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Alright. I've had a bunch of small revisions that have built up over a good long while. None of which were big enough to warrant their own thread, but still somewhat important. Many of this will be lacking scans and work based on arguments of stuff that happens all the time in Fate, since I'm not sure how to use individual scans to create a universal trend.
Assassin Wu needs conceptual manip. Her Noble Phantasm is another plane of existence, where the very concepts of Life and Death are blurred . Her targets are kept in a constant state of torture, in a state of both Life and Death simultaneously. In addition, she needs Law Manipulation
The Hassan in general should have a unified tier for their dirks. They all use the same weapons, and they all have the same piercing power. I say we just take Cursed Arm Hassan's tier and plaster that for "With Dirks" on the other profiles. I also want to specify that the dirks of Hundred Faced Hassan do not change in tier with their stat changes. First off, the dagger spontaneously wavering in stats as it is passed from part of Hassan to part of Hassan, makes absolutely no sense. Second, this explains how, even when they are fully divided, they are still a loose threat to servants. This is illustrated in the Accel Zero Order event where an almost completely divided Hassan is still considered a low level threat to other servants, which makes no sense (other than for Gozul, but we will get to him) when they are supposed to still be Wall Level. Random foot soldier Hassans even warrant enough of a threat for Waver to deploy his Noble Phantasm multiple times. While the usual argument is that they can take on enemies by swarming them, this makes no sense if they cannot event scratch the foe they face, and don't even have enough strength to knock them around. The only way for their ability to overwhelm make any sense at all is if they have some means of dealing at least low level damage to enemy servants, which is what the dirks are.
Gozul The Strong should be tiered apart from the other members of the Hundred Faced Hassan (Here is the interlude . I'll give time stamps throughout this section for the part I am referring to). Unlike the others, he is focused almost souly on brute strength (14:58), and even when Hassan was basically completely divided, they were still able to overpower (22:06) and keep up with (13:58) Berserker Kintoki and Beowolf at the same time (14:22). The idea of all the Hassan being of a uniform strength that is totally reduced while divided is clearly outdated, and has long sine been retconned. The idea of Gozul being basically a brute force fighter and that's it, is supported by the fact that he is seen in the Attack animation of Hundred Faced Hassan attacking in short bursts on his own, not relying on swarms like the others are. On the flip side, The child Hassan should always be at minimum stats for a servant, instead of being boosted like the others, since her whole point is to be weak and defenseless.
Musashi's Fate Manip bypasses durability . It has been up in the air for a while but Shimosa confirmed it.
Ritsuka should have their ability to summon the servants of Chaldea to their side and aid them in combat more notably addressed on their profiles. They should have Varies via summoning. This summoning makes such a difference in combat that Ritsuka regaining the ability to summon servants in Shimosa let them basically carry Musashi and Lancer for a few battles . This confirms that their ability to summon servants is not only no longer contingent on their connection to leylines, but it is acknowledged as basically Ritsuka's style of fighting throughout Shimosa. Ritsuka in no way needs prep to summon servants, assuming their magic is working properly. It is also not simply a gameplay thing, if that was a question to begin with. At the point where the servant themselves are considered a part of their combat moveset of a specific mage in lore, we should count them as well.
Edison Needs a Key or at least an extra part for his range. During the Paul Bunyan event, he manages to effect all of Chicago with his NP. Now, this may not sound that impressive, but for context, Bunyan had expanded it all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. On the east, it reached all the way to The Iberian Peninsula, and on the west, it reached all the way to Japan's Nerima District . The enitre population had been turned into Wendigo, but he used his NP to not only restore but maintain the existence of the city and its people. All of them were restored . Basically, he should be whatever the equivolent to Intercontinetnal is in our range tiering via World Faith Domination: Anniversary Eddition.
Alright, this one is more of a question. Should Shiki's Fate/Extra version be another key on her main profile or a distinct one like her servant profiles? If it should be added, then I shall provide scans for it. Otherwise, I'll just build a profile.
