless of Haganeya's statements. There's also the whole Klein Bottle thing.
- 2,072
- 240
I disagree, Xcano used a statement from Haganeya to provide us with an alternative interpretation on one of the scenes; it definitely seems sensible to me.Promestein said:
- 32,344
- 20,283
All the talks about being "Beyond space and time / dimensions / dimensional space", and of reaching a "Outer Chaos / Void / Pure Domain" refer to the realm of the Outer and Elder Gods which exists outside the physical multiverse, which is the Klein Bottle, which is an infinite-dimensional Hilbert Space.
So simple.
So simple.
- 32,344
- 20,283
When it contradicts everything about the series, it is senseless.Austrian-Man-Meat said:
- 2,334
- 312
The Klein Bottle just has infinite universes from everything I've seen. It has a buncha dimensions sure, but I've yet to see a quote where they say a Klein Bottle has an infinite number of dimensions. If someone could provide a quote saying this that'd put this thread to rest.
- 32,344
- 20,283
>Infinite Space and Infinite Time
>Infinity Found within a grain of sand, Eternity found within an infinitesimal moment
>This goes on infinitely forever, with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity
>After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside.
"Only has infinite universes"
I know you like to downplay, but do you even read?
>Infinity Found within a grain of sand, Eternity found within an infinitesimal moment
>This goes on infinitely forever, with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity
>After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside.
"Only has infinite universes"
I know you like to downplay, but do you even read?
- 32,344
- 20,283
Also, you don't need explict citations of Infinite Dimensions to reach 1-A. Neither Masadaverse needed it, nor did Tenchi Muyo, nor does Sandman Overture needs it with Mother Night, or Iceman Vol.1 needs it with Oblivion.
- 2,334
- 312
@Matt
Lets take this piece by piece.
"Infinite Space and Infinite Time"
So 1 universe.
"Infinity Found within a grain of sand, Eternity found within an infinitesimal moment"
So 1 universe with an infinite amount of time. Not too impressive so far.
"This goes on infinitely forever, with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity"
Now here's where I'd concede normally, if it were not for the fact that each new level of Infinity/Eternity is apparently just another universe. So now we got infinite universes with infinite time.
"After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside."
And there are beings that transcend this infinite multiverse. If I'm reading this right that'd place the top-tiers who exist in the Chaos at High Multiverse level+, or High 2-A.
Lets take this piece by piece.
"Infinite Space and Infinite Time"
So 1 universe.
"Infinity Found within a grain of sand, Eternity found within an infinitesimal moment"
So 1 universe with an infinite amount of time. Not too impressive so far.
"This goes on infinitely forever, with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity"
Now here's where I'd concede normally, if it were not for the fact that each new level of Infinity/Eternity is apparently just another universe. So now we got infinite universes with infinite time.
"After this Infinite and Endless cycle of Infinities within Infinities, one finally transcends it reaching the boiling soul of Chaos outside."
And there are beings that transcend this infinite multiverse. If I'm reading this right that'd place the top-tiers who exist in the Chaos at High Multiverse level+, or High 2-A.
- 32,344
- 20,283
A Higher-Dimensional univrse is still a universe.
Your entire logic revolves around ignoring all context and going for the weakest possible interpretation, not bothering to read the series, understand the context, or reason, or even logic. Even if the entire series points to one interpretation, if you can get a weaker interpretation, you'll go for it.
Your entire logic revolves around ignoring all context and going for the weakest possible interpretation, not bothering to read the series, understand the context, or reason, or even logic. Even if the entire series points to one interpretation, if you can get a weaker interpretation, you'll go for it.
- 8,675
- 5,559
"with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity"
This definitely implies that they're higher-dimensional.
This definitely implies that they're higher-dimensional.
- 2,334
- 312
Alright, yeah, I think that makes sense. That quote should probably be linked on all their profiles though. And, considering how this would now be the only quote supporting 1-A Demonbane, I think the rule should be dropped in-case new info comes out.Promestein said:
I mean, a thread that just posts the same Twitter screenshots could be locked, but if extra info comes out on this then that'd be very important.
- 1,670
- 145
After taking into consideration both Matt and proms and xcanos arguments, here's how I see it.
