Bill Cipher revisions

So, after I finally woke up to the...beliefs perpetuated about Bill Cipher, I decided to check his profile to see how many things were wrong about his profile. And there were quite a few. To make a thesis, he's missing a massive amount of powers,, and I mean a lot, and a few of his stats are off. No, not his AP, as he's not tier 1. Well, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

For starters, I'm not sure everyone knows this, but Bill had an AMA on Reddit where he answered questions. This falls under the Galacta category more than Godzilla. For one, it's not Alex Hirsch doing the questions. It's Bill. And he's answering how Bill would. Like a nihilistic, sadistic cosmic entity who types and thinks in all caps. Everything Bill does is in all caps, books or otherwise, btw. Finally, this is where he first says his knowledge of Time Baby's existence, how much he hates him, and that he wants to disassemble Time Baby's molecules, which is what he does. And before you say that Bill just vaporized him, both, the cryptogram in the credits of that episode, and Blendin Blanden in one of the books confirms that's what he did. Bill says that he has friends with many faces, and in Weirdmageddon, one of Bill's friends has 87 different faces (88 DIFFERENT FACES!!!). It also foreshadows Bill getting his physical form.

Powers and abilities

• Technology Manipulation

He's the one who leaves the cryptograms in the Rumble's Revenge game. Given that said game is the first mention of Bill's name (taking every capitalized letter in the cryptogram makes "I AM BILL CIPHER"), it's safe to say it's canon, at least to him.

• Pain Resistance

Finds pain hilarious.

• Precognition

How on earth does he not already have this? Part of his intelligence section right now is a showing of it. In his AMA, he says that he knows the future, and the worst future he's ever seen is "your" future ("your" being the person asking the question), and he says "YIKES!" to it. When finishing his talk with Dipper, he does an impression of him in exactly 3 seconds, which takes three seconds. Dipper then wakes up doing that exact same thing. He offers to tell Soos the exact time an date of his death. He claims that the mayor is "NOT LONG FOR THIS WORLD". The mayor dies around the time of episode The Stanchurian Candidate. He knows that Grenda will marry rich.

He also says...this tidbit when he's asked again if he can see the future.

"I CAN SEE A KALEIDOSCOPE OF TEMPORAL PROBABILITY WITH FLUCTUATING RANGE! I CAN ALSO SEE THAT THERE ARE INFINITE ALTERNATE VERSIONS OF ME IN INFINITE ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION WITH INFINITE VARIATION! ONE OF THEM ANSWERED BY VOMITING A STREAM OF BLOOD AND PRIME NUMBERS OUT OF HIS THIRD MOUTH!"

I pray to god this doesn't mean Bill is like Lavos...

• Text Manipulation

Claimed to have drawn himself in textbooks, and wrote bits and pieces of books written by Dipper and Mabel.

• Math Manipulation

As afformentioned in the quote above, one of the infinite variations vomited prime numbers out of his mouth.

• Blood Manipulation

Yeah...same

• Life Manipulation

With his weirdness wave, he brought a whole bunch of inanimate objects to life, like a chair, a grill, a totem pole, etc. He answered a question on his AMA asking if the asker would like to become his pet disembodied head, indicating that he can keep his or her head alive as his pet (as opposed to like, a trophy) if he wanted to. He also materializes an eternally screaming head for Dipper, which is quite clearly alive when it shouldn't be. Even when all the flesh is stripped off of it.

• Pocket Reality Manipulation

Mabelland. Duh. How does he not have this either?

• Mind Manipulation

Bill being able to only do this with deals is outright false. Dipper said that Bill almost destroyed Grunkle Stan's mind (he's talking about the events of Dreamscaperers). In Dreamscaperers, Bill made a deal with Gideo, not Stan. Bill operates in the mindscape and brings people there. Mabelland is made out of Mabel's likes.

• Mind Control

Same as above. Bill says that he's gonna bring back mkultra, which is an incredibly controversial US government sanctioned mind controlling operation from decades ago. When asked to say a joke, he answers with free will being real on his AMA.

