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Bill Cipher Revision Summary

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Elizhaa

VS Battles
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What has been agreed upon:

Link to past thread: (Extra Source)

  • Technology Manipulation
  • Precognition
  • Pocket Reality Creation and Manipulation & BFR.
  • Text Manipulation
  • Duplication
  • Mind Manipulation and Destruction
    • Restriction might need to be removed as Stanford Pines had a metal plate to protect his mind from Bill and in the Mindscape
  • Data Manipulation
    • Could be upscaled from creating GIFfany from his influence alone on Gravity Falls since he is indirectly responsible from all anomalies there. GIFfany, also based on the definition, should have it as well.
    • Likewise, BiIll used it for Telecommunication Manipulation
  • Enhance Sight via "All-time sense" (Enhance Senses- Under 'Extra Sense')
    • Extra Senses: Some characters have completely new senses not possessed by humans, an example of this in real life is the ability of some animal species to sense magnetic fields. Other extra senses can include the ability to sense things in different dimensions, distortions in time and space, the thoughts of other beings, the future, the past, quantum activity, magical energies, forms of life energy like ki, computer data, etc.
  • Astral Projection
  • Portal Creation
  • Summoning
  • Chaos Manipulation
  • Time Travel
  • Limited Fate Manipulation
    • "Someone asked Bill for a hug (hear me out). Bill responds saying to find him, and sends longitude and latitude that leads to the Bermuda Triangle. So Bill is the Bermuda Triangle (duh...), which makes him responsible for the disasters there. For supporting evidence, Bill says that if one of the askers draws Bill on his hand and shakes hands with himself, Bill can make it certain that the asker gets into an animation program."
  • Life Manipulation
  • Animal Manipulation
    • From the show, I believe that it was stated that Bill used animals to spy on other but he sted that he prefers using insects.
  • Immeasurable speed
  • Large Size via Size Manipulation
  • Resistance to TIme manipulation - (Bill Cipher is implied to have transcended this concept.)
  • Clairvoyance (That can easily be proven since he did this in the Mindscape)
  • Low-godly Regenerationn
    • when he regained his physical form as being hit by a durability-bypassing weapon and having an eye with slow Regenerationn will not restrict his regen from having Low-Godly.
    • Likely surpassed that of Time Baby 's
  • Power Bestowal (Bill Cipher displayed this when doing this to his minions)
  • Madness Inducement also when mentioning Bill Cipher's real name
  • Limited Statistics Amplification via Intelligence Enhancement according to @The real cal's explanation under Statistics Amplification
  • Creation (Can create a clock (which he was possessing in the Mindscape), magical chains and cages)
  • Force-Field Creation
  • Petrification
  • Rage Power
  • Berserk Mode
  • Cloth Manipulation - Cloth Imprisonment
  • Non-Corporeality while in his Mindscape/Dreamscape form (Exists as a disembodied consciousness made out of pure energy) as better clarification
  • Resistance to Mind Manipulation:
    • "One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford insane. Bill lived there for 1 trillion years. Bill called Fiddleford's mind weak despite having the mental protecting metal plate."
  • Causality Manipulation & Physics Manipulation & Law Manipulation
    • Bill claims that he'll rewrite "the rules" once he reaches his goal. "I ASK YOU WHY SHOULD TIME ONLY MOVE FORWARD WHY MUST CAUSE PRECEDE EFFECT WHO VOTED ON THE LAWS OF PHYSICS RULES ARE PERVERSIONS AGAINST ALL WILL THATS WHY IM ABOUT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE SYSTEM BUDDY AND NO ONE IS GOING TO STOP ME"
