Bleach upgrades

[Ren_Nightray]

Guys excuse me but why do you think that Gremmy's imagination has limit ?

If he had limit, he wouldn't make himself stronger than he has been.He made himself stronger than Kenpachi but his body couldn't handle that much of power so he exploded. If he had imagined a body that can bear that much power, he could have beaten Kenpachi easily. I mean even Kenpachi's body couldn't handle more of his own power and his arm broke.

Limit means you can't pass that border. But Gremmy did pass that border by making himself more powerful than he has been.

 

[AppleLord]

Even Kenpachi's body couldn't handle his strenght his arm blow up.

 

[Zzsax]

Guys excuse me but why do you think that Gremmy's imagination has limit ?

If he had limit, he wouldn't make himself stronger than he has been.He made himself stronger than Kenpachi but his body couldn't handle that much of power so he exploded. If he had imagined a body that can bear that much power, he could have beaten Kenpachi easily. I mean even Kenpachi's body couldn't handle more of his own power and his arm broke.

Limit means you can't pass that border. But Gremmy did pass that border by making himself more powerful than he has been.

Gremmy does have limits, which is why he needs real life clones to double his powers and increase those limits..he was hyperventilating after six clones though.....but in theory he could imagine himself not being tired and continue spamming clones or one could spam two clones.those two could double up to four,those four to eight to sixteen.....his power increasing exponentially and on our way to NLF.

 

[Ren_Nightray]

Why does he need a clone to double his powers tho? He can just imagine "I want my imagination powers to be doubled." and that's it.

He just cloned himself to show Kenpachi that he can create life IMO. Let creating life alone, he can grant them their own powers too.(Shaz Domino has immortality so long as reiatsu exists where he is and Guanel Lee has something like non-corporeality.)

Doubling imagination is sounds like nonsense to be honest. How can you double your imagination LMAO?

Gremmy is a nonsense character that should have never ever created. His power is really goes to NLF.

 

[Xulrev]

>This is proven when base kenpachi slashes sliced through base Gremmy,no matter how hard he tried to defend

Corect, when Gremmy tried, once, by making himself harder than steel, explicitly.

>Unclear facts,headcanon and half-assed knowledge should be shelved,it is a drag and it is unnecessarily prolonging the thread.

It's odd to me you would state this yet continue to ignore the facts of the fight as they occurred.

This thread obviously will go nowhere until Matthew and Soldier Blue join it.

 

[AppleLord]

Reaitsu = AP and DR.

 

[Zzsax]

>This is proven when base kenpachi slashes sliced through base Gremmy,no matter how hard he tried to defend

Corect, when Gremmy tried, once, by making himself harder than steel, explicitly.

>Unclear facts,headcanon and half-assed knowledge should be shelved,it is a drag and it is unnecessarily prolonging the thread.

It's odd to me you would state this yet continue to ignore the facts of the fight as they occurred.

This thread obviously will go nowhere until Matthew and Soldier Blue join it.

The thread has indeed went somewhere and Majority of its issues has being settled with facts that majority agrees with ..we are just waiting on them to implement the changes


I don't know what your argument is at this point or why you are so fixated on steel as a reference ,when he explicitly said "harder than steel",I repeat HARDER THAN STEEL!.....even if he had said "as hard as steel" that is all but 8-B-8-A durability,something bleach mid-tiers surpassed ages ago...

Arrancars claims their hierro(skin) is as hard as iron,but then you have low level arrancar tanking city level attacks and the top ones tanking mountain level attacks.

And Gremmy didn't try once (read the scans)practically everything he threw at kenpachi at anytime got sliced up....and did you miss the part where he doubled up his power and base kenpachi couldn't cut him with the regular attacks anymore... According to you, Gremmy physical durability max out as steel, which kenpachi previously cut,so why is it kenpachi suddenly couldn't cut him.??? ...See the flaw in your argument now


I'll repeat,if you are debunking this bring clear cut facts.... Next please,your argument against this has no basis at all,just tongue in the cheek comments.

