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Saint Seiya Upgrades #13 - Complex Dimensions

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Matthew_Schroeder

Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
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Hello everyone, hope you're all well.

Recently I've been reading the Classic Saint Seiya Manga, and came across relevant new information.

We all know that Chronos embodies the entirety of the Saint Seiya Verse, being all of Space and all of Time, and beyond. It's the reason it is a 2-A entity.

Firstly, some context:

In Chapter 35, there is the fight between Phoenix Ikki and Virgo Shaka, which is finished by Ikki with a suicide move that sends both him and Shaka flying Light-Years away from Earth, both seemingly dying in a fiery explosion.

In Chapter 43 of the Classic Series, it is learned that Shaka is still alive when he telephatically comunicates with Aries Mu. Ikki's attack didn't destroy him, but rather broke space-time and made Shaka end up trapped in a Complex Higher Dimension...

Wait, what?

Yep. A complex dimension, you heard that right:

SS Complex Dimension
The line in Portuguese:

"Sim, Mu. Por favor, venha me ajudar. Eu passei para uma dimensão complexa."

Translated into English:

"Yes, Mu. Please, come help me. I'm trapped in a complex dimension."

This pretty much confirms the existence of Higher Spatial Dimensions in Saint Seiya. I don't see any other reason the specific term "Complex Dimension" would be used considering the context. And considering that Chronos is meant to be the entirety of the Saint Seiya Verse, being all of Space and Time and beyond, I don't see why this wouldn't apply to him.

In short, Chronos would go from 2-A to High 2-A, and the reasoning would become:

"High Multiverse level+ (Embodies the entirety of existence, being all of space and all of time, and beyond. The Saint Seiya Multiverse is shown to contain Higher Complex Dimensions)

Does this make sense to you guys?
 
Yes, Dimensions and Complex Dimension are present in the Saint Seya continuity, also God should scale to this.
 
Also, can i add Multi-Universal striking strength to the gods and all the god cloth users, since it should be equal to the ap.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
No. I don't think we can scale this to God, and the God Cloth Users aren't Multi-Universal.
Click to expand...
I understand, but could scale to the other gods (like Hades) since Saturn (who is a god) managed to trade blows with Omega Cloth Kouga and Abzu (both has Multi-Universal striking strength).
 
How are you so sure that Complex Dimension means a higher spatial dimension? Couldn't he just be trapped in a dimension that was complex to get out of or just a dimension that looked complex?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Because "Complex Dimension" and "Complex Numbers" are mathematical concepts, and they are more related with the dimensional-space than what you are suggested. No one would say "This is complex to get out", it's a line that makes little sense, and how would a dimension even look complex?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Complex_dimension

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_space

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_affine_space
Click to expand...
Then how do these complex dimensions translate to high 2-A? I know what a complex number is, but I have no idea how this would work in our tiering system. And to be honest saying this is complex to get out does make sense, atleast to me. People call solving a Rubix Cube a complex task to do, so couldn't this be interpreted like that?
 
A complex dimension refers to it being complex in it's spatial structure, not being merely a 4th-Dimensional Space-Time Continuum. Saying that it is complex because it's "Complex to get out" is incredibly unnatural speech, and it's applying something other than the scientific meaning of the word.
 
That's speculation from your part though, shaka's statement could very well only be referring to the fact the dimension has unnatural properties, much like the hyperdimension which is not considered an higher dimensional space on the wiki terms, not to mention you're trying to base this off from an uncorroborated statement simply because the words used to describe it match up with some real life scientific concepts.

You probably should be posting direct japanese scans, becuase there is no way for us to tell that the translation uses the same words to describe it and even so shaka doesn't explain it in high detail to assume he is indeed talking about what you say.

It's not nearly as straightforward as other statements in the series regarding scientific concepts either, all of what you post are scientific theories that could have not even been taken into consideration by the authors when building the SS cosmology.
 
I disagree with this as well, as stated it is incredibly vague. Many of the links posted also mention lower dimensions can still be involved yet be called "complex".
 