  • Limited Plot Manipulation - (changed the intro during the events of Weirdmageddon and changed "Created by Alex Hirsch" to "Created by Bill Cipher".)
  • Chaos Manipulation
  • Likely 'Death Inducement-'(Death Manipulation)-(If Stanford & Stanley had not stopped Bill Cipher, he would have killed Dipper and Mabel instantly with a single snap of his fingers)
    • Similar to Thanos's
  • Acausality -
    • Bill exist in a state of Quantum Uncertainty thus likely not bound by cause and effect
    • according to @The real cal explanation under Law Manipulation
  • Type 5 Immortality (Not accepted)
    • could be so as since bill exist in a state of quantum uncertainty which would make Bill unbound by conventional life or death. Likewise, it fit the wiki's definition well. Furthermore, it is widely implied that Bill at his weakest was defeated through some of existence erasure form alongside Stanley Pines's mind.
    • Moreover, type 5 is beyond "conventional" not all form of life and death. Sun Wukong's case would back this.
      • 5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
  • Possible Type 7 Immortality-
    • exist in a state of Quantum Uncertainty
    • Bill's quote heavily implied so as well from the Schrodinger's statement."I EXIST IN A STATE OF QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY! THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I AM, I'M ALSO NOT! IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!"
      • 7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality.
  • Embodiment of Duality (Source)- not sure what power that it would be classified under
  • 4th Wall Awareness/Breaking-More justification for 4th-wall breaking according to @The real cal's explanation under Plot Manipulation
  • The justification for Bill's Nigh-Omniscience which is backed up by @The real cal's explanation under Enhanced Sight, Bill Cipher's Intelligence Enhancement "THE MORE I SEE. THE MORE I KNOW" through the cameos and drawn versions of himself throughout Gravity Falls, knowing about that trillion-year-old prophecy, the fact that Bill Cipher can read your mind (as used to support it), his All-Time Sense which allows him to perceive & have knowledge of infinite timelines/dimensions, and has knowledge of the past, present, and future.
  • Possible Conceptual Perception and Possible Conceptual Creation according to your explanation under Conceptual Manipulation
    • Quote: "Your QUESTION IS FLAWED, JACK! You can't just scoop a noun out of a pile and ask what it's "meaning" is. Meaning is determined by conscious judgment, not inherently built into the universe. What if you asked "what is the meaning of yellow?" or "what is the meaning of butterscotch?" YOU'D GET THROWN OUT OF THE DINNER PARTY BUSTER! These chestnuts are as meaningless as your dusty old "meaning of life" foofarah. You can ask life's purpose, definition, function, even it's taste- but you can't ask for it's "meaning"
    • BY THE WAY LIFE TASTES LIKE URACIL CYTOCINE AND THYMINE!! ITS DISGUSTING!!"
    • (Created the 7 Deadly Sins,and then destroyed them) {Updated from last thread}
  • Probability Manipulation ('Not accepted')
    • In Mabelland, even skipping rocks is done perfectly.
    • it falls under law manipulations page, it literally has reality warping and probability manipulation as possible subcategories of it.
  • Mathematics Form (Mathematics Manipulation)
    • by technicalities, Bill is made up by mathematical probability from existing in a state of quantum uncertainty based on the amount of info found about him since he is implied to contain numbers inside his body & geometrically-shaped as well mathematics Form
 