Both BB (Fate/Extra CCC) and Kazuradrop should have Cursed Cupid Cleanser added to their profiles, since the ability is a lesser usage of powers they already have prior to their ascension, so they can obviously use it. Basically, I'll add what I posted bellow to the profiles:
Cursed Cupid Cleanser: C.C.C.
Cursed Cupid Cleanser: C.C.C.: A Noble Phantasm BB devised after growing bored of Cursed Cutting Crater. BB enters imaginary space before rewriting reality with a special version of her BB Channel Reality Marble, where she is the producer, host, and game master. She then plunges her opponent into complete chaos as she herself transforms into an "invincible nurse" that injects all the curses of Cursed Cutting Crater into her target.
Now to start on an addition to The Type profiles, and will be a start to the many problems with them. I have typed out a quick description of the missing power. The profiles mention the lack of concept of death, but fail to mention that death is one of many things that they lack. This is an over all thing displayed throughout the novel, but I'll provide scans for the specific examples later when I get the chance.
Most of the Tsukihime and Melty Blood characters who can engage in combat and effect TATARI need at least some limited form of conceptual manipulation that let's them attack type 1 abstracts. All TATARI users should also have Power Bestowel since they managed to grant Miyako full blown Bajiqua on the level of a Master (like Kirei or Li Shuwen). In addition, just as Servants have a categroy, Dead Apostles and their varients should have a category of their own, so they are easier to find and apply broad changes to in the future.
This is more of a general thing, but a good number of the NP that have conceptual effects (I'm not talking about those that just embody them, I mean those that have conceptual effects) are missing conceptual manip from their profiles, and this needs to be added.
Anyone with A rank charisma and above should have their mind Hax no longer called 'minor.' Scaling from Romulus's use of Charisma under Imperial Privilege, just their presence can make usually up. This is pretty simple but anyone with A rank charisma or above should simply scale to a fellow user of a comparable or superior rank. I'm just gonna let the already established profile description speak for itself:
Type 8 Immortality for Jeanne Alter. Seemingly, even if she is killed (like she was in Orleans) she will still appear elsewhere as long as her concept remains. Not directly combat applicable, but it is still notable enough for it to be added to her profile.
Now for a question, and possibly a downgrade. Is there an example of Roa using his Regenerationn under the full moon without the use of his Bounded Field of Restoration? While the context makes it clear that he could not have regenerated from Marble Phantasm had it not been the full moon, I'm not sure why we just ignored that he has a field of restoration likely at least enhancing his Regenerationn.
Resistance to Soul Manipulation for All Nasuverse characters that have a body and/or a Mind, since said body/mind will protect them from soul manipulation. Yes, this seems to be largely due to the nature of the Nasu cosmology in general, but I'm not sure how verse equalization will work. This also means that all soul manipulation in the nasuverse that works on a target while they have a body/mind are able to at least somewhat bypass resistance/defenses to soul based attacks. On a note of personal interpretation, this is probably why Servants must kill their targets before consuming their souls. Quote from Kiara's mats:
Not sure if it is worth adding, but all Servants technically have Type 9 immortality on their throne record, but the only ones whom it is actually combat applicable for are active Counter Guardians who are repeatedly deployed even after their destruction. This would scale for all servants who have a seat in The Throne of Heroes.
Fou needs to get added under Extra Class servants, as he is FGO's timeline version of the Primate Murderer, and is canonically considered a Beast, albeit an incredibly weakened one.
In additon to just Invisibility and Intangibility, servants should also have limited Flight in spirit form as well. Here is an example (4:08) of Lancer Diarmuid flying up to a plane in spirit form. also, anyone with Innocent Monster (who gains positive effects from it) need Empowerment for obvious reasons. They are directly warped by, and gain power from, the legends and beliefs of others, more so than most other servants.
Alright, I think that is everything I have for now.
