8-B Brackets Round 14

[Agnaa]

It could be much higher or lower. If it was much higher, he'd be able to seriously accelerate or even completely stop the Earth's rotation, rather than only merely being able to make a day 5 minutes longer, he could stop its rotation completely or half the length of a day. If it was lower then perhaps he can't even make it 5 minutes longer, giving an immensely lower result.

When did Medaka explicitly bypass armor using vibrations from her style? She only used her style against Iihiko who doen't have armor, just defensive hax.

Yes but "can disrupt techniques and project them into the ground" is incredibly vague when its only showings are stepping on a foot and catching a foot in his mouth. If those are the only ways he can use it then there's not a ton he can do with it.

I'm not sure if it's completely compensated for using his abilities, I'm not sure if either of us know exactly how far reduced Bami's stats will be.

That seems like an awful stretch. But either way, you explicitly said that it was only bypassed through CC or by nullifying a part of the system. I don't remember either of these things happening in practice.

Of course he would not respond in that way, but he wouldn't actually have a way to project them into the ground or disrupt them, he'd only be able to dodge. And when he has reduced stats, that's gonna be hard for him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Again, its just a frame of reference, and likely isn't off by that extreme a margin. You don't like extreme high balling, and like safe low balls within as little assumptions as possible, so don't even bother with the latter. Reducing the earths speed by 5 minutes isn't that extreme a difference, so if it was any less than that, like if he was just changing the earth's rotation by a couple seconds, then it wouldn't even be worth mentioning.

Her fight with Jouto.

We know the kinds of things he does from what he has shown. We both know that those aren't the only things he can do, since his ability would just be to "catch attacks in his mouth" (funny enough, that's actually another abnormality lol). His ability is to be able to generally disrupt attacks. Its not hard to understand.

From the fact that it was apparently supposed to be a landslide win (other than CC) against Professor Tsuruabami, I think he definitely can. Also, if the statistics reduction was on something like the way of Salt, then he wouldn't have been allowed in this tournement anyway.

How so? Yeah, she didn't bypass the info analysis. She just won anyway. her info analysis is like Billy The Kid's Thunderer, sure they may be able to respond to any given enemies attack, but just cuz they can respond does not mean they are gonna be able to counter it. Octopus just means Tsurubami will almost always have a way to respond.

Not necesarilly the case. He caught a point blank kick to the face from someone who is likely both stronger and faster than him, so a projectile like that shouldn't be a big deal when he knows where he is aiming.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not too sure about that, given how vague a statement it was and how we never saw it applied ever.

She didn't use a style for that, she couldn't even use styles at all at that point. She's good at controlling vibrations, she's been able to do stuff like cancel out sound waves with her voice, but she couldn't (at that point) understand feelings enough to be able to use Styles.

We know he can do those two things, we don't know what other things he can do. If you suggested he could "grab someone's arm before it swung a sword" I'd believe you, but I don't think he has some special gravity manip or anything to drop enemy's attacks into the ground. Just be very careful so you don't assume he can stop attacks in ways that he hasn't demonstrated.

I'm not sure about that, I don't remember.

I agree that it's like Billy The Kid's Thunderer but I don't agree that Octopus means Tsurubami will almost always have a way to respond. We've only see it let him do things that are well within normal human capabilities (well, if you can predict an opponent's attack at least).

Why are you saying Kamome's slower and weaker than Medaka when he scales to her for AP and speed?

 

[Moritzva]

I'll retract my vote (I believe I voted) and I'll watch this argument.

 

[Drite77]

Tsurubami: 2 (Iapitus, Firephoenixearl)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump?

Is this still going on?

 

[Antoniofer]

In theory. I'll keep my vote save a little more. Remember that Inconclusive is still an option.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

How does an inconc tanslate in brackets?

 

[Antoniofer]

Flip a coin in order to advance in the brackets, the Incon is normally added to profiles.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I see.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not casting a vote yet, I'm not fully convinced by the arguments on which character would win, or if it would be inconclusive.

 

[Antoniofer]

Mm, this has been still by a considerable amount of time; to accelerate things, I'll vote Incon (at least for now).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

We still need at least 4 more votes. I think someone should post this on Dargoo's voting post.

 

[Jackythejack]

Ugh. Inconclusive fra

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok then it's a 2 (Tsurubami) - 2 (Inconclusive)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Now that i think about it, what's the reason for inconc votes? I just see Anton saying "inconc" is an option, but no actual argument for it. Am i missing the inconc argument or?

 

[Antoniofer]

Mm, with all this time I forget a little, so let me re-capitulate: Kamome has his the AP advantage, Combat Intuition, his gravity powers can either negate attacks and immovilizate VK (I think? I still do not got clear how stepping on foot works), can bypass armor, and get someone out of character. In the other hand, VK has stat decreasing (is not an attack, but rather anyone who enter the aura is affected by it), stat amplification (amp armor and attack ability at cost of health), flight (not brought up until now, but is notable), ranged attack (actually, more of a AoE of 10 m; it cost him health), damage reduction and a final attack after being destroyed.

So, Kamome's AP advantage is compensated by damage reduction and armor, although if I read it correctly the lastone can be bypassed, Comabt Intuition could reduce the effect of the stat reduction but not enough to dissapeared completely and yet I think is quite unlikely, VK has several ways to amp himself, but at cost of health (for intances, minor AP, speed, armor and flight would cost him 27% of his health, plus 13.5% anytime he use his Blood Spine), however, as undead he has limitless stamina so that wouldn't makes him weaker. So, considering the other abilities of Kamome and since I do not got it clear at all, I guess it compensate the stated above, but even if he beats VK he run the chance to be erased. That's why the inconclusive.