Oh good...a new thread has been made, so I can leave this list here for @The real cal or the other mods for Gravity Falls to apply the changes for Bill Cipher in the meantime. Also, its late for me, so I will discuss about this in a later time.

  • Precognition (Foresaw the future and predicted exactly what Dipper was about to do in the next few seconds just before he wakes up)
  • Pocket Reality Creation and Manipulation & BFR.
  • Duplication
  • Mind Manipulation and Destruction
  • Astral Projection
  • Portal Creation
  • Summoning
  • Possible Age Manipulation
  • Chaos Manipulation
  • Time Travel
  • Limited Fate Manipulation
  • All-Time Sense based on the quotation Bill Cipher stated, provided by @The real cal from previous thread.
  • Life Creation and Inducement (to be more specific) according to @The real cal explanation under Life Manipulation from previous thread.
  • More justification you found for Bill's immeasurable speed under @The real cal's section about Speed from previous thread.
  • Power Bestowal + Size Enhancement + Empowerment via Mind Manipulation (Bill Cipher displayed this by performing it to his minions)
  • Clairvoyance (That can easily be proven since he did this in the Mindscape)
  • Empathic Sense according to @The real cal explanation under Empathic Manipulation from previous thread.
  • Zodiac, the Quantum Destabilizer (which is capable of harming him), calling deals off easily enrages him, the Weirdness barrier restricts the range of his Weirdmageddon & Bill Cipher's full power, and hating synthesized music should all be added to his weaknesses for obvious reasons.
  • Possible Insect Manipulation according to @The real cal's explanation under Animal Manipulation from previous
  • Resistance to Madness Inducement (Link this to Madness Manipulation) based on your explanation under "Resistance to Mind Manipulation." Resisting Mind Manipulation involves resisting Mind Control and that's clearly not what @The real cal described to be the case from the previous thread.
  • Disintegratio when mentioning Bill Cipher's real name
  • Limited Statistics Amplification via Intelligence Enhancement according to @The real cal's explanation under Statistics Amplification from previous thread.
  • Change Bill's regen to Low-Godly when he regained his physical form as being hit by a durability-bypassing weapon and having an eye with slow Regenerationn will not restrict his regen from having Low-Godly.
  • Creation (Can create a clock (which he was possessing in the Mindscape), magical chains and cages)
  • Can bestow infinite power and grant wishes when making a deal with him
  • Force-Field Creation (Dipper tried to punch him and you know what happened just after when he attempted this)
  • Rage Power for obvious reasons
  • Berserk Mode for obvious reasons
  • Shadow Stealth (Link to Darkness Manip.) according to @The real cal explanation under Darkness Manipulation from previous thread.
  • To add for Telekinesis, Bill Cipher can use a telekinetic force to choke people as he did to Stanford and Stanley
  • Transmutation (Bill Cipher can transmute people such as Stanford into pure gold; Transformed Gideon, Soos, Robbie, Wendy, Old Man Mcgucket and Pacifica into these tapestries with a snap of his fingers)
  • Non-Corporeality while in his Mindscape/Dreamscape form (Exists as a disembodied consciousness made out of pure energy) as better clarification.
  • Law Inducement based on what you mentioned about Gideon having to dance (a rule made by Bill Cipher to punish him) for all of eternity.
  • Possible Acausality, Causality and Physics Manipulation and via Law Rewrite according to @The real cal explanation under Law Manipulation
  • More justification for 4th-wall breaking according to @The real cal's explanation under Plot Manipulation
  • The justification for Bill's Nigh-Omniscience which is backed up by @The real cal's explanation under Enhanced Sight from previous thread.
    • Bill Cipher's Intelligence Enhancement "THE MORE I SEE. THE MORE I KNOW" through the cameos and drawn versions of himself throughout Gravity Falls
    • Having knowledge about the trillion-year-old prophecy
    • The fact that Bill Cipher can read your mind (as used to support it).
    • His All-Time Sense which allows him to perceive & have knowledge of infinite timelines/dimensions to view the infinite versions of him which all gave infinite variation of answers.
    • Shown to have knowledge of the past, present, and future.
Important things to know:

  • Retrocog = Opposite of Precog
  • Xeno- = "other; different in origin"
  • Psychic = "Mind"
This shouldn't be too hard to understand it, Xenopsychic Reality Warping = Bending reality using the thoughts/imaginations from the minds of other people/beings. So "Xenopsychic" should be linked to Mind Manip. and linking "Reality Warping" to youknowwhat page.