Other New Stuff:
Tiamat and Angra Mainyu need corruption, for obvious reasons. as well as resistance to it for Shirou and Gilgamesh. Other servants could get it too because of Tiamat
Absorption resistances to Servants and Magi, Shirou, as completely incompetent mage, can still remain active. Both Saber and Archer were fine as well, so servants in general need it. Here are some of the scenes of her using it.
Medea Lily also needs the ability to summon a demon god pillar with the proper catalyst. This was a joke tho, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Loki Laevanteinn or whatever it was called is supposed to hold absolute priority over living beings with form and flesh, even over other gods, but it doesn't affect Servants at all because they are merely magical energy resembling life and with the likeness and powers of other souls copypasted into them. For this reason, they should have resistance to life manip. Here is some stuff about that .
Bullet Point Summary:
Assassin Wu needs conceptual manip. Her Noble Phantasm is another plane of existence, where the very concepts of Life and Death are blurred . Her targets are kept in a constant state of torture, in a state of both Life and Death simultaneously. In addition, she needs Law Manipulation
- G├áomì Luózh─½ J─½ng (Manual of Accusation): A Noble Phantasm named after a manual possessed by inquisitors during her reign, essentially a how-to book on torture and interrogation serving to increase the number of criminals. Its activation is akin to materializing a law that "she freely allows for criminals to be produced", turning her into the "one who tortures" while her opponent becomes, without resistance, the "target to be tortured". Aside from a multitude of other torture devices, she currently makes use of broken wine jars and poison that she commonly used against her political enemies
The Hassan in general should have a unified tier for their dirks. They all use the same weapons, and they all have the same piercing power. I say we just take Cursed Arm Hassan's tier and plaster that for "With Dirks" on the other profiles. I also want to specify that the dirks of Hundred Faced Hassan do not change in tier with their stat changes. First off, the dagger spontaneously wavering in stats as it is passed from part of Hassan to part of Hassan, makes absolutely no sense. Second, this explains how, even when they are fully divided, they are still a loose threat to servants. This is illustrated in the Accel Zero Order event where an almost completely divided Hassan is still considered a low level threat to other servants, which makes no sense (other than for Gozul, but we will get to him) when they are supposed to still be Wall Level. Random foot soldier Hassans even warrant enough of a threat for Waver to deploy his Noble Phantasm multiple times. While the usual argument is that they can take on enemies by swarming them, this makes no sense if they cannot event scratch the foe they face, and don't even have enough strength to knock them around. The only way for their ability to overwhelm make any sense at all is if they have some means of dealing at least low level damage to enemy servants, which is what the dirks are.
Gozul The Strong should be tiered apart from the other members of the Hundred Faced Hassan (Here is the interlude . I'll give time stamps throughout this section for the part I am referring to). Unlike the others, he is focused almost souly on brute strength (14:58), and even when Hassan was basically completely divided, they were still able to overpower (22:06) and keep up with (13:58) Berserker Kintoki and Beowolf at the same time (14:22). The idea of all the Hassan being of a uniform strength that is totally reduced while divided is clearly outdated, and has long sine been retconned. The idea of Gozul being basically a brute force fighter and that's it, is supported by the fact that he is seen in the Attack animation of Hundred Faced Hassan attacking in short bursts on his own, not relying on swarms like the others are. On the flip side, The child Hassan should always be at minimum stats for a servant, instead of being boosted like the others, since her whole point is to be weak and defenseless.
Musashi's Fate Manip bypasses durability . It has been up in the air for a while but Shimosa confirmed it.
Ritsuka should have their ability to summon the servants of Chaldea to their side and aid them in combat more notably addressed on their profiles. They should have Varies via summoning. This summoning makes such a difference in combat that Ritsuka regaining the ability to summon servants in Shimosa let them basically carry Musashi and Lancer for a few battles . This confirms that their ability to summon servants is not only no longer contingent on their connection to leylines, but it is acknowledged as basically Ritsuka's style of fighting throughout Shimosa. Ritsuka in no way needs prep to summon servants, assuming their magic is working properly. It is also not simply a gameplay thing, if that was a question to begin with. At the point where the servant themselves are considered a part of their combat moveset of a specific mage in lore, we should count them as well.