• Empathic Manipulation

Knows that chairs have feelings and feel pain when you sit on one.

• Darkness Manipulation

Stalks Dipper as a shadow

• Duplication

Like I said earlier in another thread, Bill uses this when fighting the Shacktron. I'm pretty sure a thread was made on this one specifically before, and I forgot to add it.

• Astral Projection

This is what Bill does after he gains his 3-D form to enter Stanley's body.

• Portal Creation

Does this to get behind Dipper during their conversation.

• Summoning

Summons many things from the Nightmare Realm or Zone or whatever during Weirdmageddon.

• Large Size

Considering his 3-D form is large enough to sit on a throne made of petrified humans...

• Animal Manipulation

The things in Mabelland are secretly made out of bugs.

• Data Manipulation

Plants progressive planning into media about false flag operations as an act of winding down.

• Age Manipulation

States growing up is optional. This could mean...something else, but that's way too dark for a kids book with a Disney connection.

• Chaos Manipulation

Bill has manipulation of the non-Lovecraftian definition of chaos. To elaborate, there's two definitions, and the one Bill has is the contemporary definition (meaning disorder, disharmony, confusion). It's obvious that weirdness is just another word for contemporary chaos.

• Non-Corporeality

I know this is already there, but the reasoning is wrong. Bill is not a disembodied consciousness. He exists in the Nightmare Zone, a realm between dimensions (we'll get more into this later), and he can only operate with humans in the mindscape due to that. But that's still not it. Bill exists as a state of quantum uncertainty. And explains that it means that everything that he is, he also isn't. He references Schroedinger's cat next. It's also interesting to note that Ford's weapon to stop Bill was a quantum destabilizer.

• Whatever power making someone dance for eternity is

He did this to Gideon. Idk what this is...

• Sound Manipulation

Can change his voice to that scary version at any time

• Time Travel

Even before offing Time Baby. Bill appeared in the dreams of Blendin, which is how he was able to possess him. Blendin is from the future, mind you.

• Resistance to Mind Manipulation

One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford insane. Bill lived there for 1 trillion years. Bill called Fiddleford's mind weak.

• Enhanced Sight

I can't begin to go into how much of an understatement this is. He's capable of seeing the lives of all the Gravity Falls residents, and what they do behind closed doors. Even stuff like an invisible wizard untying Dipper's shoes. And despite the people of Gravity Falls keeping secrets, he claims that the residents are an open book to him. There are things that he knows from out of Gravity Falls, like Stan being a baby model and Dipper and Mabel's father's occupation. He claims to have omnipotent sight. He can see through the eye of any effigy of him. He says that just because you can't see him, he can't see you. There's more, but I'm getting tired...

• Word Manipulation

The mere utterance of his true name would evaporate one with an expression of horror and extasy on their face.

• Statistics Amplification

The more he knows, the stronger he gets. Bill gets stronger every minute he's in the 3-D world.

• Low Godly Regenerationn

Okay, now we're real stuff. The eye thing is total PIS. Firstly, Bill casually removes his exoskeleton to feed. Second, go back to the non-corporeality thing I had above. Bill is just as much existent as he is nonexistent. Bill also says that he's a being made out of pure energy, in the show at that, so even the part that is existent, isn't truly corporeal. And then go to the fact that he can't contact anyone in the real world, and he compares being in the mindscape to being like a ghost. All of that, and then Bill creates a 3-D body in almost an instant. It's apparent that Bill can fashion his body instantaneously.

• Nonexistent Physiology

The schroedinger stuff from above. Does that qualify as that? Idk.

• Probability Manipulation

In Mabelland, even skipping rocks is done perfectly.

• Fate Manipulation

Someone asked Bill for a hug (hear me out). Bill responds saying to find him, and sends longitude and latitude that leads to the Bermuda Triangle. So Bill is the Bermuda Triangle (duh...), which makes him responsible for the disasters there. For supporting evidence, Bill says that if one of the askers draws Bill on his hand and shakes hands with himself, Bill can make it certain that the asker gets into an animation program.