  • Telecommunication Manip. relates specificially to Media and I suggest that it should be linked under Information Manip.
(Continued):

  • Retrocognitio (Bill has shown Dipper's past experiences to Dipper about his situation with him and his sister Mabel)
  • Nightmare Inducement + Xenopyschic Reality Warping within Mabelland
  • Telecommunication Manipulation according to @The real cal's explanation under Data Manipulation from previous thread.
  • Weirdness and Chaos Inducement via Weirdmageddon (Only link Chaos Inducement to Chaos Manipulation, Weirdness does not have to be linked since its highly suggested that it should be described in the notable attacks section alongside Weirdmageddon)
  • Bill Cipher embodying a mathematical form since, by technicalities, he is made up by mathematical probability based on the amount of info. found about him, so it should be mentioned as "Embodies a mathematical form" and be linked under Mathmatics Manipulation.
  • Conceptual Perception and Possible Conceptual Creation according to @The real cal explanation under Conceptual Manipulation from previous thread.
  • Limited Energy Creation and Manipulation (Creates & manipulates a form of energy made out of pure weirdness and spreads a wave of it throughout the town of Gravity Falls; Created energy-based bubbles of pure madness)
  • Likely Death Inducement (If Stanford & Stanley had not stopped Bill Cipher, he would have killed Dipper and Mabel instantly with a single snap of his fingers just as what he did to one of his creations in front of Dipper in his dreams)
  • More justification to add to his age is that he's older than Time itself
  • Bill Cipher's Laser Manipulation should separated into 2 different abilities here:
    • Heat Vision (Used his eyes to fire a laser directly at a statue, which melted it due to its immense heat)
    • Disintegratio with Lasers (He vaporized Time Baby and reduced him to molecules)
  • Embodiment of duality (Everything he is, he isn't)
  • Quantum Uncertainty (Being simultaneously both dead and alive) should be linked under Quantum Manipulation.
  • Type 7 Immortality (Due to being half dead)
  • Resistance to Soul Manipulation and Necromancy (Exists as a state of Quantum Uncertainty (being simultaneously dead & alive), as being dead makes one resistant to the effects of Soul Manipulation from most Soul Manipulators who are unable to use their ability on dead entities whereas as being alive makes one resistant to the effects of Necromancy casted by necromancers due to most of them being unable to use their magic on living beings).
  • Remove Intangability for True form/Physical Bill Cipher as he never displayed Intangibility throughout Weirdmageddon Part 1, 2, and 3 whatsoever.
  • Petrification (Turned one of the deputies in Gravity Falls into stone)
  • Further justification of Bill Cipher having high resistance to Time Manipulation as he mentioned that us humans are still bounded to Time itself, which heavily implies that Bill Cipher transcended and is boundless to this concept.
 
Well, i guess it's nearly time to add this.

After this, Bill's finally gonna be up there with some powerhouses.
 
@Christian Higdon, Bill's gonna get that right!!!
 
This is a fair assessment of many powers that are oft left out when discussing him. These changes will bring a quality of life update to his character.
 
I'm a little iffy about the data manipulation bit, as it's kinda vague. Enhanced Sight does not seem like the right term to use. Appearing in Blendin's dreams is kind of vague and it's not clear if it's time travel. I disagree with the bit about large size, as he's also potrayed smaller, and his size is likely due to his ability to change size. If he's transcended the concept of time, wouldn't that make him immune to time manip? If not, resistance is fine. I disagree with Madness Inducement, as it just kills whoever hears. I also disagree with death manip, as it could refer to a multitude of his powers. Tasting life does not have anything to do with conceptual manipulation. Probability Manip is quite frankly, bullshit. Shouldn't have to explain why. But other than that, I agree with all of this.
 
@Noahjaismith Madness inducement's explanation was meant as a additional information for Bill's ability.
 
@Noahkaismith Data Manipulation should be from creating GIFfany from his influence alone on Gravity Falls since he is indirectly responsible from all anomalies there. GIFfany, also based on the definition, should have it as well.
 
@Noahkaismith Death Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, and Probability Manipulation- (could be other) have been further clarified with agreed reasonings and could be discussed furthermore. Likewise, I agreed with your conclusion.
 
Oh wow, a gravity falls thread, nice.

Looks fine at first glance, I might fact check some more later on but so far it seems reasonable.
 
