- 137
- 23
You are thinking way too hard on things that are much more simple than it really seems
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bleach upgrades
- Thread starter Dr.Fix
- Start date
- Status
- 137
- 23
Why y'all keep saying 6-A was everyone downgraded to 6-A or something?
- 1,461
- 764
@AppleLord no your arguments simply aren't correct.
Gremmy imagining himself to be 6-A durability to survive the meteor would be a feat that occurs later. When Kenpachi in base slices him, Gremmy SPECIFICALLY STATED he was simply harder than steel. That is not a 6-A feat for base Kenpachi. You are fundamentally failling to grasp how his powers work and how scaling works.
Gremmy imagining himself to be 6-A durability to survive the meteor would be a feat that occurs later. When Kenpachi in base slices him, Gremmy SPECIFICALLY STATED he was simply harder than steel. That is not a 6-A feat for base Kenpachi. You are fundamentally failling to grasp how his powers work and how scaling works.
- 1,461
- 764
Are you honestly disagreeing with the feats themselves, shown by Gremmy stating himself to be harder than steel and Kenpachi slashing him, and that being the only feat we get of Kenpachi overcoming Gremmy's durability when Gremmy was trying to resist his slashes??
Agreement does not matter here when the people disagreeing do not understand what they argue.
Agreement does not matter here when the people disagreeing do not understand what they argue.
- 14,409
- 1,692
It helps us determine it by setting it at unknown since he doesn't have any durability feat cause he was most likely gonna evade the attack. I even explained it, I left out this part cause it was so simple to understandSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
- 1,461
- 764
I concur with AstralKing in that regard. Gremmy's durability ought to be either Unknown or Varies. Setting a hard limit to his durability is either fanciful headcanon and extrapolation from feats that simply do not exist or outright wank to falsely inflate the verse and its scaling.
- 8,136
- 2,155
That's exactly what I posted several times that it should be Varies,I even explained it relies on his imagination.
- 1,461
- 764
@AppleLord I understand that yes but I have proven your arguments wrong, factually, with context from the source material itself, numerous times. So I care not for disagreement with my points when the evidence shows this entire attempt at a CRT to be rooted in misinformation. Others may make of that what they will but that does nothing at all to alter the facts of the case, thus my argumentation in the first place. I had hoped this all to be implicit in my first statement but such is seemingly not the case.
- 2,684
- 317
Also Kenpachi cut through the meteor which gives him 6-A Potency but he barely cuts through Gerard's sword
- 2,684
- 317
So would Gerard's sword have 6-A Durability ?
- 533
- 43
This whole thread has gone of point lol,first let me clarify some misconception, about the high 6a base gremmy, now hax and DC are two different things, and every hax character must have a tier to clarify his/her limit's, now according to gremmy statement, "now my power of imagination has been doubled " he even said that the metoer was his strongest power for DC that means two gremmy's limit in power is 18.79 petatons the accepted one,now gremmy said his power of imagination has doubled meaning his base is half of it,now 18.79 petatons/2=9petatons still multi-continent, as for kenpachi scaling,yes gremmy made himself to be hard as steel but this is hax and was done only at that time,after that kenpachi was still injuring gremmy and pressured gremmy to even double his tier which Kenny matched with shikai,also kenpachi was also slaping away and tanking attacks from high6a base gremmy,even askin confirmed that base gremmy and base kenpachi were in the same tier,hence base kenpachi scales and it's not arguable.
- 1,461
- 764
@Danny1112
You just reiterated things which have been shown to be false. We are arguing solely about base Kenpachi, whose ONLY feat against Gremmy's durability is cutting him when he was harder than steel. The only other time he hits Gremmy is when Gremmy allowed himself to be hit to catch Kenpachi's sword, and Kenny slashed him on the return stroke when Gremmy hadn't hardened his body.
Nobody seems to be able to contribute a single 6-A attack potency feat for Kenpachi in base, because none exists.
You just reiterated things which have been shown to be false. We are arguing solely about base Kenpachi, whose ONLY feat against Gremmy's durability is cutting him when he was harder than steel. The only other time he hits Gremmy is when Gremmy allowed himself to be hit to catch Kenpachi's sword, and Kenny slashed him on the return stroke when Gremmy hadn't hardened his body.
Nobody seems to be able to contribute a single 6-A attack potency feat for Kenpachi in base, because none exists.
- 9,678
- 8,195
Can someone paraphrase what's going on plz?