Let's say I'm on staircase and this staircase goes on forever or infinity so to speak, and each step on this staircase is infinitely bigger than the next and so on and so forth, now let's say I can walk up these stair cases,however just becasue I can continually walk up the staircase does not mean I transcend the stair case itself.
Destroying a planet doesn't mean you transcend heavenly bodies, and just because let's say a 1-B character can destroy another 1-B character, doesn't make them 1-A
So my point is I don't think proms statement of destroying infinite dimensions means transcending all dimensions.
Let's say I'm on staircase and this staircase goes on forever or infinity so to speak, and each step on this staircase is infinitely bigger than the next and so on and so forth, now let's say I can walk up these stair cases,however just becasue I can continually walk up the staircase does not mean I transcend the stair case itself.
Destroying a planet doesn't mean you transcend heavenly bodies, and just because let's say a 1-B character can destroy another 1-B character, doesn't make them 1-A
So my point is I don't think proms statement of destroying infinite dimensions means transcending all dimensions.
- 1,670
- 145
Did not see that okay I concedeRyukama said:
- 11,486
- 7,697
My overall stance is, Toriyama can say Goku never fought Frieza and that Vegeta defeated him on Twitter all he wants and maybe even mean it too, the story itself obviously goes against that.
Regardless of the WoG statements, there are lines within Demonbane (at least some of the less ambiguous, up for interpretation ones) that indicate something by this Tiering System's standards which would be 1-A.
That on top of the fact that the author has admitted to not knowing everything about Demonbane and doesn't speak English, I'm fine with the ratings remaining as they are unless something else more drastic occurs.
But that's really as much as I have to say. I'm alright with whatever the majority of staff decides upon.
Regardless of the WoG statements, there are lines within Demonbane (at least some of the less ambiguous, up for interpretation ones) that indicate something by this Tiering System's standards which would be 1-A.
That on top of the fact that the author has admitted to not knowing everything about Demonbane and doesn't speak English, I'm fine with the ratings remaining as they are unless something else more drastic occurs.
But that's really as much as I have to say. I'm alright with whatever the majority of staff decides upon.
- 2,072
- 240
I'll drop my arguments regarding my disapproval on how the demonbane rule is worded, specifically the parts regarding "twitter to be the lowest form of evidence" etc for the time being; I'll only bring it up if the problems I described earlier happen on a consistent basis.
No issues with how Demonbane is given their tier rating.
In support of the rule I had implemented earlier, I think it would make certain topics much more bearable to deal with e.g Superman is omnipotent etc
These are my final thoughts on the matter.
No issues with how Demonbane is given their tier rating.
In support of the rule I had implemented earlier, I think it would make certain topics much more bearable to deal with e.g Superman is omnipotent etc
These are my final thoughts on the matter.
- 19,062
- 6,332
I agree with Matt and Ryukama
- 167,325
- 75,821
I also agree with Matthew and Ryukama. The reason why I think that the author has severely changed his mind, or does not remember, is because DYN Freaks uses an extremely lower "sandbox" scale compared with the original series, which uses plenty of lovecraftian concepts.
- 167,325
- 75,821
Anyway, I have inserted a new editing rule:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Editing_Rules&diff=1064078&oldid=1046256
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/index.php?title=Editing_Rules&diff=1064078&oldid=1046256
- 167,325
- 75,821
I would appreciate input regarding whether this and this should be under Site Rules, Editing Rules, or Discussion Rules? Or are the regulations appropriately placed already?
- 167,325
- 75,821
To no surprise to anybody, it seems like "BeyonderGod" has deliberately distorted the replies from the author:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/616627
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/616627
- 167,325
- 75,821
I hope that this is not necessary. I linked to Ven's explanation blog earlier.
Anyway, about the 2 new rules: Did I place them in the right pages, or should we move either of them somewhere else?
Anyway, about the 2 new rules: Did I place them in the right pages, or should we move either of them somewhere else?
- 2,334
- 312
We all already settled Demonbane was 1-A based on the "This goes on infinitely forever, with each higher level of Infinity and Eternity" statement, which I recommended should be clarified in the articles since this seems to be the only one even with Ven's blog.Sera Loveheart said:
Similar threads
- Locked