 

[GyroNutz]

Incon FRA

 

[The_Impress]

Incon FRA as well

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally I vote for Void Knight.

From what I recall about his fights (which IIRC were all 90% off panel) he suffers from Ajimu Najimi syndrom. That is he has abilities that sound great, but he lacks showings on how this abilities are used in practice.

With his known combat application of his powers, i don't think he is winning this.

I don't think we have seen him use octopus ranged, for example, and in general it may just be a skill that increases gravity to pull things to the ground. Not bad, but it wouldn't safe him from a sword unless he gets to position himself on top of it.

Similarly Spinning Angler has, if I don't forget anything, hardly any demonstrated combat application aside from maybe using it to increase the power of spinning tops.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

2-4-1 (Tsuurubami-Inconc-Void Knight)

 

[Moritzva]

Tsuu FRA.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

tbh I'd consider DontTalk's argument before FRAing Tsuu or Incon more. I'm fine with this taking a little longer just to get the most accurate result.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Tsuu FRA.

3-4-1

 

[Antoniofer]

So, the stuff that he can do haven't been showed at all? Also, I not want to sound a little ignorant, but what happens after he step in ones foot? Profile said he is Power Nullified but it sounds more like avoiding his opponent to move ahead and melee attacks could still do something.

 

[DontTalkDT]

What happened after he stomped on Zenkichi's foot is that Zenkichi couldn't kick him with that foot, because Kamome was standing on it.

Maybe I am forgetting an occassion, but to my knowledge we never have seen him use this ability on panel besides that. Following that the ability is explained, but not shown, in chapter 177 like this.

I think that probably is all we have on it, which brings me back to my point of him having nice sounding abilities but lacking practical showings.

I don't think it nullifies powers like making them vanish on contact or anything. The nullification is more a 'stop the opponent before he completes the action for the attack'-thing, in my understanding.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yeah he just stops the attack before it happens, not rly make attacks vanish.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, don't think that stepping on VK feet could stop him from attacking with the broadsword if he do not immovilizate, attack is also useless against Blood Spine as the spines comes from the ground in a radius of 10 m. So if that is true I'll change to VK now.

 

[The_Causality]

Someone can summary the Reason Above for both characters please?

 

[Agnaa]

@DontTalk You are forgetting just one occasion, Kamome also used Octopus to catch Medaka's foot in his mouth to block the attack. Spinning Angler hasn't been shown to increase the power of spinning tops, as in it's never been stated to make them more powerful or shown the spinning tops dealing damage.

Considering that Blood Spine is an AoE attack that Kamome would struggle with in speed equalized, so voting Void Knight. But I would still like to know what Antoniofer thinks would happen if Kamome made Void Knight act out of character.

 

[Antoniofer]

I guess out of character counts as behaiving the opposite of what one normally do? Anyway, going to post the mundus operandi so one could have an idea:

The Knights of the Void always prefer direct, face to face clashes. If they start a fight, they openly assault their enemies in the most direct way possible. Since they have no appreciation for life, they sometimes attack people as a pastime, but this is certainly not common; they typically prefer to have a clear objective before killing. They also demonstrate a tremendous ability to lead weaker undead soldiers, making them particularly dangerous if they are commanding similar creatures. Their only vulnerable point is the head. Although their bodies can withstand considerable damage, if they are beheaded, they are destroyed instantly.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@DontTalk You are forgetting just one occasion, Kamome also used Octopus to catch Medaka's foot in his mouth to block the attack.

Was it actually stated that he used Octopus for that? I thought he just enjoys eating shoes...

 

[Agnaa]

@Antoni It's not explained quite as "behaving the opposite", just provoking them into acting differently than normal.

@DontTalk I'm not sure actually, it could be either I guess.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, VK is just another creature of the bestiary so you're not going to get something more of what I post, I could do so but I doubt it help.

As for the summary asked by The Causality:

Kamome:

• Higher AP (countered by VK's Aura of Nothingness and Damage Reduction).
• Octopus (apparently less useful as we though as it only prevents the opponent to perform complete physical attacks, and do not negate powers. Countered by Blood Spine).
• Combat Intuition.
• Vibration Attacks

Void Knight:

• Stat Decrease (Countered by AP, although, that do not counter the speed reduction)
• Damage Reduction.
• Blood Manipulation used for:
  • Flight.
  • Blood Spine (AoE attack of 10 m radius).
  • Stat Amplification (Only used in the broadsword to increase attack ability).
  • Armor (Countered by vibrations).
  • Note, using Blood Manipulation cost the knight health, so using Blood Spine for example cost him 13.5% of the total health.
• Self-destruction that isntantly affect anyone in a radius of 50 m (PhR 160 or double damage).

Most likely there's more for Kamome's, but I lost track in these 2 days of inactivity, so feel free to correct me.

 

[DontTalkDT]

@whoever brought up vibration: Soo.... when did Kamome demonstrate using vibrations in a damaging fashion?

I know styles are vibration based, but I don't remember him being able to use that in a damaging way. (Or in any way aside from his styles specified effect for that matter)

 

[Agnaa]

@whoever brought up vibration: Soo.... when did Kamome demonstrate using vibrations in a damaging fashion?

I know styles are vibration based, but I don't remember him being able to use that in a damaging way. (Or in any way aside from his styles specified effect for that matter)

Agreed. Iapitus brought it up so I questioned him about this, and he referenced how Medaka punched through Joutou's baby armor, but this wasn't through the use of a style...

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp then, that's an advantage out for Kamome.

 

[Moritzva]

Yeesh, this battle is way too close.

 

[GyroNutz]

Ok DontTalk and Anton have convinced me, VK FRA

 

[Antoniofer]

So, how is the current vote going on? And I guess that old Kamome's vote are nullified now if were based in Octopus.