Edison Needs a Key or at least an extra part for his range. During the Paul Bunyan event, he manages to effect all of Chicago with his NP. Now, this may not sound that impressive, but for context, Bunyan had expanded it all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. On the east, it reached all the way to The Iberian Peninsula, and on the west, it reached all the way to Japan's Nerima District . The enitre population had been turned into Wendigo, but he used his NP to not only restore but maintain the existence of the city and its people. All of them were restored . Basically, he should be whatever the equivolent to Intercontinetnal is in our range tiering via World Faith Domination: Anniversary Eddition.
Alright, this one is more of a question. Should Shiki's Fate/Extra version be another key on her main profile or a distinct one like her servant profiles? If it should be added, then I shall provide scans for it. Otherwise, I'll just build a profile.
Both BB (Fate/Extra CCC) and Kazuradrop should have Cursed Cupid Cleanser added to their profiles, since the ability is a lesser usage of powers they already have prior to their ascension, so they can obviously use it. Basically, I'll add what I posted bellow to the profiles:
Cursed Cupid Cleanser: C.C.C.
BB Channel! Oh, this won't do! But don't worry. This is a job for BB-chan! Absolute Recovery: Cursed Cupid Cleanser! Fufu, did the injection hurt? | ||
~ BB activating her Noble Phantasm |
Now to start on an addition to The Type profiles, and will be a start to the many problems with them. I have typed out a quick description of the missing power. The profiles mention the lack of concept of death, but fail to mention that death is one of many things that they lack. This is an over all thing displayed throughout the novel, but I'll provide scans for the specific examples later when I get the chance.
- Alien Conceptual Nature: The Types are beings not merely from another planet, but another World, with their own sets of concepts and nature of reality. Even when they move into another World, they continue to follow the rules of their native World. Unless the concepts are either present in their home World, or they are applied by an external force, attacks based on said concepts will have no effect. For example, Types will be unbound from the concept of Death unless it is applied to them. Most Types cannot even take lasting damage due to lacking the concept of "Scaring."
Most of the Tsukihime and Melty Blood characters who can engage in combat and effect TATARI need at least some limited form of conceptual manipulation that let's them attack type 1 abstracts. All TATARI users should also have Power Bestowel since they managed to grant Miyako full blown Bajiqua on the level of a Master (like Kirei or Li Shuwen). In addition, just as Servants have a categroy, Dead Apostles and their varients should have a category of their own, so they are easier to find and apply broad changes to in the future.
This is more of a general thing, but a good number of the NP that have conceptual effects (I'm not talking about those that just embody them, I mean those that have conceptual effects) are missing conceptual manip from their profiles, and this needs to be added.
Anyone with A rank charisma and above should have their mind Hax no longer called 'minor.' Scaling from Romulus's use of Charisma under Imperial Privilege, just their presence can make usually up. This is pretty simple but anyone with A rank charisma or above should simply scale to a fellow user of a comparable or superior rank. I'm just gonna let the already established profile description speak for itself:
- An ability consisting of one's natural charm as well as their talent at leading an army into battle. Romulus possesses incredible superhuman charisma. His entrance on the battlefield alone is enough to shatter the confidence and morale of Nero, his normally optimistic and confident descendant, who is nearly rendered speechless at his presence. In addition, his previously fleeing soldiers were emboldened to restore their failing defensive line while ordinary citizens lunged at armed soldiers without a second thought. This also acts a subtle form of mind manipulation, nearly causing Nero to align herself with his forces despite being staunchly opposed to his troops in the past.
Type 8 Immortality for Jeanne Alter. Seemingly, even if she is killed (like she was in Orleans) she will still appear elsewhere as long as her concept remains. Not directly combat applicable, but it is still notable enough for it to be added to her profile.
