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Perserker vs Yorimitsuru

I can't recall any skill feats for Mitsuru, but she should at least be on par with professional fencers.
 
In that case, Berserker is probably more skilled, due to her basically being legendary for it. I think her versatility and over all skill advantage should give her the win
 
Versatility how?

Mitsuru won't be going for her sword too often anyway, as she mainly fights with her Persona. If Berserker doesn't end the fight quickly, Mitsuru will just heal herself and use Megidolaon until the opponent dies.
 
Versatility as in the 4 to 5 different Noble Phantasms she has

But Berserker will, and with her cloning, she won't have a problem getting at least one to close the distance
 
How fast are servants btw? Speed is unequal.

Anyways, Megidolaon is an aoe, so the clones would be affected just as much. It really depends if they can finish off Mitsuru without giving her time to heal imo.
 
Raikou has a Noble Phantasm with a fire element, which is Mitsuru's weakness. She's leagues more skilled in swordplay and has a passive boost to her stats due to fighting against someone who uses magical abilities, and this applies to all of her clones.

Voting for Raikou.
 
If I'm correct there are two for Berserker: Iapitus and Solacis.

And one for Mitsuru: Edwellken.
 
@Edwellken @Shozo Irie

How is Megidolaon a deciding factor here? Almighty is Resistance Neg, not Durability Neg. This has been agreed upon with the SMT knowledgeables a long time ago. At most it gets past Raikou's magic resistance, and at that point it's no different from another Mountain-level attack, which Raikou can handle just fine.

Remember that Raikou also has Suetake's bow for long range along with Tsuna's fire sword to exploit Mitsuru's weakness, and she can use both just as well as her favoured weapon. Raikou can likely catch Mitsuru in close range given that, as a Servant, Raikou has plenty of experience in closing distance to fight other Servants (the weakest of which are still MHS in speed, and Raikou is a high-tier with an extra boost due to fighting a magic-user); even those that stick to mid- or long-range tactics. Healing is a non-issue, since Servants receive healing spells from their Masters mid-combat all the time and so Raikou can likely deal with it. Not to mention that she can easily outlast Mitsuru in stamina.
 
I never claimed Megidolaon would one-shot but okay. It's still one of Mitsuru's most powerful attacks that, coupled with a Mind Charge, I highly doubt Raikou can handle more than just a few. Saying "it's no different from another Mountain-level attack" is practically like saying the same thing about Raikou's Noble Phantasms. The biggest issue to get around is that it's an extremely powerful, unblockable, (practically) undodgeable aoe spell that Mitsuru can and will spam.

How does fighting Servants with healing in the past make Mitsuru's healing a non-issue? Saying she can likely deal with it isn't enough without actually providing a reason as to how. Mitsuru's healing is effectively an instant restore up to a Low-Mid level, meaning that Raikou has to land a decisive blow before Mitsuru can get the spell off or it's back to square one, meanwhile Mitsuru can just keep whittling away at her opponent's health at a range or nuke with Megidolaon. I think Raikou's gonna have a hard time closing the distance while she's getting constantly bombarded by Megidolaons, and it's not like Mitsuru doesn't know how to play keep away either. Stamina isn't the biggest factor when this is a fight that'll be decided in just a few hits, and as said previously, Mitsuru can heal to more than outlast Raikou in terms of prolonging the combat. Not to mention she can simply absorb Yorimitsu's mana with Spirit Drain, which can not only be fatal for servants, but makes the argument of Raikou's stamina even more moot.
 
After looking it up more closely, Mitsuru's profile has Megidolaon listed under her Abilities but neither of her persona in both The Journey and The Answer actually has it, or even any Almighty spells besides Spirit Drain. Speaking of which, spirit drain is way too weak to deal significant damage to Servants, who are made of some ridiculous amounts of mana. I'm not even sure they'd be affected, since Diarmuid's NP which cuts through magical constructs like butter doesn't instakill Servants. Same for Medea's Rule Breaker.

