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DBZ God Tier upgrade?

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Mickey1940

Mickey1940

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http://i.imgur.com/rQwHfTi.png

This is what Vados says what will happen if Beerus and Champa fight each other

Zeno is 2C because he destroyed multiple separate universes

Last I checked, 2 Low 2Cs can't perform a 2C feat, yet destroying Universe 6 and 7 at the same time is a 2C feat

so should the GoDs, Angels, Jiren, and Goku be upgraded to 2C?
 
Maybe, maybe not. We don't know how they would have destroyed the two universes. I also think that this has been discussed and rejected by other staff members several times previously.
 
so how come some statements in fiction are accepted and some aren't?

For the "how" part of the arguement, considering how everything in DBZ relates to AP (hakai and ki blasts are both AP), it doesn't matter how they do it. If they do it, then they have the stats to do so. The GoDs don't have reality warping, so there wouldn't be any other way to destroy the 2 universes other than destroying them through sheer power
 
The major thing about Low 2-C vs. 2-C, as I understand it, is that Low 2-C extends to 4 dimensions while 2-C is 5. Also, that the gap between Low 2-C and 2-C isn't something you can breach just by being much stronger than baseline Low 2-C. You could be 1,000,000x Baseline Low 2-C and still not be 2-C.

As I recall, one discussion about this included the possibility that the GoDs could be the strongest Low 2-Cs on site because, when looking at the logic "GoDs are an unquantifiable level of Low 2-C that when multiplied by two, would reach 2-C."

As such, I'm neutral about this and just more curious what will come from this more than anything else.
 
two low 2-C gods can not generate a 2-C energy so it would contradict the system to consider the gods only low 2-C, that is to say practically stating that 2x low 2-C is 2-C, I think they should be updated.
 
no, they were literally swapping punches and the impacts were consuming the place, so Vados and Whiss had to stop the fight so the impacts did not keep increasing.
 
I don't really understand the reasoning given for the potential destruction of 2 universes with supposedly separate spacetimes not being 2-C.
 
wow

I actually possibly contributed to changing character pages

i feel accomplished somewhat
 
I feel like we should get a bunch of other staff into this thread. Because again, I've been preaching this since the beginning and repeatedly has this reasoning been shot down and rejected. For reasons I don't understand personally, but still.

And back then it wasn't even just the anime that said this, the manga also said that Beerus vs Champa would destroy both universes and it isn't even with them trading blows, it's literally just two big ki blasts that resembles nothing of like a Hakai Ball that Toppo uses.
 
I am personally not opposed to 2-C GoDs and above, but we need more input from administrators and bureaucrats first: VS Battles Staff
 
So is this giving chararcters beyond the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, like SSJ2 Kefla and GoD Toppo, a solid 2-C rating as well?
 
Well, all characters of GoD level and above, with Zen'o placed as "At least 2-C, likely higher", I suppose.

However, somebody needs to politely ask some administrators and bureaucrats to comment here first, via their message walls.
 
It makes sense for the upgrade because it would go against what Zeno did.

Also, I would like more input form other staff members who are expert on this.

Neutral for now, although leaning towards agreeing.
 
No. Vehemently disagreeing with this as ive always had. As Ant said before, this has been brought up, discussed, and rejected multiple times before for the exact same reasons and has ended the exact same way. Im honestly surprised this isnt even a discussion rule.

Destroying 2 universes with 2 Low 2-C's =/= both being 2-C individually. Its literally taking the power of one Low 2-C and combining it with another Low 2-C to do something that equals the value of the 2, which is baseline 2-C. Its a shared feat and thus cannot be applied to Beerus and Champa, who cannot destroy both U6 and U7 individually.

Adding to this, the feat isnt even destruction on a space-time level. Because as soon as Beerus and Champa start fighting, the table beneath them only starts to turn to dust, slowly. So not only is this an immediate feat, it's also not a feat that would effect the space-time of both universes.
 
"As Ant said before, this has been brought up, discussed, and rejected multiple times before for the exact same reasons and has ended the exact same way."

But... it was me who brought it up... :(

"Destroying 2 universes with 2 Low 2-C's =/= both being 2-C individually. Its literally taking the power of one Low 2-C and combining it with another Low 2-C to do something that equals the value of the 2, which is baseline 2-C. Its a shared feat and thus cannot be applied to Beerus and Champa, who cannot destroy both U6 and U7 individually."

No, 2 Low 2-Cs clashing cannot be 2-C. If they share a 2-C feat then they both HAVE to be 2-C since you cannot jump from Low 2-C to 2-C via doubling your power or such.

"Adding to this, the feat isnt even destruction on a space-time level. Because as soon as Beerus and Champa start fighting, the table beneath them only starts to turn to dust, slowly. So not only is this an immediate feat, it's also not a feat that would effect the space-time of both universes."

So you take a feat of them not even fighting seriously as a feat for them at 100%? The whole reason they were stopped was because the battle was going to escalate; the table turning to dust slowly wasn't even close to their maximum power at the time.
 
Antvasima said:
Maybe, maybe not. We don't know how they would have destroyed the two universes. I also think that this has been discussed and rejected by other staff members several times previously.
Click to expand...
This is what I meant
 
We've discussed topics that were rejected countless times well after the fact Kukui. That shouldn't mean this is automatically closed just because.
 
Edited my post btw to address some of your points.

Also oh. My bad then.