 

[Artemiisia-X]

Tongue in the cheek never heard that before lmao..

 

[Zzsax]

Lol I meant tongue in cheek but tongue in the cheek sounds good too

 

[Artemiisia-X]

I was giggling at that if you thinking what I'm thinking

 

[Xulrev]

Continuing this is meaningless obviously, as stated before, so let's wait until the ones aforementioned join in. I don't see what's so difficult about simply dropping it for now as it will go nowhere.

However, since you insist upon it:

When did Kenpachi ever fail to slash Gremmy in base? He actually never fails to harm him. He assaults him twice, once with his first swing, when Gremmy has yet to even begin trying in the fight and thus any rationalization of him somehow hardening himself to multi-continental durability is absurdly reaching (and lacking feats), and then again when Gremmy intentionally lets Kenpachi hit him to trap his sword to hit him with a crushing blow and then Gremmy begins to imagine his own death thus per his own power he is frail and going to die. The only hit that fails is after Gremmy has another Gremmy that can focus solely on defense and is now going all out, and nothing about the entire fight before then tells us that Gremmy was using his maximum output. Unless you want to argue these are continental missiles or that this was continental lava regardless of none of it having any feats as such.

So if the argument is that Gremmy somehow was outputting his maximum power the entire fight, why would he use guns missiles lava and water for offense and steel for defense instead of simply crushing Kenpachi with a continent-busting blow?

It's also worth noting Gremmy can indeed summon objects Kenpachi is incapable of slicing in base , just not make himself that hard for some reason, or else he obviously would have.

So the entire argument really is bunk

 

[Xulrev]

In fact, allow me to shift goalposts as has been done so numerous times on this post in opposition of me:

Kenpachi failed to slash something Gremmy created , in base, with only one Gremmy extant. Kenpachi objectively can no longer scale to 6-A based on this, from the argumentation given thus far, meaning we have nothing other than a 'harder than steel' claim to scale base Kenpachi off of, as we cannot argue around that feat anymore and simply ignore it to say 'well he harmed Gremmy' and presume he simultaneously can and cannot harm Gremmy going all out to defend himself.

Kenpachi factually cannot scale to Gremmy at his (alleged) full power based on that singular feat as he is obviously and vaguely weaker than Gremmy. Debunk it or drop the argumentation, goalpost shifted.

 

[Artemiisia-X]

Nitpicking

 

[Xulrev]

I accept the concession as such then, since this is actually a feat based in your own argumentation that nullifies your entire point.

If you've nothing to say beyond 'nitpicking' and have no actual counters to the evidence provided, kindly remove yourself from the thread so that honest interpretation and debate may occur. Thank you for the participation and letting my fully show how the scaling is bunk, however.

 

[Artemiisia-X]

I already have argued against that, your just saying stuff very nitpicky. My scaling above makes perfect sense. You are just nitpicking things that you shouldn't and isn't necessary. Nothing you said goes against the essay I already said above. Which I'm not doing again. Your issue is high 6-A In general and ima leave it at that.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Xulrev

>Kenny swings

>Gremmy is fine

>"I imagined my body is harder than steel"

>"Well why didn't you say so"

>Proceeds to cut through Gremmy

Its like you think Kenpachi can't apply more pressure and always swings full force from the start.

 

[Artemiisia-X]

It seems like no one is on your side, for good reasons, as you are nitpicking to the extreme. I hope you do this to all verses.

 

[AppleLord]

@Xulrev has a point. I'll remain neutral on this.

 

[Artemiisia-X]

Alright ima adress some misconceptions and clear up stuff regarding bleach this may or may not help this scaling

This is a verse with swords but Anyone with reiatsu comparable to or close enough to someone else will be able to cut the other person provided they actually landed. Now, if one person has reiatsu far superior to the other, even swords won't cut the person. This is proven with kenpachi and aizen. You need reiatsu sufficient enough to cut the person.

