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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

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Because it’s literally the only thing we have to scale spirit tracks to. Why would we NOT have some form of calc to get the characters from that game tiered?
 
Because it's impossible to get an accurate calc.
We don't know the method, it could be explosion, which could lead into ground or air burst, it could be physicals, in which case would it be frag, v.frag, pulv? And how deep would it go? The entire landmass, the surface, some other unknown depth? Could it be something else like through his dark magic? Or what about the meteor he shoots? Is he destroying it through a meteor? That'd give a different result to, or maybe a rain of them? If so we'd have to divide by the amount of attacks, which we don't even know the amount it'd take. And then there's the fact it might not even be New Hyrule, it could very well just be the whole of the surface world in general, which doubles the amount of ends because we'd have to calc every method for both New Hyrule and the whole surface.
Plus we don't know how many attacks it is, even if it's done via a short timeframe, it could be, one, or it could be like a dozen, after all he had enough time to fight Link still so it ain't like he had just second, probably at least a solid few minutes.
And there is other things in Spirit Tracks fyi (though they're aren't exactly tier 6).

Like I get it but the issue is we simply can't, not without getting like no shit, about 18 different ends, in which, how do we pick which one is the right one? We straight up can't, they'd all be equally viable. Like worse case scenario, Malladus would probably scale off Zelda so it ain't like there's nothing (Would warrant "At least 6-C, likely higher"), but calc wise for this statement, all I see it being useful for is supporting the likes of Ganondorf and the higher tiers being able to destroy the world and making possible scaling to Skull Kid not an outlier for the ToP and a likely higher/likely far higher for Malludus himself.
I wish we could calc it properly, because trust me I tried, but there's just to many variables.
 
That’s why I suggested we get all forms of destruction calced and we get a calc member to choose which type of destruction would be acceptable.
 
just pick the lowest one of out the various results IMO, it's not like we can actually know
 
Either way we got the calc done, I contacted Bambu to see if we can get Levia’s and Faron’s feats calced, once those are done and approved we can discuss which characters scale to which feats.
 
Theglassman12 said:
That’s why I suggested we get all forms of destruction calced and we get a calc member to choose which type of destruction would be acceptable.
Click to expand...
That's the thing though. It's not a matter of whatever a calc member chooses, because not even they know, it ain't a matter of what math checks out the best or looks the best.
For all we know the absolute highest most convoluted method could be the proper one, or the lowest most simple end, or anything inbetween.

We simply do not and can not know, it's not something a calc group member or even us can truly decide, we have like nothing to go on except he is gonna destroy the rest of the world in probably a handful of minutes, if we at least seen the aftermath we could maybe figure it out but we don't even get that. Even if we restrict it to simply the things we know he attacks with in that form (physical strikes and flaming meteorite-esque attacks) that's still like 8 different ends.

The absolute best case scenario here is at most he's getting a "possibly" regardless of what end we choose as that's all it is, I guess it'd be 6-C, possibly whatever the dozen ends we pick.

If you're getting some calcs done, get someone to calc Ghirahim's tornado, it's probably only tier 7 but it's probably safe to presume he did it in base, which would scale a few dudes who are lacking a tier atm. Atop of Eldin's volcano feat which would scale to a **** ton of characters and bosses, basically every late game boss in OOT/TP due to Master Sword>Goddess Sword 2>Ghirahim 2>Eldin.
 
I’m getting the Levia’s and Faron’s calc checked off as of now, don’t know if I can find anyone who can do the ghirahim tornado calc but I’ll see what I can find
 
Here.
Issue is the size of the volcano. Do we take the in-game size? If so, loading the map up in noclip would be easy to get. The """"lore"""" size? Well that depends how big we wanna treat Skyward Sword, that area though is constantly called a province. And if it's Death Mountain then that obviously makes it even harder to get because that could be a bunch of sizes.

But if we can agree on what we doing, well, after that it's just calcing a basic volcano feat.
 
Do we have lore statements on how large the mountain is? If we don’t then in game size is fine.
 
Besides the fact it's called a huge mountain and takes up a chunk of the province. Not much. Though if it is Death Mountain (probably is) then we have more to go on.
 
I mean for realistic tornadoes sure, but we're talking about one that's far, far, above 11277.6m in height and if taken at face value, up to like 30km in height.
That's a big ass tornado.

Though of course it's not exactly super wide so that could compromise it, but who knows. 7-C would actually be helpful though, it'd scale to early-mid game, not quite early, but not quite mid.
 
Can you calc the size? If so that can help, if not then we can just leave it at 7-C.
 
I can probably get the width yeah, I'll do so sometime today probably. It'd just be a matter of going frame by frame till Zelda/Loftwing is the closest to it before becoming to small to see.
 