I'm back and here's what I gotta say (I'm answering the OP first and then everyone else who has a say about this):

  • For Bill Cipher's "Technology and Data manip.," the only thing that is stated for both was a form of communication through media called Telecommunication Manip. which that feat would be found under and Telecommuncation Manip. is found under Information Manipulation btw.
  • Bill Cipher can't dive into any mind he wants to directly without making deals,so that restriction (that should have been added to Bill Cipher's weaknesses if its not added already).
  • I almost forgot to add All-Seeing (the highest form of Enhanced Sight) on Bill Cipher's list of abilities which should be linked to Enhanced Senses, so thanks for the reminder.
  • Limited Fate Manip. should be removed.
  • Life Manip. should be changed to Life Creation and Inducement
  • Animal Manip. is changed to "Possible Insect Manipulation"
  • Unrestricted Bill Cipher already has immeasurable speed, you meant to say further justification for it.
  • Large Size doesn't apply to beings who can manipulate their size, so that is getting removed off the list.
  • High Resistance* to Time Manipulation and I'm wondering to know why Bill Cipher has resistance to Space Manipulation without nothing backing it up, that should get removed as soon as possible.
  • Of course Bill Cipher surpassed Time Baby's regen after regaining his physical body since he can regenerate from his disembodied consciousness > regenerate from being disintregated to molecules.
  • I should add that Power Bestowl onto the list for that case.
  • Bill Cipher already has Madness Inducement for creating madness bubbles and mentioning his name won't really make you insane rather than instantly disintegrate you into dust, so madness inducement is only getting removed for the name mentioning part but stays for the madness bubbles part though.
I'm gonna skip some of them since I already explained about them in my list.

  • It was more like Transmutation than Cloth Imprisonment.
  • The Limited Plot Manipulation sounds more justification for Bill Cipher's Fourth Wall Awareness/Breaking + Reality Warping and he should have Animation added for that case.
  • Your reasoning on the "Possible Acausality" was not why I added it to the list as that's for something different.
  • I'll discuss about the Type 5 immortality later and no, I wouldn't use that reasoning to back it up & there is no "possible" for him having Type 7, its fine.
  • Probability, Mathmatics, and Limited Fate Manip. has to go as it sounds very incorrect and the reasoning its not good.
 
I'm still not a huge fan of making the powers as specific as possible, like why can't we just put Animal Manipulation, Life Manipulation or Information Manipulation?
 
@Magi Hussie

  • Your reasoning for acausality have been added and the reasoning to have been updated
  • Limited Fate Manipulation was agreed by you too and further reasonings were added.
  • Probability was agreed upon on the last thread so it was added. It can still be discussed nevertheless. Also, I will add the reasonings that were stated
  • Mathematics manipulation, I agreed with you, it will be fixed to mathematical form (while I am not sure would it fall under) as it was agreed upon.
  • Type 5 Immortality , I believe it could be so as since bill exist in a state of quantum uncertainty which would make Bill unbound by conventional life or death.
    • Likewise, it fit the wiki's definition well. Furthermore, it is widely implied that Bill at his weakest was defeated through some of existence erasure form alongside Stanley Pines's mind.
    • 5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.
  • Type 7 Immortality, could be supported by the wiki's as though technically it would be right.
    • Also, Bill's quote heavily implied so as well from the Schrodinger's statement.
    • "I EXIST IN A STATE OF QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY! THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I AM, I'M ALSO NOT! IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!"
    • 7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality.
  • Bill already have transmutation as he shown, cloth imprisonment through transmutation would still fall also under cloth manipulation. And, why not add the ability if the page already exists.
  • Data Manipulation's reasoning has been expanded above.
  • Insect Manipulation should under animal manipulation too like @Edwardthuong2006 stated
    • From the show, I believe that it was stated that Bill used animals to spy on other but he sted that he prefers using insects.
  • Life Creation and Inducement is under Life Manipulation, also in Bill demonstrated in these video in 0:52 -:56 seconds, and 0:51-1:05 seconds
 
@Nedge1000

  • "Your reasoning for acausality have been added and the reasoning to have been updated"
Quantum Uncertainty is irrelevant to Acausality, so remove only that, thx.

