Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

[Chariot190]

Finally home again after a few days, still not overly available though but...

Well we got some progress at least. Is calcing Hylia and Demise’s cloud feats possible?

Cloud calcs are feasible yes. Not only that, we could slap on the PE of the islands scattered across the world to her power given it's essentially one in the same featwise.

PE is easy though, issue is which formula would we use to calc the clouds? it's planetary bar a few gaping holes here and there so we have the area and we can get thickness of it via Link's leap, so literally just a matter of what formula we wanna use on it.

 

[Theglassman12]

Could we do any of the formulas and get a calc member to decide which result is the better choice? I feel like that can be the better of both worlds here.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

No, we’re waiting for the recalcs first before we do any changes.

Ok

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dust_Collector DMUA commented on your ether medallion calc.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Changed the calc according to his comment, high end barely makes it into High 7-A now.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Shouldn’t the Levia’s storm, Link clearing a storm, Faron’s flood be moved to accepted since it has been been a Calc Group Member

And for Majora’s Moon Drop, wasn’t this the calc we were going to use

 

[Chariot190]

And for Majora’s Moon Drop, wasn’t this the calc we were going to use

It is, but, the calc linked in the OP for Majora actually has that too, it's in the blog's comments. So F.

 

[Theglassman12]

@KobsterHope07 Cyber and Phantom said they wanna do a recalc of the feat.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Armorchompy Can you check this calc for us?

 

[Dust_Collector]

DMUA accepted the high end of the ether medallion calc.

 

[Theglassman12]

Awesome, so now that we wait for every single Skyward sword calc to be done on top of the Malladus feat, should we get any scalings out of the way so we know what the characters will be rated as?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dust_Collector @Chariot190 are you guys down to discuss where the characters should be tiered?

 

[Chariot190]

@Dust_Collector @Chariot190 are you guys down to discuss where the characters should be tiered?

Yes, though, I'm still a bit busy irl due to some complications but scaling shouldn't be that much of a hassle to discuss, not like I'm doing calcs or having to go through a **** ton of material looking for scans.

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, just to get the big one out of the way, we are scaling the child link bosses to 9-B via the bombs right? Ignoring any potential calcs we need for the bombs?

 

[Chariot190]

Alright, just to get the big one out of the way, we are scaling the child link bosses to 9-B via the bombs right? Ignoring any potential calcs we need for the bombs?

Wasn't there an 8-B King Dodongo calc by Chaostheory? Would likely need to be redone but iirc it involved like, solidifying the pool of lava when it died.
Though the bombs are definitely within 9-A+/low 8-C, we just need to recalc them (BOTW has easy 9-A+ bombs, though i doubt we want to crosscale that, given OOT lacks Bokoblins to upscale bosses off), honestly wouldn't be hard, just take a screenshot of Link next to it, pixel scale, apply frag or v.frag or whatever is best, bam done.

Gohma though is probably fine at 9-B based on Link's rock frag feat.

 

[Armorchompy]

Why would solidifying a pool scale to AP? Dodongos don't even have magic or anything.

 

[Chariot190]

Why would solidifying a pool scale to AP? Dodongos don't even have magic or anything.

Idk, I barely remember the calc details, or even the exact result, I'm going on a memory of me looking at his blog at like 10am after an all nighter for about 5 minutes back in 2013-14, I just recall he calced King Dodongo solidifying that pool of lava and got tier 8 something, and that's about it tbh

We'd need to check it over to see if it's even legit given how old it is, and then discuss if it's usable or scalable if the math/formula checks out.

 

[Theglassman12]

Alright, what about Vaati’s scaling and the triforce of power scaling? Are we gonna just upscale from Malladus for the ToP or do we have anything else to scale the characters from?

 

[Chariot190]

Armor says he's gonna calc the bomb feat tomorrow (And now that I outted him he's now forced to ).
Though I did a quick rough calc and got 9-A, like 0.3 tons so probably around there for early OOT bosses, for more of a upscale given it takes a fuckton to beat King Dodongo, and that's via eating it.

ToP could maybe scale to Majora's moon drop, or at least 1/4th of it via the Giant's, it's weird, but that's only a "possibly" at best, for a more concrete rating, we could likely scale the ToP above, well, literally anything bar the full triforce in the main universe, so it'd probably scale to Hylia and Demise's feat, plus Malladus, whenever the **** those get calced. (Also it has some destroy the world statements iirc, kinda vague ones, but it help supports tier 6 scaling given that's what Hylia is gonna end up as as her feat absolutely aint dropping below that when calced).

Vaati pretty sure just scales to Hylia via Light Force, so again, whatever her and Demise end up as. (Demise has a feat where he created a fissure, we even see it in BOTW, but probably not above town lv).

Ignoring ToP, Eldin's volcano feat is good, Ghirahim scales to it, and a pre master sword and triforce-less Link scales to him, basically meaning any Link worth a damn upscales, which fleshes out a slew of mid-late game bosses and enemies' AP and durability. (Minus BOTW and like WW for notable Links).

 

[Theglassman12]

Ganon himself has the triforce piece in Zelda 1 right?