- 9,678
- 8,195
Ah ok, thanks my fellow peter
- 2,684
- 317
Wait I'm gonna read the fight again
- 533
- 43
Seems like you have little knowledge on bleach my dude"Xulrev said:
As for the kenpachi slashing gremmy I would come to that,but kenpachi has more than enough feats to scale to base gremmy
1)kenpachi was capable of slapping and no selling attacks from base gremmy
2)kenpachi was tanking explosions from gremmy,even gremmy was sure it would kill him but it didn't.
3)kenpachi was capable of pressuring gremmy to the extent gremmy was forced to multiply his tier.
4)It was stated that base gremmy and base kenpachi were in the same tier.
Hence kenpachi easily scales and it's not debatable
- 2,684
- 317
I'm reading the Gremmy chapter again
- 1,461
- 764
@Danny
You're comparing Kenpachi tanking missiles and machine guns to 6-A, due to Gremmy summoning an object, and saying that is legitimate scaling. If Superman picked up a gun and shot someone with it, the gun doesn't automatically scale to Tier 5, this should be intuitive.
That point notwithstanding, you've still failed to produce menaingful evidence that Gremmy possesses 6-A durability and Kenpachi harming him is indicative, in base, of 6-A attack potency. Let's actually try to engage the central point of my claim, and try to refute it, please. Simply repeating 'Gremmy created a meteor and let it fall on Seireitei thus he's 6-A in every physical stat' when he's a reality warper does not follow, logically, and is not a valid argument. If Gremmy had picked up the meteor and flung it, yup you would be 100% correct. He did not, and created it via hax, and his body itself is significantly weaker to the point that his body literally exploded from trying to replicate Kenpachi's physicals, so he is not, will not be, and does not scale to, 6-A physicals.
And you're insinuating I have no knowledge of Bleach based on....what, exactly? Considering I have been giving explicit references and even scans, I would presume my knowledge speaks for itself, and these ad hominem attacks are pointless and indicative of an inability to defend one's point properly.
You're comparing Kenpachi tanking missiles and machine guns to 6-A, due to Gremmy summoning an object, and saying that is legitimate scaling. If Superman picked up a gun and shot someone with it, the gun doesn't automatically scale to Tier 5, this should be intuitive.
That point notwithstanding, you've still failed to produce menaingful evidence that Gremmy possesses 6-A durability and Kenpachi harming him is indicative, in base, of 6-A attack potency. Let's actually try to engage the central point of my claim, and try to refute it, please. Simply repeating 'Gremmy created a meteor and let it fall on Seireitei thus he's 6-A in every physical stat' when he's a reality warper does not follow, logically, and is not a valid argument. If Gremmy had picked up the meteor and flung it, yup you would be 100% correct. He did not, and created it via hax, and his body itself is significantly weaker to the point that his body literally exploded from trying to replicate Kenpachi's physicals, so he is not, will not be, and does not scale to, 6-A physicals.
And you're insinuating I have no knowledge of Bleach based on....what, exactly? Considering I have been giving explicit references and even scans, I would presume my knowledge speaks for itself, and these ad hominem attacks are pointless and indicative of an inability to defend one's point properly.
- 137
- 23
Kenpachi at base is high 6-A. He was able to fight harm and overthrow someone who is superior to his shikai state. Hence 3v1 and them all needing Bankais. Gerard is high 6-A and it's undeniable when he is brute strength. Him being superior to shikai kenny, being superior to byakuya and toshiro all proves this. Kenpachi had to go Bankai. IIRC he survived a head slash from Bankai kenny too, tho cleaved In two on the final attack.
Base kenny is at high 6-A as I already said. Wouldn't make sense for him to jump multiple tiers over a shikai, and his shikai didn't make that much of a difference in the fight, meaning the gap isn't that big, and his base is high 6-A. His shikai is pretty much, more cutting power, that's it. Which is more reason why base kenny is high 6-A with his shikai just giving him more cutting power.
Gremmy scales above base kenny, who i Said was high 6-A. Unless kenny got a poweruo after gremmy which he didn't making gremmy scale. Gremmy has a high 6-A feat as well as kenpachi, his durability does indeed scale. Unless proven otherwise. Ignore that steel nonsense. Remember in dragon ball super the guy with the steel body lmao. Same nonsense here, he just improved his durability is all
Base kenny is at high 6-A as I already said. Wouldn't make sense for him to jump multiple tiers over a shikai, and his shikai didn't make that much of a difference in the fight, meaning the gap isn't that big, and his base is high 6-A. His shikai is pretty much, more cutting power, that's it. Which is more reason why base kenny is high 6-A with his shikai just giving him more cutting power.
