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Muso Tensei speed?

While I certainly don't think it warrants anything near lightspeed movement, I think it could be considered some type of speed boost.

Also, shouldn't basically everyone in the verse have Afterimage Creation? Basically every character can leave after images of their punches, and advanced fighters can leave after images of their whole body.
 
I have no opinion about the afterimages, but anything other than MHS is out of the question. Blitzing MHS characters is not anywhere near lightspeed.
 
I would say "at least Massively Hypersonic with Muso Tensei" but it would honestly only serve to clutter up his speed rating
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
I would say "at least Massively Hypersonic with Muso Tensei" but it would honestly only serve to clutter up his speed rating
Click to expand...
That is true.

Assaltwaffle said:
I have no opinion about the afterimages, but anything other than MHS is out of the question. Blitzing MHS characters is not anywhere near lightspeed.
Click to expand...
I never said it was the speed of light. It might be an effect.
 
Sorry. Seeing the "light shows up" and implications of much higher than MHS speed I assumed you were pushing for SoL.
 
I think his speed is fine as it is, and his instance between Raoh and Kenshiro might just be an inconsistency, as right after they finished blitzing each other in Muso Tensei, they proceed to fight on even grounds. Toki's soul and even Raoh himself later admitted they were completely even with each other.

The only reason Ken won is because he had witnessed Raoh's fighting style before and strategized a way to beat it.
 
Just as I thought, it's not easy to know how much the speed boost is when the series has always been so ambiguous. There might be a way to connect it to the Buddist view on souls or to quantum superposition/entanglement, but I'm not sure if that goes too much into headcanon.

PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
Also, shouldn't basically everyone in the verse have Afterimage Creation? Basically every character can leave after images of their punches, and advanced fighters can leave after images of their whole body.
Click to expand...
Might as well be up there.
 
I'm not sure about all of that, but Muso Tensei certainly does have a lot of ambiguity to it. So far, all we know that it allows a user to achieve a state of "nothingness," allowing them to become impervious to all attacks (read: intangible) and commune with the souls of the dead, as well as use their techniques.

What's even stranger is in Fist of the Blue Sky, Muso Tensei activates completely on its own, even though it's user, Kasumi Kenshiro, is completely unconscious. It's aura was so intimidating, that Liu Zongwu became terrified of throwing a fist. It was then explained that Muso Tensei and those who use Hokuto arts can throw a fist with a "blank mind."
 
Okay so if I remember correctly it was stated in the manga that Raoh was not at full power when fighting Kenshiro, and therefore he lost the fight. This was all due to him sharing his life force/power to Yuria so she could live on for a few more years. It's been a while since I've read Hokuto No Ken but I believe this was the reason why Raoh lost the fight, and it would have been a different outcome if Raoh was at full power.
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
I think both of these were rejected by the calc group due to them relying on each fist being FTE
Click to expand...
But the FTE is legit i remenber in Kenshiro's fight with Han both could not see each other's fist.
 
Well Raoh and Toki's soul (who was speaking to Raoh via Muso Tensei) admitted that Kenshiro and Raoh were basically even, though Ken himself stated that had his plan failed, he most likely would've been defeated.

@Antonio

You can discuss it with one of the calc group members
 
My point is that Raoh at full power would have probably won vs Kenshiro in their final fight if not for him being nerfed due to Yuria.
 
OIYIG said:
My point is that Raoh at full power would have probably won vs Kenshiro in their final fight if not for him being nerfed due to Yuria.
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Where is the proof/statement that Raoh would had been stronger if he didn't press Yurias pressure point? Please show it to me since I have a statement that says otherwise.
 
Cooltaff12 said:
Where is the proof/statement that Raoh would had been stronger if he didn't press Yurias pressure point? Please show it to me since I have a statement that says otherwise.
Click to expand...
Okay I researched more about this topic, I think this is anime only the manga is different from the anime s1 ending.
 
It's a really weird thing tbh, some sources say Raoh gave his life force to Yuria and lost due to this reason, and some other say otherwise not sure what to say about it.
 
OIYIG said:
It's a really weird thing tbh, some sources say Raoh gave his life force to Yuria and lost due to this reason, and some other say otherwise not sure what to say about it.
Click to expand...
Dunno why people are saying this. Here is the statement that said otherwise.

