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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

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Ok we have a minor issue. There's two thicknesses I can get.

One from like, just the overworld, the thickness it is while like playing the game, on the overworld. And the thickness it is when Link descends to the surface in the in-game cutscene. They aren't the same, about a 3x difference eyeballing it, it's gonna be a pain in the ass to get so which one we going with so I don't need to double up.

Third option is just average cloud thickness fyi, but idk if we wanna do that over the two in-game options.
 
For Hebra Peak, do we wanna use map size, average mountain size, or 3D model in game size.

The latter is a pain in the ass because I'd need to like find footage of something to scale the hole off, like, a horse being placed in the center of it (or a barrel) and Link being far away enough to get a view of it alongside the object to scale, which is obviously going to be completely unreasonably difficult. (As in, if anyone has the game, this is where you come in). So kinda hoping we don't go with that, but I guess it depends on what we deem most accurate. Also there might be a Calamity Ganon EQ feat too I'll look into.

Alternatively, just scaling off the map skips that issue, or using an average mountain height also solves that.

Also Demise's feat might actually be decent, could be way above 20km if we wanna say the storm effected the whole of the locale, given how absolute ******* big dick the skybox is, that tiny cube is the whole arena that you fight him in. Everything around it is like maybe 25% of the total map/skybox area.
 
Given that the entire game world, obviously barring stuff like buildings or boulders, is scaled down I personally think using the map or average mountain size would be better than trying to scale it's model in the game. Although I think there's a video that already found the in game sizes for every mountain in the game including Hebra Peak, they used a memory editor or something that measures units in the game via metres. I'll see if I can find it, in case it's decided in game size would be best.
 
Link it, I already have a rough idea on how to get volume, and from there melting low end and vaporization high end (given the surface of the destroyed material is glassed over, a blatant sign of it having been reduced to molten slag at one point).
 
I can work with that, but I'll wait for input on if we wanna use that or something else.

Also, do we take Dueling Peaks being split by Farosh to be legit or...?
 
Well I'll gather the shots and shit for the calcs and then I guess just wait for input on the exact method to go about it.

Might calc BOTW bombs in the meantime, if I had to guess, about 0.05 tons, would be good for absolute fodder to scale off.
 
While I'm waiting for calc method input.
Another potential decent feat that comes to mind is the WW elemental arrows, one arrow can freeze an eruption and another warm up a frozen island.
 
Theglassman12 said:
I’m not sure if we can count freezing feats
Click to expand...
We can towards AP, it just wouldn't scale to the durability of others, if that makes any sense, same with a chunk of heat based feats, or lightning (Lightning can be circumvented and actually go towards durability depending on how and where one is struck by it though).

Edit: Forum really censored that typo huh :confused:

Edit 2: I think I have someone working on Hylia's feat, no promises tho. Fyi the cutscene thickness of the clouds is only 888cm+, in game thickness is about triple that, it's, surprisingly unrealistically tiny.
 
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Cutscene thickness, (actual lowend due to depth, you could probably double this value to get a more accurate result).

5.101e+14 * 8.93333333 = 4.5568933e+15m^3
multiply by 0.001

4.5568933e+12kg

2264705*4.5568933e+12 = 1.0320019e+19 Joules, 2.46654373805 gigatons, High 7-A+.

Using average (low-end) cloud thickness gets.

5.101e+14 * 600m = 306060000000000000m3

x 0.001

306060000000000kg

2264705 x 306060000000000 = 693135612300000000000 joules, 165.66338726099 gigatons.

And using the ingame thickness would probably be 6-C, maybe 6-C+.
Assuming this formula is right, credits to someone else fyi.

So the cloud feat is pretty obviously about Island lv to some degree given even the ******* super giga wtf lowend is almost baseline.


Edit: Another potential feat. The war against Demise apparently stained the surface world obsidian, towns, rivers, plains and entire mountains reduced to a scorched landscape. Would go along with Demise' "I can **** up the whole world lol" statements, along with Ganon's "destroy the world statements".
Edit 2: The height of Skyloft is apparently "the highest limits of the clouds" if that mattered at all, might if we end up doing PE.
 