Gremmy scales above base kenny, who i Said was high 6-A. Unless kenny got a poweruo after gremmy which he didn't making gremmy scale. Gremmy has a high 6-A feat as well as kenpachi, his durability does indeed scale. Unless proven otherwise. Ignore that steel nonsense. Remember in dragon ball super the guy with the steel body lmao. Same nonsense here, he just improved his durability is all
- 137
- 23
Didn't wanna type all that but oh well
- 1,461
- 764
Gerard doesn't actually scale to being on Kenpachi's level, physically, at all.
In shikai, Kenpachi clashes with Gerard, blocking Gerard's strike and forcing his sword away , but as a result Kenpachi gets MASSIVELY injured and continually does so throughout the fight. Every clash they have, even when Kenpachi is wounded, is Gerard's sword going flying away from the impact. Gerard is never directly hit by Kenpachi thus we cannot say he has 6-A durability, merely that his sword and shield can withstand the impact of being deflected away, with said sword being a hax-inducing weapons that retributes any damage inflicted upon it back toward the source of damage, thus Kenpachi being weakened massively in the fight.
Further still, Kenpachi had come close to death twice before his fight with Gerard and after fighting Gremmy. We know for a fact he improves any times he comes close to dying.
So, I ask you: how does Gerard scale to 6-A in his God Form, scaling that comes from Kenpachi Zaraki at that, when the fight was literally 'Can't harm an injured Kenpachi and never gets his by his Shikai'?
Answer: You cannot scale him from Kenpachi considering he was obviously inferior, and then scale Kenpachi back to his base from Gerard after having scaled Gerard to Shikai Kenpachi.
This circular logic and reasoning has got to stop if we care about accuracy whatsoever.
In shikai, Kenpachi clashes with Gerard, blocking Gerard's strike and forcing his sword away , but as a result Kenpachi gets MASSIVELY injured and continually does so throughout the fight. Every clash they have, even when Kenpachi is wounded, is Gerard's sword going flying away from the impact. Gerard is never directly hit by Kenpachi thus we cannot say he has 6-A durability, merely that his sword and shield can withstand the impact of being deflected away, with said sword being a hax-inducing weapons that retributes any damage inflicted upon it back toward the source of damage, thus Kenpachi being weakened massively in the fight.
Further still, Kenpachi had come close to death twice before his fight with Gerard and after fighting Gremmy. We know for a fact he improves any times he comes close to dying.
So, I ask you: how does Gerard scale to 6-A in his God Form, scaling that comes from Kenpachi Zaraki at that, when the fight was literally 'Can't harm an injured Kenpachi and never gets his by his Shikai'?
Answer: You cannot scale him from Kenpachi considering he was obviously inferior, and then scale Kenpachi back to his base from Gerard after having scaled Gerard to Shikai Kenpachi.
This circular logic and reasoning has got to stop if we care about accuracy whatsoever.
- 137
- 23
Except he was hit by Bankai kenny. Does that not mean anything either? You're using silly logic like "has never been hit by the shikai so doesn't scale." But both his shield and his weapon were>his shikai meaning Gerard was stronger than kenpachi as a whole.
You're also assuming durability doesn't scale to AP in most cases. Gerard is stronger than shikai kenny, and when he evolves he is even stronger than Bankai kenny who was able to bite his arm off and cut his shield in half when before he couldn't get the job done. Meaning you literally have to just be strong enough. Gerard also survived a deep head slash from Bankai kenny. Not shikai, but Bankai which is far more impressive. He wasn't hit by shikai but actual Bankai. Shikai Kenpachi wasn't gunan get the job done and that shows.
You are nitpicking wayyy too much.
You're also assuming durability doesn't scale to AP in most cases. Gerard is stronger than shikai kenny, and when he evolves he is even stronger than Bankai kenny who was able to bite his arm off and cut his shield in half when before he couldn't get the job done. Meaning you literally have to just be strong enough. Gerard also survived a deep head slash from Bankai kenny. Not shikai, but Bankai which is far more impressive. He wasn't hit by shikai but actual Bankai. Shikai Kenpachi wasn't gunan get the job done and that shows.
You are nitpicking wayyy too much.
- 137
- 23
And honestly your issue sounds like high 6-A itself in bleach. That's what it comes down to, when you are saying not even Gerard is high 6-A when he was clearly stronger than kenpachi and in bleach reiatsu scales to every stat everyone knows this. The people at high 6-A deserve to be such, you are finding things to nitpick to make it seem inaccurate unless you try to get rid of high 6-A altogether.