I'm not saying it'll be easy for Raikou, but then you have to remember that she's legendary for being the greatest slayer of magic-users and magical beasts in Japan's Heian period. Nasuverse magic is pretty damn versatile, especially in the older eras, and to be famed for slaying these magic-users tends to imply some serious adaptability.

Meanwhile, all Mitsuru really has going for her is a relatively weak energy absorption spell, a chance-based mind manip, really good heals, temporary stat amps and raw power.

Raikou has a permanent stat amp due to fighting a magic-user, some serious experience in dealing with magic-users, a massive temporary stat amp for both speed and strength that can be spammed (Mana Burst), magic resistance, bow mastery, spear mastery, sword mastery, clones and a sword that exploits Mitsuru's weakness to fire.
 
Megidolaon comes from Mitsuru's moveset as a boss in The Answer, which now that you mention it, she's still missing a couple of other abilities from. Gae Dearg and Rule Breaker are both more like dispels than drains. A better example of a draining NP would be Ark, which, while obviously superior to Spirit Drain, explicitly drains magical energy and has a completely different effect than Rule Breaker. Blood Fort Andromeda is another example of a mana draining NP working differently from Rule Breaker, though unlike Spirit Drain, it can be resisted. Spirit Drain is by no means an instant kill, but it allows Mitsuru herself to stay in the game indefinitely while directly attacking Berserker's mana supply, which could effectively be an alternate victory method for Mitsuru and is an instant K.O if and when Berserker runs out.

Sure, Raikou likely has great adaptability, but that's just another addition to her experience advantage, and isn't an actual counter to Mitsuru's healing. She still needs to finish off Mitsuru almost immediately or the damage will be annulled.

Almighty damage kinda doesn't care about Magic Resistance, and Weapon mastery is nice and all, but it doesn't really help when she needs to get close to use all but one of them, including the fire sword that's her only real shot of ending the fight quickly enough to overcome her opponent's healing. Angelic Grace counters Mana Burst by doubling Mitsuru's evasion rate against non-Almighty magic, and Sharp Student makes the Immediate killshot Raikou needs for victory all that much harder for her to feasibly hit.

Raikou will have to close the distance and struggle to land a single decisive blow, all the while she'll be getting constantly bombarded from afar with heavy unavoidable damage and potentially having her life force drained. Meanwhile Mitsuru can just fire off a few Megidolaons, adding Mind Charge if necessary, and not even have to worry about her own aim. She can focus all of her efforts on dodging what few ranged attacks Berserker actually has, healing herself on the very unlikely chance she actually gets hit, and stealing Raikou's mana to sustain her own spells. And this is all assuming Raikou survives Megidolaon long enough to actually get close.
 
What stops Mitsuru from using an Almighty and calling it a day?

Along with healing basically any wound Berzerker makes
 
Basically my reasoning in a nutshell.

But the argument is experience against Magic users and adaptability.
 
How is Mitsuru dodging Raikou's arrow spam? Once Raikou determines that she can't enter melee range normally, she'll use her bow. As a high tier Servant, Raikou should have several kilometres in range and can spam enough arrows to keep Mitsuru constantly dodging, and she only needs one clone to keep up the arrow spam while the others close the distance while she's occupied.

Also note that, despite her own D rank in Agility, Raikou kept up with 5 Servants at once while acting as Ushi Gozen, two of which had A+ rank Agility. Another was Kintoki, who was significantly faster than his Berserker self and was familiar with Raikou's fighting style. Said Berserker self also fought Nikola Tesla, a high-tier Servant who uses natural lightning as his main form of attack, and stalemated him long enough for Guda to arrive.

Raikou's speed should be far superior to Mitsuru's; enough to make a considerable difference given that she has five of herself to work with.
 
Speed equal doesn't matter much seeing as Berserker can keep up with 5 Servants who are just as fast to way faster than her. Yorimitsu for Sol's reasons.
 
Mitsuru can dodge and attack at the same time since Megidolaon doesn't need to be aimed. It's kind of hard to aim your own attack while you're being constantly bombarded with Almighty magic.