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Armorchompy said:
War against Demise thing seems overtime
Click to expand...
7 days.
Though I'm gonna go and say that like 99% of the destruction was Demise himself, or Ghirahim and not like, Bokoblins or Gorons turning mountains into a plume of smoke, and he obviously wasn't battering the surface world the whole 7 days straight, given we see him chilling here and there talking shit.

It's not quantifiable, and obviously not High 6-A or multi continent whatever because it wasn't done with one attack, or even a few, but it is a slew of smaller supporting feats if entire mountains and the like got reduced to scorch marks. Would just help support his rating is all.
 
Sweet, so we just need to put that in a blog and get it approved by a calc member and all we have left to discuss is Malladus’ feat.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Sweet, so we just need to put that in a blog and get it approved by a calc member and all we have left to discuss is Malladus’ feat.
Click to expand...
Been looking to see what would be best to go with and honestly, I'd just go with the average cloud thickness.

Taking the cutscene thickness is a bit suspect as in practically every other instance, it's painted to be exceptionally larger, even on the overworld map the funnel to the surface is about 3x larger, then in official artwork and the like it's played off as being exceptionally larger (definitely not just 9 meters thick), and that's without getting into the fact that at such a thickness, the clouds would have to be so hyper dense to be as opac as they are and to even serve the role of a barrier in the first place to hide the Hylians and the islands from the view of the surface as intended, that we'd be working with some super naturally impossibly dense clouds.

I'd just go with average cloud thickness given that's what seems to be implied and pixel scaling in game isn't exactly the best way to go about it given even in game the thickness changes often for the sole purpose of cinematic shots. (For example, the cloud thickness in the overworld, descending to the surface, etc are all different, they take place in different "maps" as well with different models and the like to accompany the scene, Link just gets loaded into different maps depending on the scene).

Of course that's just my opinion, open to input here.

On the other side of things, I've been looking over potential feats.


Divine Beast melts/vaporizes a hole through a mountain peak (Doing this atm, it's a ******* pain in the ass though given the destroyed value isn't exactly easily calculated, but it'd scale to Ganon at his weakest, though for the time being I plugged some minimal numbers, using the in game size at that, and got tier 7, so don't expect anything less than like around 1 megaton).

Demise creates a storm (Probably just go with horizon standard storm which is already calculated, though it might actually be ridiculous if you use the skybox, was looking at how large it could potentially be yesterday, might be quite good ).

Volcano feat by Eldin (Probably 8-B/8-A using in game model, but this is one of those cases where the mountain is blatantly not to scale. **** it's described as a large mountain, and assuming it's Death Mountain we have some issues given how much that thing changes).

Flooding a forest (tbh idk).

Bombs (just some 9-A shit for fodder, would be easy to calc as bombs can bust boulders, Armor was supposed to do this feat. BOTW ones also worth looking into, honestly just a mattr of finding a good boulder to calc, there's some hefty ones that might even breach into 9-A+ but I doubt, probably like 0.03-0.08. Some BOTW enemies can also shatter boulders so that could be interesting).

Something about destroying a continent.

Probably a fuckton of other storm feats. (I can think of like several beyond what's been brought up already).

Draining a lake (would scale to Morpha's water manip).

A blizzard creation feat (Might even be two of them).

The Imprisoned making a tornado (which while not very wide, in fact it's kind of puny, it would be super ******* tall, like record breakingly tall. Good feat given it's Imprisoned at his weakest, like literal magnitudes below Demise).

Thunderhead (Might be a tad difficult to calc, but I think I have a way to get a realistic wide map size in Skyward based simply on in game visuals and distances and nothing more).

Wind Waker Elemental Arrows (Been thinking about it, and I think it may qualify for universal magic shit, both take a mere tiny fraction of Link's magical energy to perform. Idk how to calc Ice Ring but I doubt it'd be worth it, but calcing Fire Mountain would net a good result. Looking at some other lava freezing calcs to get an approximate idea. Using in game sizes you can very, very, super ******* easily, get 8-B to 8-A, and that's based on using like a 3ft tall Toon Link to scale the lava plume, and again, another case of it being scaled down given I doubt a ******* MOUNTAIN is just like 25m tall).

