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That's his shikai
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Bleach upgrades
- Thread starter Dr.Fix
- Start date
- Status
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Base Kenpachi is not above Gremmy, he needed to be in Shikai to best him. Further, scaling Gremmy's cloning to the meteor is not how Attack Potency works. He imagined it into being. It's not Attack Potency and not usable for scaling on this site.
Further, Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi>>Kenpachi having just slain Unohana by the mechanics of how Bleach works.
Your point is null and moot, Unohana does not scale.
Further, Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi>>Kenpachi having just slain Unohana by the mechanics of how Bleach works.
Your point is null and moot, Unohana does not scale.
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Why is Base Ken not above Gremmy? Gremmy needed to double his power in an attempt to beat Kenny since everything else had failed. Nozarashi then gets whipped out and destroys the meteor.
Base Ken learnt Nozarashi's name right after Unohana died so she does scale. If, by the mechanics of how Bleach works, you are referring to the power boost of something when its wielder knows its name, then Base Ken didn't get any stronger since the amp only applies to the tech (weapon in this case).
Base Ken learnt Nozarashi's name right after Unohana died so she does scale. If, by the mechanics of how Bleach works, you are referring to the power boost of something when its wielder knows its name, then Base Ken didn't get any stronger since the amp only applies to the tech (weapon in this case).
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>Base Ken learnt Nozarashi's name right after Unohana died so she does scale
After being the key word, yes, I am glad to see we agree on this point.
>Why is Base Ken not above Gremmy? Gremmy needed to double his power in an attempt to beat Kenny since everything else had failed. Nozarashi then gets whipped out and destroys the meteor.
Gremmy needed to double his power to visualize a meteor that large. He himself did not exert the force necessary to destroy Soul Society nor half of that with one body, thus he is not 6-A in durability at base to scale Kenpachi to. Nothing whatsoever implies this. Gremmy himself merely imagined himself, and I quote, harder than steel , which Kenpachi then cut.
This asinine scaling and circular logic simply must stop if we are to be as accurate as possible.
After being the key word, yes, I am glad to see we agree on this point.
>Why is Base Ken not above Gremmy? Gremmy needed to double his power in an attempt to beat Kenny since everything else had failed. Nozarashi then gets whipped out and destroys the meteor.
Gremmy needed to double his power to visualize a meteor that large. He himself did not exert the force necessary to destroy Soul Society nor half of that with one body, thus he is not 6-A in durability at base to scale Kenpachi to. Nothing whatsoever implies this. Gremmy himself merely imagined himself, and I quote, harder than steel , which Kenpachi then cut.
This asinine scaling and circular logic simply must stop if we are to be as accurate as possible.
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@xurlev
Base Kenpachi is not above Gremmy, he needed to be in Shikai to best him.
Wrong!base kenpachi matched gremmy blow for blow and Pressured him to make clones to double his powers.
Further, Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi>>Kenpachi having just slain Unohana by the mechanics of how Bleach works.
Wrong!Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi===kenpachi having just slain Unohana,not greater
Per Unohana words ,Nozarashi awakening and bonding occurred during the fight not after.like the scans above shows.
After said bonding,he was finally able to hear his zanpakuto and its name hence enabling him to achieve even greater power via Shikai.
Your point is null and moot, Unohana does not scale.
Actually they make a good point..unohana stomped pre-muken kenpachi even more badly than base ywach.she literally fodderized him hundred of times,each exchange taking mere minutes and she barely sustaining a scratch .this is zaraki kenpachi we are talking about here,feared by most captains
Also Unohana was part of the first Gotei 13 that ywach personally respected along with prime yama-ji..makes me remember when even Aizen was weary of engaging her back in SS arc.
I believe she does scale to base kenpachi,as kenpachi had to reach that level of power to defeat her ..barring that she had to double task and heal both kenpachi and herself hundred of times,again literally,so kenpachi could keep up and come out of the battle relatively unscathed.
She definitely scales to base kenpachi,definitely not shikai kenpachi but base...and if base kenpachi is accurately calc at 6-A,then 6-A she is
Oh and I advise to go read the fight again it,becomes clearer
Base Kenpachi is not above Gremmy, he needed to be in Shikai to best him.