• Conceptual Manipulation

Bill has literally tasted life. In Bill's words, "LIFE TASTES LIKE URACIL CYTOCINE AND THYMINE!! ITS DISGUSTING!!" He also refers to the seven deadly sins as his babies, implying that he created them.

• Law Manipulation

Bill claims that he'll rewrite "the rules" once he reaches his goal. "I ASK YOU WHY SHOULD TIME ONLY MOVE FORWARD WHY MUST CAUSE PRECEDE EFFECT WHO VOTED ON THE LAWS OF PHYSICS RULES ARE PERVERSIONS AGAINST ALL WILL THATS WHY IM ABOUT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE SYSTEM BUDDY AND NO ONE IS GOING TO STOP ME"

• Causality Manipulation

Same as above

• Physics Manipulation

Once again, same as above

• Plot Manipulation

Alright, a handful of things. One, Bill says that he made a deal with Alex Hirsch, the creator of the show, in exchange for dreams that look like some song that he linked. Second, Alex posts on Twitter that he's having an argument with his boss, where there's a picture of a shadow of Alex talking to a shadow of Bill. Thirdly, someone asks Bill if the show is going to have two seasons or more. Bill posts a link of the theme song to Eerie Indiana. Now normally, that would mean nothing. But if you do some research on said show, it's about two young kids trying to solve mysteries about their town. It had two seasons. Guess how many seasons Gravity Falls had? Keep in mind that every other spoiler question was met with a picture of an axolotl (who will be my next topic)

Speed
So, I finally got a distinct value for Bill's speed. And it should be Infinite. It's all due to the place Bill spent his time in, the Nightmare Realm. It exists as a realm between dimensions. It's stated to lack constant physics. And it has a similar existence to a rift in dimensional space-time. And if that wasn't enough, Bill implies that one of the reasons he looks down on humans is because they're bound by time. "HUMANS ARE FAT WET BAGS OF MEAT WITHERING UNDER THE OPPRESSIVE TYRANNY OF TIME AND PUPPETEERED BY THE ARBITRARY WHIMS OF NATURAL SELECTION! I ENJOY PUTTING ON HUMAN SKIN THE WAY JACK THE RIPPER ENJOYED WEARING CLOWN MASKS! HE ASKED ME NOT TO TELL ANYONE ABOUT THAT BUT WHAT HAS HE DONE FOR ME LATELY?"

Intelligence
He's probably nigh-omniscient, given said "omnipotent sight", but I can't really prove this...

Weaknesses
As I said above, that Regenerationn weakness is likely PIS

Looks like Bill's losing streak is coming to an end.

Powers

• Technology Manipulation: Agreed. Also he makes a virtual character real, so there's that.

• Pain Resistance: I guess? Not sure if it's really important.

• Precog: Should have had this, a long time ago.

• Text Manipulation: Seems fine.

• Math Manipulation: Also fine, I guess. Though it's a bit vague.

• Blood Manipulation: I don't think vomiting blood counts as blood manipulation, as unlike prime numbers, blood is usually a physical object.

• Life Manipulation: Another very obvious power of his.

• Pocket Reality Manipulation: Also extremely obvious, as well as viable BFR.

• Mind Manipulation: Kinda a core part of his character, so agreed.

• Empathic Manipulation: I don't think being aware of an inanimate object's feelings is "manipulation".

• Darkness Manipulation: Sure.

• Duplication: Clearly demonstrated, so obviously agreed.

• Astral Projection: Also obvious.

• Portal Creation: Yes.

• Summoning: Yes, again.

• Large Size: Maybe? I kinda feel like Size Manipulation already makes this irrelevant.

• Animal Manipulation: Sure, I guess.

• Data Manipulation: This is fine.

• Age Manipulation: I don't think that's what this is.

• Chaos Manipulation: Yeah, this is pretty self-evident.

• Sound Manipulation: I don't think that's enough to qualify.

• Time Travel: Sure, why the hell not?

• Resistance to Mind Manipulation: Good to go.

• Enhanced Sight: Yeah, alright.

• Word Manipulation: I don't know if that's what that is or if we even have a page for that.