I'm getting tired of this so I'm not going to reply back to this topic. Take it how you want, I think it all makes sense but gremmy durability varies anyway
I'm getting tired of this so I'm not going to reply back to this topic. Take it how you want, I think it all makes sense but gremmy durability varies anyway
- 1,461
- 764
So wait, you're arguing that Gerard is vastly above Shikai yes, but that base Kenpachi also scales to him by catching his stomp....so base Kenpachi scales above Shikai Kenpachi which is how we scale from Gerard for Kenpachi?
This is why I am 'nitpicking' as you put it. Because the logic and scaling is circular and either bunk or needs re-worked.
This is why I am 'nitpicking' as you put it. Because the logic and scaling is circular and either bunk or needs re-worked.
- 626
- 90
Okay I would like to clear up some things worth clearing without repeating my previous comment
First off,Gremmy Claimed and I quote his body was much harder than steel ...he never said it was "as hard as steel" how harder than steel it was is unknown...but it was definitely not steel.
The arguments if AP==durability in a character or not is irrelevant in Gremmy's case
If you read the fight,Gremmy's body isn't real per say but a figment of his imagination..his durability is as hard as his imagination or rather his imagination power output allows,however Gremmy imagination power has limits and he can increase those limits by doubling his powers via cloning.with both clones contributing to the same imagination,its power is "doubled"
This is proven when base kenpachi slashes sliced through base Gremmy,no matter how hard he tried to defend
However when his imagination power output was doubled,he was able to tank base Ken slashes with no injuries
whatsoever.i think this makes it undoubtedly clear that both Gremmy AP and durability scales to his imagination power output.
CASE
These are clear cut facts with clear cut evidence stated throughout the thread and would similarly need clear cut facts to debunk them. Unclear facts,headcanon and half-assed knowledge should be shelved,it is a drag and it is unnecessarily prolonging the thread.
First off,Gremmy Claimed and I quote his body was much harder than steel ...he never said it was "as hard as steel" how harder than steel it was is unknown...but it was definitely not steel.
The arguments if AP==durability in a character or not is irrelevant in Gremmy's case
If you read the fight,Gremmy's body isn't real per say but a figment of his imagination..his durability is as hard as his imagination or rather his imagination power output allows,however Gremmy imagination power has limits and he can increase those limits by doubling his powers via cloning.with both clones contributing to the same imagination,its power is "doubled"
This is proven when base kenpachi slashes sliced through base Gremmy,no matter how hard he tried to defend
However when his imagination power output was doubled,he was able to tank base Ken slashes with no injuries
whatsoever.i think this makes it undoubtedly clear that both Gremmy AP and durability scales to his imagination power output.
CASE
- Gremmy AP and Physical durability is powered by the same energy as scans show .fact
- doubled Gremmy has a 18.79 petatons energy output for Summoning the meteor which is high 6-A,one Gremmy is 9 petatons,still high 6-A..simple math and logic.Fact
- base kenpachi was able to match that 9 petatons easily as base Gremmy using his strongest attacks could not put him down and stop himself from being damaged,no matter how hard he tried.Fact
- base kenpachi is 6-A at 9 petatons ....full power Unohana(including bankai) scales and is also 6-A as Kenpachi had to reach that level of power to defeat her(noting the fact that she healed/replenished Kenpachi and herself for days throughout the fight).Fact
- Shikai kenpachi is high 6-A at 18 petatons for busting the meteor and so is doubled Gremmy energy output,hence also his durability as he planned to tank the meteor and supported by base kenpachi at 9 petatons not damaging him.
- base Kenpachi high 6-A....Unohana also high 6-A or extremely close to it. Fact
- i am not sure if pernida/Nemuri scales but the fact that he?she?It adapted to kenpachi is a good point.unclear
These are clear cut facts with clear cut evidence stated throughout the thread and would similarly need clear cut facts to debunk them. Unclear facts,headcanon and half-assed knowledge should be shelved,it is a drag and it is unnecessarily prolonging the thread.
- 2,684
- 317
I guess that would be true
- 2,684
- 317
But doesnt that make Gremmy's durability basically irrelevant ?
- 13,509
- 5,665
Nah. If Gremmy's imagination (which caps out at 9 petatons) couldn't stop Kenpachi despite trying his hardest to do so, Base Ken scales above his max output, hence High 6-A Kenny.
- Status
Similar threads