King Dodongo dies or whatever, tier 8 allegedly but **** if I know the detail on that. (Also Gohma's 8-B feat but we have a calc for that).

Wizrobes BOTW do some storm shit. (There's a calc already, someone just needs to find it).

Great Fish isle gets ****** (Another scaled down thing, but the damage wasn't huge, even at actual island size it'd probably only net 8-A to low 7).

Midna literally nukes Hyrule Castle (iirc it was calced at tier 7, within the kilotons, based on in game alone, and Ganon upscales by a hilariously large degree).

Link smashes down a mountain path???? (Zelda 2, probably best to avoid this one completely).

More Majora feats that would get some nice ends but given it's Majora, it's probably not scalable to anyone else making it redundant given the ****** has a casual High 6-A feat and even a tier 4 feat making any number of tier 7 or 6 feats completely redundant.

Hylia rends the earth and sends chunks of land skyward across the world (No idea how to calculate this, we have no idea how many, they can vary drastically in size, and a bunch of shit. It's impossible to get an exact number. The best I could see would be like, getting Skyloft's PE. And then getting the PE off the islands elsewhere in the sky, figure out the distance between them, average it out, and then repeat across the planet and pray that the average expends across the whole of the surface like that approximately, which is way to vague and ****** to use imo, which is troubling, this is a good feat, but it's impossible to get any semblance of accuracy for it).

Demise ruptures open the ground (Just some tier 7 shit even with map scaling).

Demise turns mountains into scorch marks (Might actually be good as support).

Goron Link punches out the pillar in Snowhead (iirc it was 8-B, it's been calced though I know that).


I'm still going over the games for some feats, but we could probably start working on implementing the basis and backbone feats soon.
 
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I lied, Hyrule Historia says Ghirahim produced the tornado at the stat of the game.
 
Not sure what you're saying, my memory was just hazy is all, I thought the Imprisoned made it, it was actually Ghirahim who did so.
iMQ7L4f.png
 
It's kinda ******* high up though.
It's stated to be the highest limit of the clouds and so high that the only birds that can exist so high up is loftwings, which is also why Hylians were surprised by other birds on the surface as they can't exist so high up so they've never seen any other type. That would that tornado, while thin, super ******* tall. I might actually go and calc that quickly if I can find a tornado formula.
Dust_Collector said:
Besides the Historia, Ghirahim himself states that he made the tornado when Link firsts encounters him.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's probably true, I've only gone over MM/BOTW/WW thus far in detail, didn't bother with SS as I'm pretty sure al the notable feats have been brought up so I don't recall the specific dialogue by hand.
 
Nimbostratus or cumulus.
Pick, this actually matters.
 
Someone post the Malladus statements.
I'll take a look at it.

Also while going through shit, I found statements that suggest that the great sea of WW is continental in size. Plus a few other landmass statements. The WW I can't help but think might be helpful but I'm not certain, is there any feats that involve the whole of it? Did Ganon have a part in the huge ass storm?
There's a potential country wide storm feat I found, which while you'd think it wouldn't be useful given Hylia's feat is planetary and is only island of some degree. Storm feats are way better then the type of feat she did, so it might end up approximately the same (which is probably good for consistency given it's a Ganon feat).
 
Are we taking that to mean the new world continent, or like, the actual (surface) world (in the same vain as Demise's "destroy the world" statements, which contextually razed the planet (albeit over time, even if a small time), or like Majora's "destroy the world" statements, which glassed the surface).

Because that changes things quite a bit.
 
The new world continent. Armor mentioned the fact that the flood basically destroyed the old world there isn’t exactly much to be destroyed for Malladus.
 
r9oz3z1.png


All we have for the size of the flood is that it was continental in size. It obviously didn't encompass the whole world, if it did, there wouldn't of been a new continent in the first place for them to find, as it, along with any others, would have been sunk along with the Hyrulian continent.

As such, I'm not so sure. The Japanese scans also state "the rest of the world" in reference to Malladus line, so it's a bit odd.
 
