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8-B Brackets Round 14

Dargoo_Faust

Dargoo_Faust

Blue Doggo Enthusiast
VS Battles
Retired
15,636
5,391
Existential Damage is that any damage caused damage the very essence of the target; is not as OP as you thing, it just prevent the target from healing.
 
Alright, let's get down to business.

Tsurubami's style is gonna make it so that Void Knight is gonna open by somewhat reklessly attacking him, forcing him to act out of character. From that he just uses Octopus to disrupt him attack, probably by projecting it into the ground. He is gonna be able to see that Void Knight will destroy him at close range so he strikes with an empowered top to the point that it almost one shots, while he dips out of range so he doesn't get erased. Any defenses the knight has don't matter since he can just use his vibrations to bypass them.

For these reasons, I vote Tsurubami
 
Take into account that being close to the knight could cause an stat decrease (attack, defenses, speed), also, he is an undead, so simply causing bleeding and attacking the heart is not effective, only weakness is his head.
 
Stat decrease is cool but Octopus deals with the defense decrease, his precog deals with the speed decrease, and Spinning Angler can compensate for the attack decrease. Tsurubami's info analysis will let him realise what the knight is, since he has encountered beings like him before.
 
So, he knowns exactly what his opponent would do with no margin of error? Welp, generally precog grants an increase of Attack/Defense Ability of +10-20, so I guess that could nullify the effect of Aura of Nothingness.

Are you telling me that Kamome has dealing with undeads of his kinda? Wondeeing as Agnaa told me that he hasn't dealt with those before.
 
None. Between him and the other users of that info analysis combat techniques, the only time they have been bypassed was by Contradictory Conjunction or by nullifying another part of his system.

At least from what I understand, both Medaka and Fukurou Tsurubami were also Undead, so unless he is quite different from what I understand he should be familiar. Medaka Box characters are also pretty genre savvy in general so he should be able to figure it out
 
I may not known how being undead in MB works, but as most undeads in fiction the ones from Anima has self-sustenance (normal), enviromental immunity, they lack of life-force (and those with "vitality" can only use Nemesis) and immune to summoning/banishing/binding abilities (unless performed by another undead).

Furthermore, as typical tabletop game such DnD, VK has a considerable chance to resist to any Kamome's hax, not guarantee to be immune, but should be able to avoid it most of the time; naturally, Kamome's can also resist, although even with the level of CONstitution similar to other characters, it would have a chance of 40% to resist it.
 
That's pretty cool, but none of that will really make a difference when he strikes him with the highest AP allowed within 8-B, and uses his style to bypass any defenses.

That's a big fat ******* nope. His style works on a system of reciprocation which will bypass conventional resistance. Also, if we were involving in universe probability stuff like that then it would likely roll in favour of Tsurubami due to his Dark Hero status within medaka Box. Which on a side note, he is missing his supernatural luck on his profile that was supposed to be added to all Abnormal's profiles. Imma fix that real quick
 
Welp, to be fair in any battle there's always randomization, so it do not really affects how we handle fights. Nothing in Anima is really absolute, anything can be resisted except by few exceptions, considering that there's a few powers that can be resisted only if the target have certain level of gnosis, I guess I can let pass Kamome's power to not be resisted (VK gnosis is only 20).

Now that you mention Luck, I think I should put anyone whose Natura+ is 5 or higher as having it (can have more than ine open roll, automatically passes any check if they obtain a 100); but I'm having few issues with electricity so perhaps later.
 
Welp, he still needs to deal with VK's self-destruction (assuming there's no more questions), whose has a range of the 50 m when Kamome has melee range (and not sure if he can just instintly known what power one have and how it works); so if he has received considerable damage is highly possible to be killed by it.
 
Iapitus, I think you were wanking Kamome a lot here.

He is gonna be able to see that Void Knight will destroy him at close range

How is he going to see that?

so he strikes with an empowered top to the point that it almost one shots

We don't have any proof that his spinning top can reach higher than his normal AP.

Any defenses the knight has don't matter since he can just use his vibrations to bypass them.

Styles aren't 100% durability negation.

Stat decrease is cool but Octopus deals with the defense decrease

Only if he can stop the attack before it happens.

his precog deals with the speed decrease

Only to a certain extent, since it's high-level information analysis and not actual precog.

and Spinning Angler can compensate for the attack decrease

No it can't.

