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Bleach upgrades

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Dr.Fix

Dr.Fix

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Going off what was discussed in the General Discusion thread Base Zaraki, Unohana, Pernida, and Nemuri should be upgraded to High 6-A.

The reason being that:

Zaraki easily scales to one Gremmy (Half the meteor yield). He either tanked or cut everythign thrown at him and wasn't even using both hands. Nor did he take his patch off. He also cut Giant Gerard's arm off who is also scaled to High 6-A.

Unohana rivals this because Kubo literally writes this during their fight. I highly recommend reading those chapters before commenting on this if for no other reason then just because it was a great fight.

Pernida scales because again Kubo literally writes it has evoled to zaraki's level.

Nemuri scales because she blew Pernida to kingdom com.

@Imade disagreed on Unohana because he thinks Zaraki got stronger after killing her. While he did attain access to his zanpakuto's released states and the power they come with he absolutely did not get a boost to his base. Imade used the example that Ichigo got a boost in SS arc. Aside from Ichi-Yo-yo being the gold standard of inconsistency with his fluxtuating PL, the character was in shikai, not base. Renji, Rukia, and Byakuya were also used to justify his claim. As pointed out in the other thread none of these examples were ever seen in base either. So again he's comparing shikai to base or appels to oranges.

So in a nutshell pretty textbook case of scaling.
 
I mean while Ichi-Pong is pretty bouncy he's at least almost always stronger than Hitsugaya after Ichigo gets his Pseudo Bankai and only two times Toshiro would be considered stronger than Ichigo

First being against Luppi. And then against Halibel in my opinion
 
Dr.Fix said:
@Imade disagreed on Unohana because he thinks Zaraki got stronger after killing her. While he did attain access to his zanpakuto's released states and the power they come with he absolutely did not get a boost to his base. Imade used the example that Ichigo got a boost in SS arc. Aside from Ichi-Yo-yo being the gold standard of inconsistency with his fluxtuating PL, the character was in shikai, not base. Renji, Rukia, and Byakuya were also used to justify his claim. As pointed out in the other thread none of these examples were ever seen in base either. So again he's comparing shikai to base or appels to oranges.

So in a nutshell pretty textbook case of scaling.
Click to expand...
Isn't this negated by the fact that this was Kenpachi original strenght when he was a kid? He fought Unohana back to the point where he almost kill her and decided to seal his power. Wouldn't she scale from that fight?
 
Isn't Unohana implying here that Renji, Byakuya, Ichigo and Base Yhwach scale from his base power?

0527-007
It would be odd for Gremmy to be above Yhwach who was standing on the edge of the building looking at the meteor who looked like he planned to do something about it.

Byakuya and Renji scale to Base Gerard as well who is above the Royal squad except for Ichibei.

Renji we know that has train all his life to catch up to Byakuya but sadly he was taken off-guard by God size Gerard.
 
If Unohana does scale than so would Yamamoto which would in turn cause Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Renji to scale since he fought Volstanding Bazz-B who managed to offset one of Shikai Yamamoto's flame attack in base.
 
Also about Gremmy his power "doubles" per each copy.

It isn't 18.79 petatons x 6 copies of himself.

But, 18.79 petatons x 2 x2 x2 x2 x2 x2 which is 1202.56 petatons or 1.20256 exatons High 6-A Multi-Continent
 
Peter1129 said:
If Unohana does scale than so would Yamamoto which would in turn cause Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Renji to scale since he fought Volstanding Bazz-B who managed to offset one of Shikai Yamamoto's flame attack in base.
Click to expand...
And in the scan above Unohana included Renji as a rival to Base Kenpachi.
 
Yeah it's kinda consistent not to mention even Meninas is stated to be potentially on par with Kenpachi so she's also possibly High 6-A. This would also scale to some of the stronger Sternritters.

I'm not really sure about the Gremmy thing. We might need more input on that. Although I'm pretty sure it multiplies his base power and not his already doubled power.
 
>If Unohana does scale than so would Yamamoto which would in turn cause Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Renji to scale since he fought Volstanding Bazz-B who managed to offset one of Shikai Yamamoto's flame attack in base.

@Peter this is just blatantly untrue. Yama's attack KO'd Bazz, As, and NaNaNa regardless of the fact that Bazz-B tried to counter the attack. Bazz-B barely surviving a casual attack from Ryuujin Jakka by having to shield himself from the flames does not scale him remotely, in fact, it's evidence that Bazz is a lower tier than Yama since he was still incapped regardless of throwing out his own power to mitigate the attack.
 
He still scales just barely because he can offset an casual attack from somebody higher than baseline High 6-A. Not to mention Meninas has a statement in the novel that makes her Possibly High 6-A and Bazz-B was able to hurt her as well as the Glutton girl that beat her. So no matter what they would still scale to High 6-A one way or another even if it's just baseline.
 