If they want to state that, then they should also agree on that Toki gave his life energy to Rei to fight Yuda, consider how he did basically the same to keep Rei in life. Which doesn't seem right. >_>
 
^Basically this

I think the confusion comes from the description of one of Raoh's moves, which he stated involves him putting all of his life force into one blow.

Of course, Kenshiro's fist reached Raoh's body before his fist did (impressive considering the size difference between the two), and it floored him. Though, he managed to get back up one last time.
 
Does anybody know around what chapter the fight ends in the manga? If so could you give the chapter number?
 
OIYIG said:
Does anybody know around what chapter the fight ends in the manga? If so could you give the chapter number?
Click to expand...

Kenshiro vs Raoh third and final battle: 131-136
 
According to Yuria it was said that Raoh wanted to be defeated. This is the most I can find about this matter in the manga.
 
She said that's how she views it, but it contradicts Raoh's own inner dialogue and actions.

Raoh admits to himself that he and Kenshiro are completely equal, supported by Toki, who says the fight is over

Raoh, who's already severely injured and on his way to dying decides to prolong his life with pressure points to try and defeat Kenshiro

Determined to die with honor, Raoh uses the last of his energy to go out with a bang

Even before being defeated Raoh was so determined to win that he put all of his life energy into his fist to defeat Kenshiro. Further proof that he was being serious.

It was revealed later that Raoh was determined to become the strongest man in the land so he could eventually lead an army into the Land of Demons to defeat his older brother Kaioh.

So, Raoh was serious when he fought Kenshiro.
 
Well, another thing to support my claim is the fact that the author at one point made hypothetical battles where in which Raoh would be the one to go to the land of Shura, basically he said that Raoh would also win against Kaioh which pretty much confirms that Raoh is ATLEAST on Kenshiros tier if not above. Also about the part with it contradicting Raoh's own inner dialogue well, iirc in Bleach Hogyouku Aizen was also defeated in a similiar way, we learn this after Ichigo fights Aizen that deep inside of him he always wanted to be defeated or something in the lines of that.
 
Raoh is already on the league of Kensiro, but as he is now, he would've never defeated Kaioh on his own.

He considered Souther a threat to his plans, and unlike Toki or Kenshiro, he couldn't figure out the secret to Souther's "armor" that protected him from Hokuto Shinken.

A serious fight between Raoh and Falco would've resulted in the death of both of them. Falco, albeit weakened, was killed by a fodder from the Land of Demons, who are leagues below the likes of Han and Hyoh, who are below Kaioh.

There's also no way for Raoh to overcome Kaioh's energy draining or Anryu Tenra. The only reason Kenshiro got away was because of Shachi's and Akashachi's interference.

Kenshiro needed to lift the seals placed on Hokuto Shinken and go 100% just to defeat Kaioh, so to imply that Raoh, who was even with a Seals On 100% Kenshrio (who is weaker than his Seals Lifted 100% by a lot) is insane, and also messes up scaling.

Also, this is different from Aizen's case, because this is Yuria stating that she thinks Raoh wanted to be defeated, not Raoh himself saying he wanted to be defeated. Raoh fought to the bitter end, even when he knew he was bested.
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
A serious fight between Raoh and Falco would've resulted in the death of both of them. Falco, albeit weakened, was killed by a fodder from the Land of Demons, who are leagues below the likes of Han and Hyoh, who are below Kaioh.
Click to expand...
I would say that when Kenshiro faced Falco, Falco should be close to Raoh level, consider how he sacrificed one of his leg to offer peace to Raoh way back. Kenshiro saw this and gave himself handicap as well IIRC.
 
Well a completely healthy and two legged Falco is probably on Raoh and Kenshiros level, but after losing his legged he should probably be a little less or so.

Still, he weathered a blow from Ken that split the clouds and created massive craters around the area (which was calculated at mountain level), so it's still pretty impressive.
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
Well a completely healthy and two legged Falco is probably on Raoh and Kenshiros level, but after losing his legged he should probably be a little less or so.
Still, he weathered a blow from Ken that split the clouds and created massive craters around the area (which was calculated at mountain level), so it's still pretty impressive.
Click to expand...

It is, I remeber finding this feat and sent it to OBD for calcs a way back.

Can you link me the current calcs? :)
 
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