Tsurubami's info analysis will let him realise what the knight is, since he has encountered beings like him before.

Citation needed

None. Between him and the other users of that info analysis combat techniques, the only time they have been bypassed was by Contradictory Conjunction or by nullifying another part of his system.

This is extremely misleading. We've only seen his precog once, of course it didn't fail that one time, and it wasn't bypassed that one time. Other users of info analysis combat techniques work differently to his iirc.

At least from what I understand, both Medaka and Fukurou Tsurubami were also Undead

They're undead on a technicality. They seemed exactly like normal humans, except they kept their heart beating even though it had stopped. This is not at all similar to any other undead in fiction.

That's a big fat ******* nope. His style works on a system of reciprocation which will bypass conventional resistance.

Even so, that's just his style, and his other abilities don't work on that basis.
 
I am unsure on which side to take this, i believe Kamome might take this easily. But first i'll correct some things:

>Fukurou wasn't undead and neither was Medaka, they were living beings who could still move after their heart stopped by turning their body into a blood pump. They were not dead, they just didn't have and didn't need a working heart, they were still alive, all their body parts were working normally. So while that is technically somewhat of an undead characteristic, i don't think it can be equalized as i think VK here is actually undead with no working body parts and not living in the literal sense (i think).

>Spinning Top is not top 8-B. Spinning Angler used on the earth's rotation is High 6-A, but that would just be more hax that translates to AP, not literal High 6-A AP used on rotating motion possible.

I think that's all. Anyway, for now i'd say Kamome takes this. His gravity and rotation could potentially offer enough battlefield control for Kamome to land a hit, the AP difference will help with the rest.
 
I took one look at Kamome's profile was so confused that I decided to let you all debate it out so I can figure this guy out.....didn't help still confused as hell lol
 
1: He has an ability said to influence rotation, and was stated to be able to control the Earth's rotation. We've never seen it used in combat, aside from him spinning up a top which we never got to use in battle.

2: He has an ability which let him "obstruct others". We've only seen it used once, where he stood on a dude's foot just as he was thinking to attack.

3: He has an ability which he can use to steal away someone's composure, causing them to lack out of character.

To go along with 1, he has supernatural luck.

To go along with 2, he has high-level information analysis, effectively acting as precog (he can read from an opponent's looks how they're going to attack).

To go along with 3, he has word manipulation, vibration manipulation, sound manipulation (a bunch of powers that come with how this ability is basically "language manipulation"), and power bestowal (style users can pass their styles onto others for a short period of time).
 
Agnaa said:
Iapitus, I think you were wanking Kamome a lot here.
He is gonna be able to see that Void Knight will destroy him at close range

How is he going to see that?

so he strikes with an empowered top to the point that it almost one shots

We don't have any proof that his spinning top can reach higher than his normal AP.

Any defenses the knight has don't matter since he can just use his vibrations to bypass them.

Styles aren't 100% durability negation.

Stat decrease is cool but Octopus deals with the defense decrease

Only if he can stop the attack before it happens.

his precog deals with the speed decrease

Only to a certain extent, since it's high-level information analysis and not actual precog.

and Spinning Angler can compensate for the attack decrease

No it can't.

Tsurubami's info analysis will let him realise what the knight is, since he has encountered beings like him before.

Citation needed

None. Between him and the other users of that info analysis combat techniques, the only time they have been bypassed was by Contradictory Conjunction or by nullifying another part of his system.

This is extremely misleading. We've only seen his precog once, of course it didn't fail that one time, and it wasn't bypassed that one time. Other users of info analysis combat techniques work differently to his iirc.

At least from what I understand, both Medaka and Fukurou Tsurubami were also Undead

They're undead on a technicality. They seemed exactly like normal humans, except they kept their heart beating even though it had stopped. This is not at all similar to any other undead in fiction.

That's a big fat ******* nope. His style works on a system of reciprocation which will bypass conventional resistance.

Even so, that's just his style, and his other abilities don't work on that basis.
Click to expand...
The same way he could tell Zenkichi was holding back before he was even going to attack.