>Unohana rivals this because Kubo literally writes this during their fight. I highly recommend reading those chapters before commenting on this if for no other reason then just because it was a great fight.

Unohana was killing weaker versions of Kenpachi, in base without Shikai, to unlock his potential and he was able to oneshot her once he got to a point he was stronger than her. She doesn't scale at all to his current form, whatsoever, as his current form is scaled based solely upon his strike against the meteor WITH SHIKAI. Shikai is a demonstrable boost to any Shinigami, so you cannot scale these two from one another. As to the point of child Zaraki being able to overwhelm Unohana, you cannot scale backwards like that. Zaraki has had centuries of experience and development from that point. Unohana simply does not scale to 6-A even remotely.

>Pernida scales because again Kubo literally writes it has evoled to zaraki's level.

As to this, yes it does scale to 6-A but only with the caveat that it's an amp due to Pernida's powers letting it evolve to match whomever it has assaulted via nerves, so it'd be a separate distinction on Pernida's profile and an ability, not a base form (e.g. if Pernida managed to touch a 5-C person, Pernida would gradually gain 5-C physicals due to its powers).
 
He's able to hurt Base Gremmy who should be half the yield of the meteor calc which is 18 petatons since he created a clone which doubles his power to summon said meteor.
 
Pernida needs a second key with the amp from Kenpachi since profiles have the characters at their best.

Unohana scales to base Kenpachi, not Shikai Kenpachi. She even said that he regained the strenght he had when he fought her as a kid in the scan above. (Kenpachi stopped fighting her, she didn't go down.)

Bazz-B didn't die from Yamma's Shikai in Base Form. He didn't even used Vollständig to shield himself. Where is the proof that Bazz-B used something else that's not a casual reiatsu shield? I didn't read any special attack name from that scene.
 
Everything OP said is correct but:

@AppleLord

Uh no, Renji obviously has no parity with Zaraki. Dude was taken out by a breath. Keep in mind Unohana also had no idea how strong the 3 of them would be post-RG so there's a huge reliability issue here. The versions Unohana was thinking of were from Fullbring Arc so unless you think any of them can compete with current Zaraki....

Don't know where you're getting base Gerard being above RG either when he got no-diffed by one of them.

That's not how Gremmy's power multiplier works because his power doesn't double per clone created.

@Peter1129

Meninas was never stated to have any parity with Zaraki, so she's far below 6-A.
 
@Tarkatower this is from the sequel novel.

As the name "The Power" suggests, Meninas' ability is purely immense physical strength.

Although Meninas' power could have been judged as potentially being on par with Zaraki Kenpachi when it's a simple contest of strength, in the next instant, a 'power' that rivaled her's repelled the charred tree back into the sky.

Potentially on par with Zaraki so she's Possibly High 6-A.
 
Tarkatower said:
Everything OP said is correct but:
@AppleLord

Uh no, Renji obviously has no parity with Zaraki. Dude was taken out by a breath. Keep in mind Unohana also had no idea how strong the 3 of them would be post-RG so there's a huge reliability issue here. The versions Unohana was thinking of were from Fullbring Arc so unless you think any of them can compete with current Zaraki....

Don't know where you're getting base Gerard being above RG either when he got no-diffed by one of them.

That's not how Gremmy's power multiplier works because his power doesn't double per clone created.

@Peter1129

Meninas was never stated to have any parity with Zaraki, so she's far below 6-A.
Click to expand...
All of this was already explained, go read the older threads.

  • Renji was caught off-guard while in base Form. God Size Gerard >> Base Renji.
  • Unohana is scaling them to base Kenpachi. You either say the Author or Unohana are lying or accept it. (Renji even told Jackie he kept training to reach Aizen level of power in Fullbring Arc.)
  • Base Gerard > Senjumaru Royal Guard member
  • Gremmy multiplier works by doubling his power x each clone.
  • Meninas been compared to Zaraki was mentioned on the novel sequel.
 
@AppleLord Just gonna say a few things. Base Gerard isn't stronger than Senjumaru. He was stronger than a fake that Senjumaru created. We don't really know how strong the real Senjumaru is. But he's probably comparable to the likes of Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Renji as the Royal Guards were the ones who trained him.

Rather than doubling his already multiplied power I'm pretty sure he doubles and triples his base power with clones. But like I said before we are probably going to need more input for this one.
 
@Peter1129

I see. Though that's a huge potentially.

@AppleLord
uh....which "older threads"? I'm not going to look through 1000 threads. Give me specific links.