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes

 

[Theglassman12]

Is there any feats that Link’s Awakening can scale to or is he gonna be Unknown? Cause he left the master sword behind at the end of ALTTP so we can’t exactly scale him off that.

 

[Chariot190]

That depends, are we treating Awakening Link as the same as the Oracle Link or not? Do we accept the retcon?

 

[Armorchompy]

Are we still going with Awakening taking place in a realm that's the same as reality? Cause if not considering it's a dream we might not be able to scale it to other games.

 

[Chariot190]

Are we still going with Awakening taking place in a realm that's the same as reality? Cause if not considering it's a dream we might not be able to scale it to other games.

?
Link's Awakening, the adventure, takes place in a weird dream world, but the Link is real along with his equipment, and the inhabitants are "real" along with the island (It's functionally the same as an actual place, Link couldn't even tell a difference at first), it's literally weird Azazoth shit.
Any feat Link does in that game should be scalable, though the issue is less scaling Awakening Link to other games, and instead finding feats for Awakening Link himself to scale off, the game doesn't have any good feats besides like 9-B rock destruction and the island dream feat, which after all the universal downgrades and shit, probably wouldn't even hit Tier 6, and Link doesn't scale to that so it's completely useless. Meaning we'd need to find feats from like the Oracle games to scale Awakening Link off of (or early AlttP before he gets any buffs). But the oracle games and Awakening Link was divided into not being the same Link anymore, do we accept that retcon? If so then we can't use the Oracle games to scale him off as it's nt the same dude anymore, which leaves just early AlttP to scale him off, which I don't see getting beyond 9-B+.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, idk I just woke up so a bit groggy so who the **** knows, I'm typing this while half-asleep in bed.

 

[Armorchompy]

no i haven't played LA so i just wanted to make sure

 

[Lgamer099_99]

What about calc this?

 

[Lgamer099_99]

That's what Demise did at the beginning of SS, I am currently playing SS HD so I am remembering stuff.
We can also calc Hylia covering skyloft with clouds.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, I actually brought that up like yesterday or the day before. It's a solid feat, but I doubt it'd be above tier 7. Though it could enter tier 6 if we treat BOTW Hyrule like a country like it's constantly implied to be and not a 14km land.

We can also calc Hylia covering skyloft with clouds.

Yeah, we need to calc that, it's definitely tier 6, it ain't just skyloft, it was the whole of the planet, it's probably gonna be our best Mid-High tier feat.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Chariot190 considering we have the Oracle games Link as a separate character thanks to the retcon, safe to say yes we do consider it not connected.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Lgamer099_99 do we have an exact timeframe on how long Demise did that feat or no? If not I don’t think we can use that, so calcing the cloud stuff seems like the best option.

 

[Chariot190]

@Chariot190 considering we have the Oracle games Link as a separate character thanks to the retcon, safe to say yes we do consider it not connected.

Well **** Awakening Link I guess, he's stuck scaling to early AlttP Link then, by virtue of being literally that but with more experience.

@Lgamer099_99 do we have an exact timeframe on how long Demise did that feat or no? If not I don’t think we can use that, so calcing the cloud stuff seems like the best option.

Implied to have been quick. It's worded like it was peaceful, and then suddenly out of nowhere one day the ground split open and Demise poured out the fissure.
...It was an unprecedented war so terrifying and vehement that its likes would never be seen again... All of a sudden the earth split, and evil beings made their appearance...

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah, I actually brought that up like yesterday or the day before. It's a solid feat, but I doubt it'd be above tier 7. Though it could enter tier 6 if we treat BOTW Hyrule like a country like it's constantly implied to be and not a 14km land.

We can likely get a good size for Hyrule by the distance between Dueling Peaks and Kakariko Village. Stuff like Creating a Champion and other statements in BOTW and I think AOC confirm it takes half a day to get from Dueling Peaks to Kakariko, and that distance makes up a very, very, small part of the overall country. I recall seeing a calculation years ago to get the lore size for Hyrule based on that distance and it ended up with Hyrule being roughly the size of an average European country.

 

[Theglassman12]

Well alright then, at least we got a solid destruction feat to back up Demise’s ratings

 

[Chariot190]

Stuff like Creating a Champion and other statements in BOTW and I think AOC confirm it takes half a day to get from Dueling Peaks to Kakariko,

Post that statement, I'll do a quick approximate pixel scale given I'm doing so other calcs atm so may as well.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Don't much time to find the statements from the games but here's the statement from Creating a Champion.

I was a bit off since it was actually blatchery plains and not dueling peaks but it's still the same general area.

 

[Chariot190]

Found it, I'll calc it after breakfast. For half a day, are we going to assume no breaks? Given they were kinda running for their lives in the middle of a cataclysmic event and quite literally couldnt afford to stop, to the point that Zelda was shown completely ******* exhausted.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah given the situation I think we should assume they'd take no breaks.

 

[Theglassman12]

Goddamnit now you guys are making me think of this scene with the breaks in between the onslaught.

 

[Chariot190]

Done getting the distance between the two spots. When we say half a day, do we wanna go with 6h or 12h?

Then again it wouldnt matter much, I guess I could just go with either and depending on which one we wanna use we just double or halve the end result so why the **** am I even asking