  • "Limited Fate Manipulation was agreed by you too and further reasonings were added."
Nvm what I mentioned about that, I almost thought I opposed it in last thread but I realized that I agreed with it being added.

  • "Probability was agreed upon on the last thread so it was added. It can still be discussed nevertheless. Also, I will add the reasonings that were stated"
No, multiple people denied it from the previous thread and from this thread as well.

  • "Mathematics manipulation, I agreed with you, it will be fixed to mathematical form (while I am not sure would it fall under) as it was agreed upon."
"Mathematical form" will be linked under Mathmatics Manip.

  • "Type 5 Immortality , I believe it could be so as since bill exist in a state of quantum uncertainty which would make Bill unbound by conventional life or death.
Likewise, it fit the wiki's definition well. Furthermore, it is widely implied that Bill at his weakest was defeated through some of existence erasure form alongside Stanley Pines's mind.

5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them."

That would be false since being both dead and alive does not make you boundless to both concepts as you're still considered bound to it regardless.

Also, that's Circular Reasoning to assume that logic.

  • "Type 7 Immortality, could be supported by the wiki's as though technically it would be right.
Also, Bill's quote heavily implied so as well from the Schrodinger's statement. "I EXIST IN A STATE OF QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY! THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I AM, I'M ALSO NOT! IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!" 7: Undead: Characters who cannot die due to technically being already dead, often overlapping with other forms of immortality."

Yea.

  • "Bill already have transmutation as he shown, cloth imprisonment through transmutation would still fall also under cloth manipulation. And, why not add the ability if the page already exists."
Cloth Imprisonment works differently and what Bill Cipher displayed was nothing more but Transmutation.

  • "Data Manipulation's reasoning has been expanded above."
Bill Cipher should not get Data Manipulation for that as it was Telecommunication Manip. based on the feat he did.

  • "Insect Manipulation should under animal manipulation too like @Edwardthuong2006 stated
From the show, I believe that it was stated that Bill used animals to spy on other but he sted that he prefers using insects."

Actually, these were imaginary animals in which Bill Cipher has control over, so Mind Control works the best in this case.

  • "Life Creation and Inducement is under Life Manipulation, also in Bill demonstrated in these video in 0:52 -:56 seconds, and 0:51-1:05 seconds"
Well yea, that's why Life Creation and Inducement would be linked under Life Manip.
 
I don't like how most of these powers are listed as super specific sub-categories that are completely redundant

What with "Law Rewrite / Inducement" or "All-Time Sense" or "Insect Manipulation"

"Disintegration through Lasers" isn't even a power...
 
Based @Magi Hussie, and others' resolutions to what weren't initially agree

Type 5 Immortally is could still applicable with, can still be subject to further discussion.

Type 7 Immortality is agreed

Probability Manipulation is completely disagree

Animal Manipulation might be changed to Mind Control based on @Magi Hussie's reasoning

Mathematics Manipulation is agreed

Limited Fate Manipulation is agreed

Life Manipulation is agreed

Probability Manipulation is likely not applicable
 
Magi Hussie said:
@Nedge1000

Likewise, it fit the wiki's definition well. Furthermore, it is widely implied that Bill at his weakest was defeated through some of existence erasure form alongside Stanley Pines's mind.

5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them."

That would be false since being both dead and alive does not make you boundless to both concepts as you're still considered bound to it regardless.
So wait, you agree that being a Quantum Uncertainty makes you type 5? But disagree with type 5 for being alive&dead at once? So then what part of QU gives him type 5?
 
WWhy are we still bringing up a lot of abilities that were rejected in the last thread?
 
@Lightbuster30, Based on the wiki's definition of type 5 immortality and Bill's existence in quantum uncertainty which scientifically speaking would make him beyond "conventional" of life and death.
 
@DMB 1 , all these abilities were somewhat agreed on the previous thread, you could verify it. The only clear mistake on my part was adding probality manipulation.
 
So, will this thread results' be accepted since everyone, overall, agree?
 
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