So how do you scale others? Byakuya can cut kenpachi and kenpachi cut byakuya because the reiatsu gap isn't all that significant. So if you can cut someone in bleach, how do you scale the durability of the person you cut? I mean, I guess it's the significance of the strike and if that person is willing to keep fighting fine afterwards. Some people like toshiro is cut once by aizen and is down, halibel cut once and downed, so the durability of these two wouldn't scale since they couldn't handle it. Aizen took a getsuga tensho, even tho cut, he was still fine. So look at the case of gremmy, he was able to keep going after being cut by kenpachi, a fodder with insufficient reiatsu would of been downed in one cut.

Personally I don't believe in the massive gap between the high 6-As and 7-As. I'm pretty sure you can find a few examples of that gap being unrealistic

 

[Dr.Fix]

Let's try and keep it civil guys.

 

[Zzsax]

@xurlev

Okay obviously this thread has been concluded with facts and claims against it neatly debunked..since the staff aren't here to implement this,i guess we having fun now.LOL,else I don't know why you keep ignoring facts in front of you..oh well,a little fun won't hurt anyone it's not like I hate talking about manga/anime


When did Kenpachi ever fail to slash Gremmy in base? He actually never fails to harm him


Huh?what?that was your ideology not mine.. you were the one who insisted base Gremmy>> base Kenpachi,i had to post scans(look above)to neatly debunk you and coerce you into actually reading fight..Although base Kenpachi did fail to damage doubled up Gremmy.


It's also worth noting Gremmy can indeed summon objects Kenpachi is incapable of slicing in base , just not make himself that hard for some reason, or else he obviously would have.......Kenpachi failed to slash something Gremmy created , in base, with only one Gremmy extant. Kenpachi objectively can no longer scale to 6-A based on this, from the argumentation given thus far,

So the entire argument really is bunk


What?Nitpicking really?how low? Did you seriously just ignore the scans of kenpachi slicing that same beam in the very same chapter,next freaking page..

LOL...WHAT THE HELL DUDE??? ,this is LAUGHABLE!am having a hell of a LAUGH ....the entire PREMISE of the fight is Gremmy not being able to imagine a thing that Kenpachi can't cut,which basically drove Gremmy crazy..LOL this dude.

So if the argument is that Gremmy somehow was outputting his maximum power the entire fight, why would he use guns missiles lava and water for offense and steel for defense instead of simply crushing Kenpachi with a continent-busting blow?

Those Guns and missles where damaging kenpachi who slaps away mountain level ceros with his bare hands,i think that speaks for itself,the potency of missles and guns in the verse are unknown but they apparently damage beings with durability well above mountain level...however if you still iffy about the guns,there where clear cut supernatural attacks like Kenpachi being crushed by a giant hand when trapped,that should be the full brunt of Gremmy AP there considering he(kenny) was trapped and that would have been a chance to crush him... Gremmy really wanted to win and was outputing his max power obviously, which clearly wasnt enough prompting him to increase his power levels several times...... again your fixation on steel has been corrected(read the above comments)..LoL


. The only hit that fails is after Gremmy has another Gremmy that can focus solely on defense and is now going all out, and nothing about the entire fight before then tells us that Gremmy was using his maximum output.


Another Gremmy focus solely on defense?nope that is headcanon..the canon answer is simpler and accurate his imagination power output was doubled hence his attack and defense capabilities.

 

[Xulrev]

I'm assuming nobody is actually reading the scans linked.

The central point I have refuted is thus: "Kenpachi can slice everything Gremmy throws at him, thus he is 6-A in base."

I have demonstrably proven this wrong here: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XKlhz3xL...hHXpMdP-1VktmHdFaBC48gCHM/s16000/0574-017.png

That link is a summoned item Gremmy blocks Kenpachi's swing with. He fails to slash through it. His only feat against Gremmy's durability in this entire fight is slicing through him with the very first hit when Gremmy was 'harder than steel' per his own words.