Wrong!base kenpachi matched gremmy blow for blow and Pressured him to make clones to double his powers.
Further, Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi>>Kenpachi having just slain Unohana by the mechanics of how Bleach works.
Wrong!Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi===kenpachi having just slain Unohana,not greater
Per Unohana words ,Nozarashi awakening and bonding occurred during the fight not after.like the scans above shows.
After said bonding,he was finally able to hear his zanpakuto and its name hence enabling him to achieve even greater power via Shikai.
Your point is null and moot, Unohana does not scale.
Actually they make a good point..unohana stomped pre-muken kenpachi even more badly than base ywach.she literally fodderized him hundred of times,each exchange taking mere minutes and she barely sustaining a scratch .this is zaraki kenpachi we are talking about here,feared by most captains
Also Unohana was part of the first Gotei 13 that ywach personally respected along with prime yama-ji..makes me remember when even Aizen was weary of engaging her back in SS arc.
I believe she does scale to base kenpachi,as kenpachi had to reach that level of power to defeat her ..barring that she had to double task and heal both kenpachi and herself hundred of times,again literally,so kenpachi could keep up and come out of the battle relatively unscathed.
She definitely scales to base kenpachi,definitely not shikai kenpachi but base...and if base kenpachi is accurately calc at 6-A,then 6-A she is
Oh and I advise to go read the fight again it,becomes clearer
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Wow
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Literally none of what you said is true, remotely.
>Wrong!base kenpachi matched gremmy blow for blow and Pressured him to make clones to double his powers.
Gremmy was injured precisely once before cloning himself. He was harming Kenpachi pretty well and decided to eradicate all of Soul Society out of anger for Kenpachi not justifying his own beliefs. You are incorrect.
>Wrong!Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi===kenpachi having just slain Unohana,not greater
You do not know how a Zanpakuto works. Nozarashi, the Asauchi, bonded with Kenpachi and was heard by him AFTER the fight, not during. As seen with Ichigo and Urahara, this amplifies a Shinigami's power. You are factually mistaken.
>wall of text
None of this is remotely true. Kenpachi one-shotted Unohana when he got to a stage where his Zanpakuto recognized his willingness to hear it out, THEN he bonded with it. After having one-shot Unohana. Being part of the original Gotei 13 has nothing to do with this whatsoever.
Further, none of this engages the point that Gremmy does not have 6-A durability in base, thus Kenpachi does not scale to it except for in Shikai when he performs a 6-A feat.
The point remains, as originally stated, null and moot.
>Wrong!base kenpachi matched gremmy blow for blow and Pressured him to make clones to double his powers.
Gremmy was injured precisely once before cloning himself. He was harming Kenpachi pretty well and decided to eradicate all of Soul Society out of anger for Kenpachi not justifying his own beliefs. You are incorrect.
>Wrong!Kenpachi after bonding with Nozarashi===kenpachi having just slain Unohana,not greater
You do not know how a Zanpakuto works. Nozarashi, the Asauchi, bonded with Kenpachi and was heard by him AFTER the fight, not during. As seen with Ichigo and Urahara, this amplifies a Shinigami's power. You are factually mistaken.
>wall of text
None of this is remotely true. Kenpachi one-shotted Unohana when he got to a stage where his Zanpakuto recognized his willingness to hear it out, THEN he bonded with it. After having one-shot Unohana. Being part of the original Gotei 13 has nothing to do with this whatsoever.
Further, none of this engages the point that Gremmy does not have 6-A durability in base, thus Kenpachi does not scale to it except for in Shikai when he performs a 6-A feat.
The point remains, as originally stated, null and moot.
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@xurlev
Gremmy was injured precisely once before cloning himself. He was harming Kenpachi pretty well and decided to eradicate all of Soul Society out of anger for Kenpachi not justifying his own beliefs. You are incorrect.