I see you have taken a more hax interpretation of the ability. I have taken a more AP interpretation, since it is what he uses to attack. If he can influence the rotation of the earth, then it should be no problem

Who said anything about durability negation? I said ignoring defenses

Yes, which he can, since he has info analysis that lets him act before his target ever gets a chance

It being unconvensional makes no difference at all. He can act before his target due to it, which is really all that matters.

Yes, It can.

What I said above.

No, the other users of his same exact info analysis precog function the same. I gave that statement accounting for the others who also have it. Did you forget they exist?

Medaka is also able to fight properly despite the fact that her muscles are supposed to be unusable. You also missed my point on genre savy

They are tied into his style. Besides, you missed the other parts of this point
 
@Iapitus He could tell Zenkichi was holding back because he was preparing to hold back and thinking about that. I don't think the Void Knight will be thinking "Dude, I am so gonna wreck this punk at close range"

Influencing the rotation of the earth can be anything from 10-C to 3-A. Simply knowing that he can influence it gives us no information. I was going to make a CRT about this when revising Medaka Box, but I thought it was fine to leave until after the brackets since he couldn't use the high AP from it.

Ignoring defenses is durability negation. Also I'm not exactly sure why you think his style would let him bypass defenses.

I don't think he'd always be able to, Void Knight has a huge sword, if he's about to swing it then Kamome would need to run up and grab his hand, which may not be reasonable with a speed decrease. Not every single is a kick from someone standing right next to you.

It makes a difference because he can't stop an attack before an opponent starts thinking about it. He doesn't have "10 seconds into the future" precog. He has "realizes an opponent's about to attack from their body language" precog. Which means if he's sufficiently faster, or if he's sufficiently far away, Void Knight can attack without Kamome being able to stop it.

Nuh-uh.

Same.

Oh right, Yuzuriha. But Medaka fought off 640,000 of her clones with this sort of precog, and she didn't have Contradictory Conjunction at that point, right?

Yes, unusable due to being too damaged, this isn't the same as conventional undead in fiction. I missed your point on them being genre savvy since I think that's fine.

They're only tied into his style in that he uses them around the same time, it doesn't give his other abilities resistance negation.
 
Fair point on the first one. I think them fighting at this close of a range makes the match circumstances of the battle in favour of void knight

Not really. How would it be that high or low end? We know what the general energy it takes to mess with the rotation of the earth is, which is why we have it listed as that.

He is ignoring defense, not durability, but if you want to interpret the terms that way fine. I meant it more like Armor, Shields, blocking, etc. wouldn't help. I guess you could argue styles should be able to bypass durability tho

Not really, he could also project the attack into the ground, or disrupt it in some other way. Also, apparently Tsurubami having any kind of precog at all already off sets the stat decrease by Anima's rules or something, but I don't really understand.

I never claimed he could do it before they are thinking about it, but he doesn't need to. He knows about it at the same time that his enemy does. He can also just dodge it as well, even if he cannot disrupt it. But don't forget, due to his style Void Knight is gonna rush him, which he can deal with

kek

Same in what sense

Nah, I don't think Yu had CC at that point. Medaka should probably have precog via info analysis added to her page if she doesn't have it already.

So we agree then?

I was saying they are complementary, and if he can use the vibrations of his style to allow his attacks to ignore defenses, then he should be able to carry a similar effect. Either way, his luck should force the rolls in his favour regardless. But I understand your point.
 
Cool.

It could be that high or low end because it could either be influencing the Earth's rotation by slowing it down with 40 joules worth of energy, or anything up to infinite energy. That linked calc isn't the "general energy to mess with the rotation of the Earth". The calc is explicitly for slowing the Earth's rotation speed by five minutes. Kamome has never increased the time of a day by 5 minutes, so that calc doesn't apply.

Sure, but generally durability negation counts for negating armor too. But I don't remember the vibrations of styles being able to get around armor/shields, that was just a special punch technique Medaka did.

We've only seen him project attacks into the ground by stepping on someone's foot. We've never seen him use actual gravity manipulation.

Sure, but just be aware that he may still struggle against a bullet hell sort of thing, or with statistics reduction, like Void Knight has.

hue

Same as in you said "What I said above", so I say the same.

Yuzuriha didn't have CC, but Yuzuriha has precog via info analysis, and Medaka fought 640,000 clones that had that info analysis without having CC.

I don't think he'd be experienced fighting them, but he'd have a good idea of the basics of undead beings.