And again, Mitsuru can heal and Spirit Drain is kind of the exact opposite of what any Servant wants to experience.
 
How strong is Spirit Drain? In my experience with the Persona games, the move itself doesn't drain much in the first place, and with her spamming the far more costly Megidolaon and being unable to use two different spells at once, she'll open herself up with each attempt while losing more than she gains.

Besides, Servants are already capable of handling attacks that drain their mana. Bloodfort Andromeda, and the significantly stronger Pandemonium Cetus already do the same thing as Spirit Drain and literally no Servant was notably hindered by the former, which was capable of reducing non-magi to puddles almost instantly. Not to mention that attacks that specifically target magical energy like Spirit Drain does don't affect the physical bodies of Servants, as shown when Diarmuid's spear didn't instakill Saber, or when Medea's Rule Breaker didn't break the connection between the Servants' spiritual and physical bodies.
 
Unless Spirit Drain in Persona is as good as Meditate from SMT, I'm not convinced that Mitsuru won't run out of SP before Raikou gets tired. All Raikou needs to do is keep her distance and bait out the Megidolaons, maybe sacrifice a clone or two a couple of times - it's not like she has a limit to how many times she can remake them.
 
I already went over how Spirit Drain is different from Diarmuid's spear. They aren't even really comparable.

And to be completely clear and honest she doesn't even need Spirit Drain, it isn't her win condition because Megidolaon is enough by itself. You're making the false assumption that Mitsuru even has the possibility of running out of SP from Megidolaon spam before Raikou dies. She isn't gonna be able to "keep her distance" when they start at 100m and Mitsuru's range is kilometers wide.

Not only that, Megidolaon is undodgeable and it isn't just any average attack either... If we're being generous, she should really be able to survive like 4 or 5 at best without healing, and Mitsuru can fire off dozens before she even needs to worry about running out of SP. Waiting Mitsuru out is not an option.

I'll repeat myself again because people seem to be ignoring this point as I've yet to see a counter. Mitsuru can heal all of the damage Raikou does if she doesn't finish the fight quickly. None of her ranged attacks are capable of doing this, and she won't be able to get close enough and figure out Mitsuru's fire weakness before Mitsuru finishes her off with her own attacks that have superior range, are much easier to hit with, and require far less strategy to pull off.

Even assuming she has superior agility doesn't help because Megidolaon is an aoe. I really don't see where Raikou's advantage is coming from here.
 
Since when has Megidolaon been undodgeable? I know Megidolaon bypasses stuff like Makarakarn, but in Persona 5, Almighty can be dodged with high enough evasion. Which brings up another point. How big is Megidolaon's AOE? Dungeons in Persona don't exactly offer much space yet the characters can potentially dodge practically any AOE attack that's shot at them?

What's even the guarantee that Mitsuru goes for Megidolaon at all? Or at least right away? Her go-to is Ice attacks, and it's not like she knows about Raikou's magic resistance. Sure, she'll figure it out eventually, but she won't start spamming Almighty attacks right off the bat.

Putting that aside, this whole debate we've been working under the assumption that Mitsuru successfully distances herself to use her AOE spells... with a starting distance of 100m... against a primarily melee fighter with superior speed and reactions.

With speed unequalized, Raikou rushes her and wins out with superior melee. 100 metres is nothing to someone whose speed is MHS all the time. Mitsuru tries to gain distance with Ice attacks but Raikou either dodges or tanks with MR. Once Raikou realizes Mitsuru can't keep up in melee, she continues to maintain close range and Mitsuru can't use Almighty unless she wants to hit herself too. At that point, even if Raikou doesn't use her fire sword, Mitsuru will be way too occupied just trying to survive Raikou's rush to spare any time to heal herself. If Raikou gets impatient, she'll bring out the clones and at that point Mitsuru's screwed.

Mitsuru can definitely win, but only if she manages to gain enough distance to use Almighty spells without risking herself. But against someone faster, physically stronger, more skilled and more experienced than her with a negligible starting distance, the chances of that happening is very low.
 
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