Now for a question, and possibly a downgrade. Is there an example of Roa using his Regenerationn under the full moon without the use of his Bounded Field of Restoration? While the context makes it clear that he could not have regenerated from Marble Phantasm had it not been the full moon, I'm not sure why we just ignored that he has a field of restoration likely at least enhancing his Regenerationn.
Resistance to Soul Manipulation for All Nasuverse characters that have a body and/or a Mind, since said body/mind will protect them from soul manipulation. Yes, this seems to be largely due to the nature of the Nasu cosmology in general, but I'm not sure how verse equalization will work. This also means that all soul manipulation in the nasuverse that works on a target while they have a body/mind are able to at least somewhat bypass resistance/defenses to soul based attacks. On a note of personal interpretation, this is probably why Servants must kill their targets before consuming their souls. Quote from Kiara's mats:
- "It was a medical software that separated others into "body, mind and soul", laying their souls bare (that is, in a condition that is not being protected by the body and the mind) in order to hear their troubles and remove their pains.
Of course, that was only a front. "
Not sure if it is worth adding, but all Servants technically have Type 9 immortality on their throne record, but the only ones whom it is actually combat applicable for are active Counter Guardians who are repeatedly deployed even after their destruction. This would scale for all servants who have a seat in The Throne of Heroes.
Fou needs to get added under Extra Class servants, as he is FGO's timeline version of the Primate Murderer, and is canonically considered a Beast, albeit an incredibly weakened one.
In additon to just Invisibility and Intangibility, servants should also have limited Flight in spirit form as well. Here is an example (4:08) of Lancer Diarmuid flying up to a plane in spirit form. also, anyone with Innocent Monster (who gains positive effects from it) need Empowerment for obvious reasons. They are directly warped by, and gain power from, the legends and beliefs of others, more so than most other servants.
Alright, I think that is everything I have for now.
Other New Stuff:
Tiamat and Angra Mainyu need corruption, for obvious reasons. as well as resistance to it for Shirou and Gilgamesh. Other servants could get it too because of Tiamat
Absorption resistances to Servants and Magi, Shirou, as completely incompetent mage, can still remain active. Both Saber and Archer were fine as well, so servants in general need it. Here are some of the scenes of her using it.
Medea Lily also needs the ability to summon a demon god pillar with the proper catalyst. This was a joke tho, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
Loki Laevanteinn or whatever it was called is supposed to hold absolute priority over living beings with form and flesh, even over other gods, but it doesn't affect Servants at all because they are merely magical energy resembling life and with the likeness and powers of other souls copypasted into them. For this reason, they should have resistance to life manip. Here is some stuff about that .
Bullet Point Summary:
- Wu needs both Concept and Law Manip.
- Fergus Lily needs a key
- All the dirks of the Hassan are equally powerful.
- Stronk Hassan and Baby Hassan have fixed tiers of 7-A+ and 9-B respectively.
- Musashi get durability negation on top of her fate manip
- Ritsuka summoning Servants is combat applicable and does not require prep. For these reasons, it should be reflected better on their page
- Edison got multi-continental range that one time
- Should Fate/Extra Shiki be her own profile or just a new key?
- Both CCC BB and Kazuradrop get Cursed Cupid Cleanser.
- The Types are lacking the rest of their conceptually unbound nature.
- Some TATARI scaling. Also, dead apostles should get their own category.
- A Bunch of NP are missing their concept hax.
- Charisma of A rank or higher is passive mind hax now.
- Jalter gets type 8
- Roa regen downgrade, maybe.
- Everyone who has a body gets Soul Manip resistance.
- All servants get Type 9 immortality, but its a lot lamer than it sounds.
- Fou is a beast, and he should be listed as one.
- General minor servant ability additions
- Angra Mainyu and Tiamat get corruption.
- Shirou and Gil need resistance to it. Other servants may scale as well
- Servants and Magi need resistance to absorption due to being able to remain active during Blood Fort Andromeda
- Medea Lily can summon a demon god pillar with the proper catalyst