That is wild speculation that I don't agree with. Agreed with the luck part though.
 
Welp, reading the future of the next turns could give a bonus of +30, however, since Agnaa comfirmed that it do not work to such degrees it just could work as a decrease of negatives at defending. Reactive Evolution works similar, the longer one fights, the more the bonus increase per turn, but don't think Kamome has that.
 
@Agnaa

If him being capable of influencing the earth rotation is even worth mentioning, then it would not be to such a low degree. Even nukes technically influence the earth's rotation but not to a notable level. Yeah, the calc is just to give a general idea of what influencing the earth to a segnificant degree would take, but not that explicity. It just an example. If he could actually make the earth spin infinitely then it would have been stated he could influence the rotation of the sun, jupiter, or a black hole. Changing the earth's rotation by 5 minutes is just a general thing

Medaka's technique was a half baked style, so any of the more complete ones should be capable of that as well. I'm pretty sure that was even a style she technically copies from the girl with the jagged teeth from rereading that chapter anyway.

I didn't mention gravity manipulation, but that does best fit the description of the ability now that you mention it. Him stepping on Zenkichi's foot was just his best way to do it in that moment. We have also seen him "disrupt" Medaka's attack when he caught her feet in his mouth.

Does Void Knight have Danmaku? perhaps I missed it on his profile.


Oh, i see. I forgot which point this was

Oh, that's what you meant. I thought you were referencing her being able to use it by turning into Nienami. I didn't know Medaka had CC, but Medaka was somewhat struggling against the info analysis if you look at their fight.

Well, he knows how to defeat one, which is more what I was trying to point out.

I don't think its that wild but whatever
 
Yes but we have no basis for what a notable level is, it could be much lower or much higher. Also, I don't think there's a reason to believe that being able to change rotation speed would actually give the spinning top abnormally high AP.

Medaka's technique wasn't a half-baked style and it didn't even work like a style. She kicked the target in a special way.

Oh right, she caught it in his mouth. But neither of these have indicated an extra sort of ability. Stepping on someone's foot and catching a foot in one's mouth isn't an ability. He can't just mystically project it into the ground or disrupt it in some way, he can simply predict where it's going and block/dodge it, which may not be applicable against all attacks.

He doesn't have danmaku but he does have statistics reduction. I'm just mentioning this in case some aoe/danmaku comes up in later rounds.

Medaka never had CC, that's what I said... Medaka was struggling in the fight we saw, but she still ended up fighting 640,000 clones with info analysis without CC. This is to refute your earlier claim of "Between him and the other users of that info analysis combat techniques, the only time they have been bypassed was by Contradictory Conjunction or by nullifying another part of his system." This is factually incorrect, as Medaka bypassed it without either of those things.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Ok, so he shouldn't have an issue then
Click to expand...
I don't know about him being able to step on a spiked blood projectile or catch it in his mouth, it sounds like he'd still get hurt by it.
 
That calc is just a frame of reference. It won't be that much higher or lower, for the exact reasons I said above. If it is extremely higher, then they would not have said earth, and if it was extremely lower then it would not have been worth mentioning. If being able to change the rotation of things on a planets level was not representative in how he can usually apply it, then again, it would not have been worth mentioning, so he capable of applying such powers to his top regardless of if he does so on a regular basis.

I think we may be talking about different circumstances then, because in the instance I am refering to she explicitly bypassed armor by using the vibrations from her style.

We know his power. It is explicitly stated. He can disrupt techniques, and also project them into the ground. We also know it is contact based to project it into the ground. Stepping on someone's foot or catching a kick in his mouth are just 2 examples of him dirupting/nullifying attacks since he could tell what they were going to do. His minus is the ability that he does have a way to counter.

The statistics reduction is already compensated for. Danmaku can be delt with if he is overwhelmed or if he cannot read them, sure.

Medaka didn't bypass her information analysis. She just won anyway. Octopus works so well with info analysis because he would (at least in theory) always be able to respond to what he reads coming, but other users don't have that benefit.
 
Agnaa said:
I don't know about him being able to step on a spiked blood projectile or catch it in his mouth, it sounds like he'd still get hurt by it.
Click to expand...
We both know that he would not respond in that way if he would take harm by doing so. He would respond in a different way. Those are just the 2 best ways in those given circumstances
 
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