It's probably possible for fictional characters to make tornadoes stronger than 7-C. But I agree that 7-C is as high as RL tornados goes.
 
Do we have any timeframe on the volcano eruption? Cause the calc member I’ve tried to ask said they don’t know the timeframe on the eruption, and can’t calc it.
 
Yeah, literal seconds, it's clear when Link drops, there's a big rumble, then it's like, completely erupted.
 
Eruptions can vary by a ridiculous amount. They can be anywhere from a few kilotons to hundreds of megatons. We're gonna need a calc on this one.
 
Do we have a calc for Calamity Gumbo moving the clouds when he reaches the peak of his power? Pretty sure that's the only notable feat for the higher tier characters we have left.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Do we have a calc for Calamity Gumbo moving the clouds when he reaches the peak of his power? Pretty sure that's the only notable feat for the higher tier characters we have left.
Click to expand...
No. But it's just a basic KE calc no? I've been a tad busy doing calcs for a verse I'm working on atm (honestly just one calc left, should be done once I get home tbh),
I did take a look at Ganon's feat though, the main issue with the calc is getting the mass, as the sky isn't cloud filled, there's gaps and the like, it's basically just a normal sky, albeit a fast one, we can't just get Hyrule's area and slap cloud mass on it. Not sure how we'd go about it.
The speed shouldn't be that difficult though.

Though for what it's worth, it's definitely tier 6, and it scales to Ganon at his weakest (well kinda, it's Ganon's weakest incarnation if memory serves, at least in the japanese version of BOTW, I know the eng version says basically the exact opposite).
 
I don't think we have a calc for that, pretty sure we only had the "moon moving" part of the scene calced but no clouds.
 
Well, it's important we calc it, but we might be able to put it on hold.
Ganondorf normally scales above Malladus, and other shit so he doesnt actually need this feat at all, doubt the cloud KE is hitting 6-B.
Hylia and Demise we dont know how they stack up to CG so they'd just scale to their own feats.
Vaati scales to his own shit because he's in some weird intermediate between high and top tier.
Majora straight up doenst give a **** and is playing a completely different game compared to everyone else.

Basically all CG's feat does is support Ganon with the ToP's placement (it'd just be another tier 6 feat he'd upscale off, and we have like 3-4 already) and m a y b e Demise but idk. Basically, it's a feat that's just for himself, BOTW Link and BOTW Zelda. So well we do need it, we can probably still finish and implement a chunk of this still without it.
 
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Yeah that all sounds fine. Just apply the calcs we have now and then throw in Calamity Ganons feat as an extra support feat for TOP Ganondorf and anyone else on that level later on.
 
doing fine, we're discussion the remaining SS calcs and the cloud movement from BOTW, but so far we got no feedback on any calcs being made.
 
Did any of the calc group dudes you ran the feats by calc any yet? The Eldin eruption's timeframe was in the video I linked fyi. It was just a small handful of seconds.
 
I asked Demon to calc the eldin thing, Bambu said he'd cover the Levia and Faron feats.
 
So I guess we're waiting on that then.
Also in other news, Vaati's feat is 6-C, no calc though, mostly because it'd be completely redundant because Ganon's storm calc by Dust is identical, they're quite literally the same exact feat.
The only really difference would be if we used an alternate stability for Vaati's, though Ganon's and Vaati's both look pretty similar so doubt it.

Hey Dust, do we have a feat for Onox? Or are we gonna continue using Chaos' Tier 7 storm calc for him? Pretty sure the way he got the size was literally just scaling the map off a dungeon, and that dungeon off Link. Which is probably the best we can get but at least it basically confirms there's no real inflation of sizes with that one as it's all in game scaling.

We could probably just update Hylia/Demise atm though, the other SS feats won't be as high as Hylia's so we can safely continue on to them.
 
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Chariot190 said:
Hey Dust, do we have a feat for Onox? Or are we gonna continue using Chaos' Tier 7 storm calc for him? Pretty sure the way he got the size was literally just scaling the map off a dungeon, and that dungeon off Link. Which is probably the best we can get but at least it basically confirms there's no real inflation of sizes with that one as it's all in game scaling.
Click to expand...
Personally I think sticking with the calc Chaos made for the storm would be best. Onox does have another feat in sinking the temple of seasons but unless we get real whacky with its size and mass it ain't coming close to what the storm gets.
 
Pretty sure Chaos calced that actually, among a bunch of other feats. I know he has a few 8-B calcs for some lo end bosses, but it's impossible to get ahold of some.
I can grab the tier 7 OOT Ganon passive calcs though, but there's zero ******* point when the dude is scaling to like tier 6.
 
Save those other random calcs for later, right now we have to get the Skyward sword stuff finished.
 
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