• Statistics Amplification: I suppose so.

• Low-Godly Regen: Don't really have an opinion on this.

• Nonexistent Phisiology: Aso no opinion.

• Probability Manipulation: Maybe? I guess? Not entirely sure.

• Fate Manipulation: Not sure if meant to be serious or Bill just bullshitting, so I don't really have an opinion here, either.

• Conceptual Manipulation: No opinion.

• Law Manipulation/Physics Manipulation: Should probably be one or the other, as both isn't necessary. He's specifically talking about rewriting physics.

• Causality Manipulation: I suppose so, as well.

• Plot Manipulation: No strong opinions, one way or the other.

tl;dr

Disagree with Blood Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Age Manipulation, and Sound Manipulation.

Neutral on Pain Resistance, Large Size (for its lack of necessity), Word Manipulation, Low-Godly Regen, Nonexistent Phisiology, Probability Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, and Plot Manipulation.

Agree with all other powers.

Speed

Pretty sure what you're describing would be "Immeasurable" if he explicitly mentions not being bound by time.

Intelligence

No opinion.

I agree with most of these but I'm iffy about stuff like Conceptual Manipulation and Low-Godly regen, and as azzy said Blood and Empathetic Manipulation aren't actually legit as he's not actually manipulating either of those things.

Another thing to add onto the Plot Manipulation is that Bill also changed the intro during the events of Weirdmageddon and changed "Created by Alex Hirsch" to "Created by Bill Cipher".

Bill Cipher's Come back!

Upgrade dat Dorito!

>Text manipulation is a legit power.

Seems legit

Looks nice actually

Bump. I want to see those upgrades

Bump after 2 minutes?

Gargoyle One said:

Bump after 2 minutes?

Click to expand...

It said 24 minutes.

You still shouldn't bump after 24 minutes.

Technology Manipulation: Agreed.

Pain Resistance: No, resisting pain and enjoying it are two different things, he is simply a ********* that enjoys the pain. Worth noting, but its no resistance.

Precog: Agreed

Text Manipulation: Seems okay, but some of the changes were made while possesing sixers

Math Manipulation: no, vomiting numbers does not go with the definition give by the wiki

Blood Manipulation: vomiting is not manipulation.

Life Manipulation: Agreed

Pocket Reality Manipulation: Eh,our definition tends to imply that it is an actual pocket dimension, not a phisical object, but its okay to be added

Mind Manipulation: Agreed, it should be noted that its also dream manipulation.

Empathic Manipulation: No, he does not manipulate them, the only thing that does is madness induction, but thats a power of its own

Darkness Manipulation: Sure.

Duplication: wasnt it argued that they didnt show any self awerness and were used only to dodge?


Astral Projection: Agreed

Portal Creation: Agreed

Summoning: agreed, again.

Large Size: Reduntant due to size manipulation

Animal Manipulation: acceptable

Data Manipulation: This is fine.

Age Manipulation: Thats only immortality type 1 unless the darker meaning was meant.

Chaos Manipulation: Yeah

Whatever power making someone dance for eternity is: Law manipulation

Sound Manipulation: Feels like a strech

Time Travel: Sure.

Resistance to Mind Manipulation: Its alright, but only really works for lovecraftian mindhax.

Enhanced Sight: alright.

Word Manipulation: that's mind/0madness manipulation.

Statistics Amplification: Yes

Low-Godly Regen: Possibly

Nonexistent Phisiology: I do not believe it qualifies.

Probability Manipulation: No, there is no probability involved, phisics bend so that it happens, its law

Fate Manipulation: That alone isnt really enough.

Conceptual Manipulation: maybe.

Law Manipulation/Physics Manipulation: one makes the other eduntant, I would suggest law just for the fact that it has been already brought up

Plot Manipulation: I dont really feel like this is an option, as he needs outside help for it and it is not passive

And i do not believe him getting hurt in the eye is PIS.

He can heal it just fine, he just needs more time to do it

I'm honestly fine with Low Godly. Of Bill created a physical form with the rift once, what stops him from making Another? The rift made him go from non-physical to physical, if you destroy his body, the rift is liable to just re-make his non-physical form physical like it did at the start of Weirdmaggedon.