Injured precisely once before cloning? What?eradicate soul society out of anger?like really what?..... I told you to read the fights didn't I..this a CRT,dont come in here spouting headcanon,only make comments when you are sure or with proof,dont throw around headcanons and call people incorrect.
There was once..he was brought to his knees
Then he was injured again
And then He wasn't just been injured,he was almost turned to minced meat...not to RISK DYING,he doubled his power to match Kenpachi or supposedly stomp him as thanks for Pressuring him, isnt that what you call being pressured,i really don't know where you got the idea of "injured once" and "eradicate soul society out of anger " there is nothing incorrect about my statements and everything is wrong with yours
You do not know how a Zanpakuto works. Nozarashi, the Asauchi, bonded with Kenpachi and was heard by him AFTER the fight, not during. As seen with Ichigo and Urahara, this amplifies a Shinigami's power. You are factually mistaken.
I really doubt you know how bleach works,The result of the fight was him and Nozarashi being bonded and his psycho limiters being removed,however the bonding and awakening(note the "ing") occurred during the fight not after(as seen with ichigo Vs urahara)i posted the scan in my previous comment,unohana noted that Nozarashi has awakened and Get this...Kenpachi only heard Nozarashi after Unohana died but Unohana already knew prior that he was awakened..which means said awakening was a gradual process of the fight and Kenpachi being able to hear Nozarashi was the result therefore enabling him to achieve even greater power via SHIKAI(again just like Ichigo..I hope you know ichigo powers against Urahara was shikai)
None of this is remotely true. Kenpachi one-shotted Unohana when he got to a stage where his Zanpakuto recognized his willingness to hear it out, THEN he bonded with it. After having one-shot Unohana. Being part of the original Gotei 13 has nothing to do with this whatsoever
Stop bringing in your own version of the truth...there was no one-shot in any instant,they battled for days literally so kenpachi could gradually reach and surpass her level..If anything Unohana did the one-shotting while constantly healing him up with her own energy over and over.. it took days for Kenpachi to reach her level
And she being part of the first Gotei 13 that ywach acknowledged along with prime yama-ji is canon statement and serve as supporting canon to the current argument, unlike the hadcanons and personal opinion you keep spouting.
Further, none of this engages the point that Gremmy does not have 6-A durability in base, thus Kenpachi does not scale to it except for in Shikai when he performs a 6-A feat
Well the calc about base Gremmy being 6-A am not too sure but
The point remains, as originally stated, null and moot.
The point remains,you really need to read the fights to get your fact straight..i did...most your point are null for being headcanon and personal opinion,which is fine in regular discussions but this is a CRT.
Gremmy was injured precisely once before cloning himself. He was harming Kenpachi pretty well and decided to eradicate all of Soul Society out of anger for Kenpachi not justifying his own beliefs. You are incorrect.
Injured precisely once before cloning? What?eradicate soul society out of anger?like really what?..... I told you to read the fights didn't I..this a CRT,dont come in here spouting headcanon,only make comments when you are sure or with proof,dont throw around headcanons and call people incorrect.
There was once..he was brought to his knees
Then he was injured again
And then He wasn't just been injured,he was almost turned to minced meat...not to RISK DYING,he doubled his power to match Kenpachi or supposedly stomp him as thanks for Pressuring him, isnt that what you call being pressured,i really don't know where you got the idea of "injured once" and "eradicate soul society out of anger " there is nothing incorrect about my statements and everything is wrong with yours
You do not know how a Zanpakuto works. Nozarashi, the Asauchi, bonded with Kenpachi and was heard by him AFTER the fight, not during. As seen with Ichigo and Urahara, this amplifies a Shinigami's power. You are factually mistaken.