1. Bit of a lame excuse for a fodder to not be in his proper place. Both him and Rukia were knocked out for the whole fight which indicates to me they were never meant to be strong enough to contribute in the first place.

2. Yeah Renji did say that.....so what?
My position is that Unohana hyperbolized the the hell out of the "rival" part and once again, she had no idea how strong any of them would be post-RG and would have only known how strong they'd be in Fullbring arc.

3. Which isn't the same as saying that Base Gerard is above the RG barring Ichibei since they're clearly not all equal.....nevermind that's not 100% confirmed since that was a Senjumaru puppet whose needle Gerard smashed.

4. Gremmy's power doubled only when there were 2 Gremmy's. number of Gremmy's = multiplicative power of his imagination. 3 Gremmy's = x3 the imagination power because that's 3 people contributing to the Visionary.
 
@Tarkatower Giant Gerard scales to Eyepatchless Shikai Kenpachi. Bankai Renji would be scaled to Base Kenpachi scaling from Bazz-B who will be High 6-A from offsetting a casual attack from Shikai Yamamoto and being comparable to Meninas who is potentially comparable to Base Kenpachi. They are both High 6-A but there is still a massive difference in power between them.
 
Tarkatower said:
wall of text
Click to expand...
  • Neither will I look them for you.
  • Fodders who are above Captains with Bankai who fought people stronger than Ulquiorra.
  • So? Either Unohana, Renji and the Author are right or you think they are lying.
  • That's a good point. Base Gerard is Featless. Can't power scale to anyone. Gremmy stronger than him. GG.
  • Greemy power is doubled when a second Gremmy is created.
Example: Gremmy has 40 of power, second Gremmy appears and his power grows to 80. You can't make it consistence if his third Gremmy doesn't make his power double to 160 by having it be 120. That's not x2 his current power.
 
@AppleLord

>Bazz-B didn't die from Yamma's Shikai in Base Form. He didn't even used Vollständig to shield himself. Where is the proof that Bazz-B used something else that's not a casual reiatsu shield? I didn't read any special attack name from that scene.

Bazz-B himself states he used his own flames to counter Yama's . And was still incapped as well as two other Sternritter and KO'd for a sizeable amount of time. How did you think it was a reiatsu shield when Bazz verbatim stated it was his powers being used?
 
Yeah I don't think Bazz and Yama are comparable at all, Yama fodderized him with one attack... While surviving was a good feat, that scene all but proves they are not in the same tier


@tarkatower

" ''she had no idea how strong any of them would be post-RG and would have only known how strong they'd be in Fullbring arc. "

Actually that was somewhat Author/Unohana statement...also she seemed very familiar with the royal guards and would have an idea of RG training and how strong they would be if they came back.
 
Danny1112 said:
So what has been decided so far???
Click to expand...
Seems everyone is okay with the upgrade to the proposed chracters. I'm not sure about Yama-Jii, BazzB, or Renji but a seperate thread could be made for those topics. We need a staff member to implamant the changes so until Soldier blue gets the time we're just waiting at this point.
 
So,if Meninas "Possible High 6-A' ,how strong then Lilloto?And bankai Ginjo with arrancars.(who are much stronger then him,even in base).
 
Kenpachi who fought Gremmy = strenght of Teenage Kenpachi that fought Unohana long ago. He sealed his power after seen that she was the only person that could give him a good fight and didn't want to kill her, which he end up doing in the present.
 
@Dr. Fix

>That post shows Soldier agreed with something that has since been debunked rendering it inadmissabe

This is completely incorrect. Unohana in no way scaled to Shikai Kenpachi, who is the one who scales to 6-A due to the meteor feat. She has no scaling whatsoever to even begin to remotely suggest she is on that level. Nothing was debunked and simply stating as such does not make it so.

Simply put, provide proof Unohana scales to the Kenpachi who bonded with Nozarashi (you cannot) or accept she doesn't scale to 6-A in any way.
 
Xulrev said:
@Dr. Fix
>That post shows Soldier agreed with something that has since been debunked rendering it inadmissabe

This is completely incorrect. Unohana in no way scaled to Shikai Kenpachi, who is the one who scales to 6-A due to the meteor feat. She has no scaling whatsoever to even begin to remotely suggest she is on that level. Nothing was debunked and simply stating as such does not make it so.

Simply put, provide proof Unohana scales to the Kenpachi who bonded with Nozarashi (you cannot) or accept she doesn't scale to 6-A in any way.
Click to expand...
Nobody is saying that she scales to Shikai Kenpachi. Smh. She scales to base Kenpachi who was above Greemy who needed to doubled his power to make the meteor feat, half of the meteor feat is Gremmy's base power and therefore scales to Base Kenpachi Unsealed and Unohana who fought this same strenght once before when he was a teenager.
 
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