@AguilaR101 and @TheMightyRegulator Glad some people have the ability to express properly what they mean, because this is what I was trying to say :D
 
By the way, Chronos transcends a 4-D construct, so he still should be High 2-A, just saying.
 
That's a completely different approach but depends on current interpretations of the tier, do we take embodiments of time and space to also be higher-dimensional?

Chronos is indeed the embodiment of an infinite multiverse but as such his existence is likely limited to the same 4D space he represents.
 
That's not really convincing, at least to me, mainly because your scans don't exactly clarify what level of space time this guy is in and doesn't really prove that this is not just one of the single continums chronos already trascends, on the flipside though if that is full blown 4-D construct I suppose an upgrade is warranted.


perhaps more scans are needed to give proper context to those, but that's just me.
 
@AguilaR101

Aren't you the guy who wanted Infinite Speed 2-B Zeno, or is that the other guy? < Irrelevant biased comment.

Well, regardless, Chronos transcends the Spatial-Temporal spectrum and the entirety of every single timeline in the Multiverse / Macrocosmos, and is said to exist beyond it as well.

We currently rank numerous characters at High 2-A for being existences higher than 2-A Space-Time.
 
"Aren't you the guy who wanted Infinite Speed 2-B Zeno, or is that the other guy?"

I don't think that has any relevance to this and I have never pushed for 2-B dragonball, infinite speed is also being currently considered for Zeno so I don't see why you feel the need to bring this up.


"Well, regardless, Chronos transcends the Spatial-Temporal spectrum and the entirety of every single timeline in the Multiverse / Macrocosmos, and is said to exist beyond it as well."

That's certainly a more solid argument than the one you originally presented though, If that's the case the there is no reason he shouldn't be high 2-A.

Edit: Still, you should post scans where all of this is stated in the profile if accepted.
 
Chronos_3.jpg


This is the scan in question.

"(...) pueden verse todas las nebulosas del macrocosmos. En este lugar se mezclan el pasado y el futuro. Es le mundo que transcends al tiempo"

The translation:

"(...) you can see all nebulae of the macrocosmos / multiverse. In this place, past and future are one. It is the world which transcends time itself."

Keep in mind that this isn't Chronos, but merely the portion of his self that the deities, including 4th Dimensonal Universal+ Olympians and the like, can see and interact with. His full self is unknown and unfathomable to even them.

In Episode G it is made clear that the Multiverse consists of countless timelines each with their own Physical Universe (Sekai), Underworld (Meikai) and Heaven (Tenkai), as well as numerous other universes / space-time continuums.
 
In short, Chronos is an incomprehenseble being even to the likes of the Olympians, and he is said to transcend them, much like they transcend humans. He is an unseen deity, and the mere "Physical" aspect of him that Athena communicates with is an amalgamation of all of time in the entirety of the Multiverse.

How he isn't High 2-A is beyond me.
 
^Most likely because during a particularly recent thread (comparatively to others anyway) we decided transcending 4 dimensional structures is still just 4 dimensional.
 
the english version i remember states something like "between space-time" nothing about complex dimension
 
Yeah, every translation I checked said something completely different. I don't think it's a good point anymore.
 
I agree with this for reasons above. Matt has shown that Chronos transcends the Olympians and Titans that same way they transcend humans and the Macrocosmos is only a part of Chronos. Tiv also showed that Gladiators hang out in All Space and Time and Chronos is above all of that. Also if Shaka who can go through dimensions and realms can't comprehend the dimension he was sent and needed the help of Mu to get out of then it's clearly something different altogether.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Chronos_3.jpg
is the scan in question.
"(...) pueden verse todas las nebulosas del macrocosmos. En este lugar se mezclan el pasado y el futuro. Es le mundo que transcends al tiempo"

The translation:

"(...) you can see all nebulae of the macrocosmos / multiverse. In this place, past and future are one. It is the world which transcends time itself."
Click to expand...
Correction.

Direct translation of that reads:

"You (plural) can see all the nubulae of the macrocosm (another word for universe). In this place, the mixutres of the past and future... the world that transcends time".
 
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