I really doubt you know how bleach works,The result of the fight was him and Nozarashi being bonded and his psycho limiters being removed,however the bonding and awakening(note the "ing") occurred during the fight not after(as seen with ichigo Vs urahara)i posted the scan in my previous comment,unohana noted that Nozarashi has awakened and Get this...Kenpachi only heard Nozarashi after Unohana died but Unohana already knew prior that he was awakened..which means said awakening was a gradual process of the fight and Kenpachi being able to hear Nozarashi was the result therefore enabling him to achieve even greater power via SHIKAI(again just like Ichigo..I hope you know ichigo powers against Urahara was shikai)
None of this is remotely true. Kenpachi one-shotted Unohana when he got to a stage where his Zanpakuto recognized his willingness to hear it out, THEN he bonded with it. After having one-shot Unohana. Being part of the original Gotei 13 has nothing to do with this whatsoever
Stop bringing in your own version of the truth...there was no one-shot in any instant,they battled for days literally so kenpachi could gradually reach and surpass her level..If anything Unohana did the one-shotting while constantly healing him up with her own energy over and over.. it took days for Kenpachi to reach her level
And she being part of the first Gotei 13 that ywach acknowledged along with prime yama-ji is canon statement and serve as supporting canon to the current argument, unlike the hadcanons and personal opinion you keep spouting.
Further, none of this engages the point that Gremmy does not have 6-A durability in base, thus Kenpachi does not scale to it except for in Shikai when he performs a 6-A feat
Well the calc about base Gremmy being 6-A am not too sure but
- Gremmy meteor is undoubtedly 6-A
- Gremmy clones technically serve as batteries that power his abilities
- Gremmy as canonically stated "DOUBLED his current power " to make the big ass meteor
- Half of said meteor should LOGICALLY be one Gremmy
- if the calc of half the meteor is still 6-A,then 6-A is base Gremmy powers that couldn't put kenpachi down and Kenpachi could easily match blow for blow
The point remains, as originally stated, null and moot.
The point remains,you really need to read the fights to get your fact straight..i did...most your point are null for being headcanon and personal opinion,which is fine in regular discussions but this is a CRT.
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Obviously with personal insults flying here this is going to go nowhere, discussion-wise, with yourself. Perhaps SoldierBlue need step in since he's aware of the factual presence of Shinigami gaining more power from bonding with their Asauchi, and the ridiculousness of Gremmy being 6-A based on circular reasoning.
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Am sorry if being factually debunked is being chucked up as personal insult in your personal opinion.i really am sorry...but I only motivated to read the source material and post actual facts so people won't be mislead..
Shinigami do gain more power from bonding with their Asauchi and that power is shikai..also in some cases they also need to increase in base power before the zanpakutou acknowledge them
Ichigo Vs urahara
Ichigo Vs kenpachi
Renji vs ichigo
Zangetsu vs ichigo
A regular shinigami Vs anyone
As for Gremmy is not based on circular reasoning but canon statement and logic as scans shows
I do agree with solider blue or other knowledgeable members settling This though,the scans and arguments are meant for them at least they have understanding of the fights
Shinigami do gain more power from bonding with their Asauchi and that power is shikai..also in some cases they also need to increase in base power before the zanpakutou acknowledge them
Ichigo Vs urahara
Ichigo Vs kenpachi
Renji vs ichigo
Zangetsu vs ichigo
A regular shinigami Vs anyone
As for Gremmy is not based on circular reasoning but canon statement and logic as scans shows
I do agree with solider blue or other knowledgeable members settling This though,the scans and arguments are meant for them at least they have understanding of the fights
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Makes sense but wasn't that a Prime Unohana ?
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We don't actually know if she got worse. When fighting Kenpachi, she said he is at the level he was as a kid and proceeded to lose just like she was going to back then. If anything, I'd say she had gotten stronger seeing as she was one shotting, fighting and rezzing a constantly stronger him for days before she lost. If she can still fight base TYBW Ken (while tired out) to the same extent as Yachiru however long ago, I think its safe to say she is better. Plus she can also heal herself during fights now.
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>As for Gremmy is not based on circular reasoning but canon statement and logic as scans shows
Nobody here has provided scans for Gremmy having 6-A durability excepting for scaling him to Kenpachi who only has 6-A attack potency via the presumption Gremmy has 6-A durability.
That is circular reasoning, zzsax.
Further, the constant implications that my facts and statements from the fiction are headcanon simply because you do not agree with them is infact insulting on multiple levels, especially in any sort of debate setting.