There is nowhere else for this to go. It is being called nitpicking by people who simply don't want to admit the feat defeats the central point. I would appreciate this stop being dragged out needlessly, in all honestly.

 

[Peter1129]

@Xulrev Uhh Zzsax posted a scan of Kenpachi slicing through that thing in the first page of the next chapter.

 

[Xulrev]

So Kenpachi fails to slice the beam at first. He then proceeds to cut it apart when Gremmy shifts his attention to Kenpachi and focuses on the statement that Gremmy himself cannot maintain focus on multiple objects.

This all is beside the point, still, that of Gremmy not having any demonstrable 6-A durability feats.

Over 140 messages in this thread and nobody has provided a single one of those for which we might scale Kenpachi's swings.

 

[Zzsax]

@xurlev

obviously and vaguely weaker than Gremmy.

When did Kenpachi ever fail to slash Gremmy in base?


I'll say this again,i said it earlier,like most things and am saying it now...i don't think you understand how bleach works..."obviously weaker than Gremmy" and "when did kenpachi ever fail to slash Gremmy" don't go together,either that or your statement are beginning to contradict themselves.

kenpachi obviously matches base Gremmy in power and even threatens to overpower him


Kenpachi factually cannot scale to Gremmy at his (alleged) full power based on that singular feat as he is obviously and vaguely weaker than Gremmy. Debunk it or drop the argumentation, goalpost shifted.

This was literally your statement,it was the stance for your Argument

Great the famous "singular feat" has been debunked are we dropping this or what... I guess you could continue if you want,bringing actual facts and no nitpicky when doing so would be nice please...

 

[Zzsax]

So Kenpachi fails to slice the beam at first. He then proceeds to cut it apart when Gremmy shifts his attention to Kenpachi and focuses on the statement that Gremmy himself cannot maintain focus on multiple objects.

This all is beside the point, still, that of Gremmy not having any demonstrable 6-A durability feats.

Over 140 messages in this thread and nobody has provided a single one of those for which we might scale Kenpachi's swings.

fails to slice beam?what?...Gremmy shift his attention to statement?what?dude you all over the place..and then suddenly your own point is now besides the point.. Lol okay this is hilarious

This got settled before hitting a 100 comments,am just humoring you actually,most of us are,including the OP,lol

 

[Zzsax]

@Xulrev Uhh Zzsax posted a scan of Kenpachi slicing through that thing in the first page of the next chapter.


It was ignored,that happens sometimes when your claims are debunked

 

[Artemiisia-X]

My explanations above perfectly justfies the durability lol. Slicing doesn't equal doesn't scale in bleach, only if the opponent is done after said slice. Casue anyone with comparable reiatsu or somewhere near would indeed be able to cut each other with their swords. So being cut doesn't exactly mean the person wouldn't scale

 

[Xulrev]

It wasn't ignored, but the point of Gremmy having 6-A durability has not been justified or explained at all with any feats. I admit that the scan in question was mistaken and have no problem admitting as such. But the behavior in this thread is utterly atrocious.

I will, for the third time, state that until Matthew or Soldier Blue enter the thread, there is no point continuing it as no evidence or concrete argumentation has been given for the original stipulation. When the point of Gremmy's durability was brought up, goalposts were shifted to scale from Gerard. When that circular logic was pointd out, goalposts were shifted back.

The argument is that Gremmy has the maximum output, allegedly, of 6-A with his imagination. This is also a guy who used missiles, lava, and guns to take on Kenpachi. Unless we want to honestly and earnestly argue Gremmy's entire arsenal as a reality warper is solely 6-A and not variable, as is provable with feats and canon, then the original argument and position hold no water.

This thread will continue to bounce back and forth. It should be locked until Matthew or Soldier comment.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Xulrev. I will lock the thread until either Soldier Blue or Matthew reopen it and comment.