I mean, he does not have the rift around by default, especialy if enemies simply erase the universes they are in

Low Godly is kind of redundant because of Incorporeality.

Ricsi-viragosi said:

I mean, he does not have the rift around by default, especialy if enemies simply erase the universes they are in

Click to expand...

It's required for him to even have his physical form though. If the rift is gone, then Bill is stuck as he was pre-Weirdmaggedon.

DMB 1 said:

Low Godly is kind of redundant because of Incorporeality.

Click to expand...

Until he gets hit by people who can interact woth Non-Corporeals.

I kinda disagree with intelligence. There are many times he didn't know things like Ford's equations, GF's barrier, time baby's arrival, people's conditions in his chair, Kid's whereabouts, and everytime they damage his eye. More like Cosmic Awareness than anything else.

Lightbuster30 said:

DMB 1 said:

Low Godly is kind of redundant because of Incorporeality.

Click to expand...

Until he gets hit by people who can interact woth Non-Corporeals.

Click to expand...

Pretty sure that if you can kill something like a ghost, you can bypass Low-Godly.

@Reinhard. I completely forgot cosmic awareness was a thing. You're right about that.

Lightbuster30 said:

<div class="quote" It's required for him to even have his physical form though. If the rift is gone, then Bill is stuck as he was pre-Weirdmaggedon.

Click to expand...

Where was that ever said? The rift makes him stronger, but no one said that he becomes weaker whitout it

I fully agree with everything here.

We already agree on some of this stuff in other thread, but eh.

Being very positive about the Low-Godly regen.

I disagree with Age Manipulation (Way too vague), Conceptual Manipulation (Also way too vague), Fate Manipulation (Shock of all shocks, too vague), Plot Manipulation (It... doesn't seem to be that?)

"ill exists as a state of quantum uncertainty. And explains that it means that everything that he is, he also isn't. He references Schroedinger's cat next."

When was this...? And it's not Nonexistent Physiology, either.

Half the reasonings for Low-Godly aren't legit, the other half are.

Pretty sure the Mind Manipulation Resistance thing is just a matter of willpower. Pretty sure being the key part.

I also agree with the rest of the things Azzy disagreed with (Man, that sounds weird to say, lol).

The "Nonexistent" part doesn't really qualify for Nonexistent Physiology to me. It has more to do with stuff like space-time and dimensionality.

At best I see it as some sort of Type 9 Immortality.

I agree with Azzy and Ever. And I also think that Conceptual Manipulation and Nonexistent Physiology are grossly exaggerated.

Steven Pogi Paitao said:

Here the AMA

Click to expand...

@Everlasting

I think that quote came from the Bill Cypher AMA

To be fair, I did question whether or not it was nonexistent physiology, and I didn't know myself. It could be whatever Alucard has.

And Ever, you wanted the quote.

"I EXIST IN A STATE OF QUANTUM UNCERTAINTY! THAT MEANS THAT EVERYTHING I AM, I'M ALSO NOT! IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!"

Wouldn't that give him Acausality?

I'm confused.

Also, @Ever. You mind telling me what reasons for Low Godly regen are and aren't legit so I don't put the wrong ones when I'm editing the profile?

doesn't that "Plot Manipulation" violate the rules of reality-fiction interaction? also, about the age manipulation.... yeah no. Way too vague

"IT ALSO MEANS THAT YOUR CAT IS DEAD! BLAME SCHRODINGER! HE'S A LOUSY PET SITTER!"

This has made this entire morning worth it.

But I think that's just random jargon.

DMB 1 said:

Wouldn't that give him Acausality?

I'm confused.

Click to expand...

I was like, 90% sure Bill was acausal anyway (and certain that Time Baby is), but I'm not sure that counts as it.

I agree with Matt,Azzy and Ever ( totally not jumping on any wagon tho ovo)

if this goes through, what happens to Bill's win/loss record? it would reset, right?

Maybe not all of it.