Nobody here has provided scans for Gremmy having 6-A durability excepting for scaling him to Kenpachi who only has 6-A attack potency via the presumption Gremmy has 6-A durability.
That is circular reasoning, zzsax.
Further, the constant implications that my facts and statements from the fiction are headcanon simply because you do not agree with them is infact insulting on multiple levels, especially in any sort of debate setting.
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Hm now that I think about it why is Gremmy 6A in durability
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Glad I am to have opened at least one pair of eyes to the befuddling puzzle of that very question, Astral.
He is 6-A in durability via scaling from Kenpachi being 6-A in attack potency based on Gremmy being 6-A in general. Which is, to say, a circular logic reasoning and Gremmy's only durability feat is making himself, as proven earlier by myself, 'harder than steel'. Which base Kenpachi easily sheared through.
No feats exist to make base Kenpachi equal to the feat he has of busting the meteor in Shikai, which is where this all comes from. The fact it's even being entertained is ludicrous, honestly.
He is 6-A in durability via scaling from Kenpachi being 6-A in attack potency based on Gremmy being 6-A in general. Which is, to say, a circular logic reasoning and Gremmy's only durability feat is making himself, as proven earlier by myself, 'harder than steel'. Which base Kenpachi easily sheared through.
No feats exist to make base Kenpachi equal to the feat he has of busting the meteor in Shikai, which is where this all comes from. The fact it's even being entertained is ludicrous, honestly.
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I'll get back to this in a minute
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I think it's because, he is the "strongest Quincy.", has a high 6-A feat, so his durability is scaled to his AP. Kenpachi got a boost after the retsu fight, so it doesn't contradict anything that he was able to harm him. Kenpachi after his training, is likely high 6-A just like how byakuya is high 6-A. He also fought with gerard who is was high 6-A at the time.
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Gremmy's durability should be Varies,his body is literally a figment of his imagination and it's durability relies on what he imagines it as.
Although you could argue he has High 6-A with clones,since he mentioned he will survive the impact of the meteor,but mostly his Durability Varies based on imagination.
Scaling AP to Durability would be okay normally,but Gremmy is an enigma due to how his powers function.
Although you could argue he has High 6-A with clones,since he mentioned he will survive the impact of the meteor,but mostly his Durability Varies based on imagination.
Scaling AP to Durability would be okay normally,but Gremmy is an enigma due to how his powers function.
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Kenpachi was able to fight Gerard without shikai, which means he is high 6-A without it, which makes sense since he never trained after the gremmy fight so you can use the argument of that. He did get stronger after the unohana fight. So gremmy scales to that Kenny. Easy. But varies too. But generally you can put high 6-A and varies
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Does he have any durability feat cause wouldn't it just make more sense for him to imagine himself not harmed from the attack or better yet imagine himself somewhere else
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Kenpachi was not 'able to fight' Gerard without shikai, he literally was getting dumpstered. Kenpachi immediately went shikai and tore off his eyepatch and Byakuya even commented on how Kenpachi did it because Kenny recognized he would lose without doing so. The only damage he inflicted on Gerard was slicing off an arm when Gerard was unaware of his presence and gloating to Byakuya and Hitsugaya.
To scale base Kenpachi to Gerard in this manner is fallacious, provably. Further, Gerard is high 6-A overall in his God form for.....you guessed it....scaling from Shikai Kenpachi Zaraki.
So you cannot use that to scale base Kenpachi to Gerard to Shikai Kenpachi, as you just scaled base Kenny to Shikai Kenny. Circular. Logic.
To scale base Kenpachi to Gerard in this manner is fallacious, provably. Further, Gerard is high 6-A overall in his God form for.....you guessed it....scaling from Shikai Kenpachi Zaraki.
So you cannot use that to scale base Kenpachi to Gerard to Shikai Kenpachi, as you just scaled base Kenny to Shikai Kenny. Circular. Logic.
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Like how he does with infiltration
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So he cut off his arm and toppled him over physically and it doesn't scale?
I guess that makes sense.
I guess that makes sense.