Yo damn wtf, I went to save the japanese scans and didn't have enough space.
1rDQDoA.png


Like 90% of that shit is just random wiki relevant scans and shit, you people are ruining me 😩



Anyway, can confirm, he talks about destroying the world or whatever, asked for a translation though, we'll see what's being said precisely, along with the lines leading up to it.
 
Chariot190 said:
Also while going through shit, I found statements that suggest that the great sea of WW is continental in size. Plus a few other landmass statements. The WW I can't help but think might be helpful but I'm not certain, is there any feats that involve the whole of it? Did Ganon have a part in the huge ass storm?
There's a potential country wide storm feat I found, which while you'd think it wouldn't be useful given Hylia's feat is planetary and is only island of some degree. Storm feats are way better then the type of feat she did, so it might end up approximately the same (which is probably good for consistency given it's a Ganon feat).
Click to expand...
I'll post the blog in a minute, but assuming the great sea is the same size as our real world smallest continent would make the storm that Ganon creates 36 to 59 gigatons depending on the stability that's chosen. So a good supporting feat to go alongside Hylias cloud barrier and hopefully Calamity Ganons blood moon stuff (I'm pretty confident that should get some nice big gigatons)
 
What blog?

Anyway.

Jap scans say something like

"Before my soul is extinguished. Onore... Onore... The rest of the world will be reduced/destroyed in the remaining time!!"' Or something like that.

Reduce basically being extremely elementary tier wording for "destroy" in context. Given the target demographic and the fact I could be wrong, but the whole game is in simplified japanese. That's just me half-assing it though, we'll get a better one sometime today that's actually precise.



Anyway, Ghirahim's tornado is actually gonna be good looking at it, someone give me a tornado formula and I can get the tornado's diameter quite easily by pixel scaling. Height I have a few ideas in mind already. I'd bet my ass it's like 7-A easy. Though I'm new to cloud shit so I should stop saying shit like that.

The WW storm feat is good then, slap that as a supporting feat. (There's also the OOT cloud feat, but I don't think it'll be as high or even close to WW, and every character that scales off the OOT cloud feat, scales off the WW feat as well so it's literally 100% obsolete).

Again, there's other Zelda calcs I'm putting together atm as well that could help too while going through the games looking for feats. We still need a feat to scale mid-late game bosses off I think. And technically a feat for ToP and above, as they scale almost incomparably higher then Hylia, a proper feat would be best instead of just "At least Hylia's feat, likely higher" on all of them. (Though we could maybe scale them to the Giants/Majora like they used to be, I'm unsure if that scaling is solid beyond a generous "possibly" though).

The BOTW Blood Moon feat (assuming you mean the clouds) is either good, or ass, depends how we do it. Do we take the speed we visually see, do we go by in game time, etc, it would change the result by a ludicrous amount.
 
Chariot190 said:
What blog?
Click to expand...
This one

For ToP scaling, at best I think the ToP and anyone comparable could have a "possibly" High 6-A rating from the giants/restricted Majora. For the Blood Moon feat, I think using the speed we visually see would be better, the cutscene where Zelda talks about how the blood moon has happened (And every subsequent cutscene where she brings it up), the clouds still move at a similar speed that they do in gameplay, and Zeldas explanation doesn't take minutes to happen and the in game clock doesn't have even a minute go by as she talks.
 
Fair enough.

Also.
Heavily weakened dying Ganon has a 5kt feat in OOT (Collapsing the castle).
Ganon floating the castle and a chunk of land over the pool of lava is 49.053 kilotons. (Ridiculously casual feat that is done at all times with zero conscious thought, Ganon is basically outputting this much magical energy every second, for like, years on end).
So I guess slap those onto the pile, if memory serves, the castle size was obtained by literally just pxel scaling the inside of it off Link, so there's no weird shit in play here I don't think.

Goht's winter feat is 12.028 gigatons allegedly too, idk if anyone mentioned that but it's consistent with Gyrog's feat and uses the same scaling (literally the same blog).
 
Wait is the breath of the wild Moon feat being discussed? I thought that was unanimously accepted as being bunk in the downgrade thread that Warren made a while back
 
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