But I still brought it up first. Hiss
 
Well, I am neutral about this, and not very well informed, so I should probably stay out of it.
 
the difference between low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable, a low 2-C would not be 2-C even if its power were multiplied thousands of times, so bills and champa are impossible to generate a 2-C energy being only low 2-C
 
... what? No, Kukui, 2 Low 2-Cs combined power flat out CANNOT be 2-C with our system. If they share a 2-C feat then they both HAVE to be 2-C since the jump is not any finite number. They both have to have started out 2-C for the feat to ever be a possibility.
 
>No, 2 Low 2-Cs clashing cannot be 2-C.

Yes, you can. Its one Low 2-C destroying 1 universe and another Low 2-C destroying the other universe, hence a shared feat. Its not something that can be applied to either one individually.

Your point would be stronger if Beerus and Champa were going to destroy more than 2 universes because then the feat wouldnt be split evenly.

>If they share a 2-C feat then they both HAVE to be 2-C since you cannot jump from Low 2-C to 2-C via doubling your power or such.

This isn't "doubling" in the sense of just multiplying your power. This is literally combining the power of 2 separate individuals to pull of something that neither one can do individually on their own. Neither Beerus or Champa are doubling their own power to do this, they are combining their power together to do something both are needed to do.

If 2 5-B's were to cause 2 planets to be obliterated by their fight, neither one would be able to destroy the said 2 planets on their own. So why assume Beerus or Champa could destroy 2 universes on their own when they explicitly, specifically, and most definitely cant without the others help?

>So you take a feat of them not even fighting seriously as a feat for them at 100%? The whole reason they were stopped was because the battle was going to escalate; the table turning to dust slowly wasn't even close to their maximum power at the time.

Of course not. But thats not justification to claim they can do something on an entirely different scale just because they weren't going 100%. There is not a single bit of evidence that proves Beerus and Champa at this point, even if they could destroy both universes quickly, could effect and destroy the space-times of both universes, which is the main requirement for this to be a tier 2 feat at all.
 
You know, going to take part in this because why not? Last thing I may be able to contribute to this site.


The simple matter of this feat is that it would be 2-C - And unless we want to disregard the very system we use, then individually they must also be 2-C for this to happen. 2 Low 2-C's according to our system, CANNOT perform this, so for this feat to only be possible - Individually the must also be 2-C.

Here are some very similar cases - Take for example, it takes two people to shake a world in which is infinite in size, or perhaps even just an individual just doing this. To do this - Both would be infinite in power - and would thus be granted High 3-A even *though* they didn't destroy it, nor did they do it individually, but the feat still required an infinite amount according to our system. Likewise - According to our system, both would need to be individually 2-C to also perform this feat.


So unless someone wanted to revaluate how we do things - or call this an Outlier. This should be applicable.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
We've discussed topics that were rejected countless times well after the fact Kukui. That shouldn't mean this is automatically closed just because.
Click to expand...
It should if the discussion ends up exactly the same way as the previous rejected proposals. Which this is. There is literally nothing new in this discussion than in the previous ones about trying to make the GoD's 2-C.
 
Well since there is no difference between 3-A and Low-2C in Dragon Ball. It safe to say the same for Low-2C and 2-C.

Am I wrong here?
 
Is there any explicit proof, beside speculation to make it seem to work for a specific reason , that Champa and Beerus were destroying their individual universes separately instead of together... Because everything having to do with context completely implies they are doing it together... Not separately doing each reality.
 
They should not be upgraded to 2-C because there is no evidence that they would've destroyed space-time rather than just the matter in their respective universes. Low 2-C comes solely from Infinite Zamasu scaling.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Is there any explicit proof, beside speculation to make it seem to work for a specific reason , that Champa and Beerus were destroying their individual universes separately instead of together... Because everything having to do with context completely implies they are doing it together... Not separately doing each reality.
Click to expand...
Low 2-C = destroying 1 entire space-time continuum

Beerus and Champa individually are Low 2-C via scaling (not even with feats, but thats beside my overall point).

Both of them, together, are claimed to be able to destroy 2 universes.

Apply 1 Low 2-C's power for one Universe and the other Low 2-C's power to the other universe. Whats going to happen as a result? Both universes will be destroyed without either Low 2-C needing to be 2-C on their own.

Beerus and Champa explicitly needing the other to do this feat 100% contradicts either of them being 2-C, otherwise Whis and Vados wouldnt have said 2 GoDs would be needed for this to occur.
 
"Yes, you can. Its one Low 2-C destroying 1 universe and another Low 2-C destroying the other universe,"

Both were in the same Universe, and both combined were clearly going to destroy both. It's far more speculative to say that one person would destroy this Universe, while the other destroys the other.

"This is literally combining the power of 2 separate individuals to pull of something that neither one can do individually on their own."

Regardless - The feat itself cannot be performed by two Low 2-C's by our system.

"If 2 5-B's were to cause 2 planets to be obliterated by their fight, neither one would be able to destroy the said 2 planets on their own. So why assume Beerus or Champa could destroy 2 universes on their own when they explicitly, specifically, and most definitely cant without the others help? "

It becomes problematic when you start trying to apply this logic over to 'high-dimensional' feats. Reference our standards of High 3-A. Some shakes a planet - Wouldn't be granted planet level. Someone shakes something infinite in size - They're granted High 3-A. Ones is possible to perform by our system and still work - The other cannot.
 
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