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We don't use circular logic and reasoning
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Dude what are you talking about. Gerard scales above shikai Kenny who has the feat. Shikailess kenny was able to cut off Gerard's arm and flip him over physically. Plus it wouldn't even make sense for kenny to jump from 7-A to high 6-A shikai. It's inconsistent which is why he is high 6-A without it too, scaling to gerard. It makes sense you just are ignoring it. Which scales to gremmy
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He doesn't need durability because his body is an Imaginatio,If he imagines he can't be cut he won't be cut,if he imagine he can't die he won't die hence Varies.
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What does this have to do with durability?AstralKing7 said:
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He cut off his arm while he was unaware of him.
This isn't dragon ball super where you being off guard means you can get hurt by a bullet.
This isn't dragon ball super where you being off guard means you can get hurt by a bullet.
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None of this scales to Gremmy, however, so it's pretty unecessary to keep moving goalposts when we should focus upon solely Gremmy here. The OP itself states that Gerard is scaled to 6-A solely based on the Shikai Kenpachi feat. It is circular unless and only if you presume Shikai Kenpachi=Base Kenpachi.
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What does this have to do with durability?
If he can imagine himself out of the range of the attack it makes the most sense which means that's how he was gonna survive it. That's easy to understand since he has that ability bruh
If he can imagine himself out of the range of the attack it makes the most sense which means that's how he was gonna survive it. That's easy to understand since he has that ability bruh
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>This isn't dragon ball super where you being off guard means you can get hurt by a bullet.
I'm surprised you would state this when it is factually the case that reiatsu, the exertion of one's reishi, is how defense works in the universe of Bleach, so it is infact very similar. It is how Kenpachi Zaraki was unharmed by Ichigo after all, verbatim it was Kenpachi's reiatsu being more overwhelming. If he had been concealing even more reiatsu, Ichigo could have hurt him in that first strike.
I'm surprised you would state this when it is factually the case that reiatsu, the exertion of one's reishi, is how defense works in the universe of Bleach, so it is infact very similar. It is how Kenpachi Zaraki was unharmed by Ichigo after all, verbatim it was Kenpachi's reiatsu being more overwhelming. If he had been concealing even more reiatsu, Ichigo could have hurt him in that first strike.
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gremmy is high 6-A Because he has the feat.. kenpachi is high 6-A for his feat. Gerard is >shikai kenny. I'm not saying kenpachi =shikai kenny, im saying is, both are high 6-A with shikai adding a power boost. But kenpachi doesn't jump from 7-A to high 6-A for going shikai, which is why he is that tier in general. Added to the fact he has feats against high 6-A gerard, as small as it is, it counts
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@Astral
This isn't Durability,that is teleportation,so i'm asking you how does teleportation help determine his durability?
This isn't Durability,that is teleportation,so i'm asking you how does teleportation help determine his durability?
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Your last point has nothing to do with my point lol.
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So Gremmy imagines that he tanks his own meteor so he gets High 6-A Durability
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Oh I totally forgot about that @dangai either wya my scaling makes sense
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Gremmy is not 6-A durability however so it does not scale to Kenpachi in base, again.
How is Gerard 6-A durability when his only feat against base Kenpachi is having an arm lopped off? That would imply his dura in that form is lesser than base Kenpachi's AP, which is NOT 6-A at all. In fact, with Shikai, Kenpachi never actually directly hits Gerard, so he doesn't have the durability feats to back up any of these claims.
Literally everything in this thread is 'It scales from Shikai Kenpachi being able to chop through something, so it must apply to base Kenpachi due to cutting apart a kid who was harder than steel'. Which is....asinine.
How is Gerard 6-A durability when his only feat against base Kenpachi is having an arm lopped off? That would imply his dura in that form is lesser than base Kenpachi's AP, which is NOT 6-A at all. In fact, with Shikai, Kenpachi never actually directly hits Gerard, so he doesn't have the durability feats to back up any of these claims.
Literally everything in this thread is 'It scales from Shikai Kenpachi being able to chop through something, so it must apply to base Kenpachi due to cutting apart a kid who was harder than steel'. Which is....asinine.
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