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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

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@Cyberblader90 we’re talking about whether or not the triforce amp is consistent since we only have one case of it happening and it scales to no one.
 
Yes but that doesn’t mean the triforce itself is evil, there’s even a statement where it says it doesn’t recognize good nor evil when used.
 
Okay, so here's what I found.

There are two statement of Ganon "building up his power" which implies a direct intake of the Triforce's power directly within himself.



There's also this statement in which he is "armed with the power of gold."



Not only does that imply that he's utilizing the Triforce's power, but also that said power can in fact transmit to multiple entities. which implies that it doesn't need to be in direct contact for a power amp. This same statement also basically states that it's the Triforce's power itself that Link will have to overcome.

And one final thing I found that helps prove my point further is how Ganon was literally waiting in his tower to enter into the Light World and conquer it, despite the Triforce being inside of the Pyramid.



This to me speaks volumes to the fact that he already has the Triforce's power within him, without being in direct contact. The Triforce is literally the singular thing that he needed in order to rule the cosmos, so to assume that he'd just start attacking the Light World without its power is just silly.
 
Building up power is just a common phrase (hell pretty sure it's even used in games like OOT in response to human Ganon) and that isn't in reference to the Triforce either.
The third quote doesn't inherently mean anything either.

Though the power of gold line is interesting, does the japanese version say the same thing? If so that could at least be indicative 🤔
 
Honestly if we wanna look at the Japanese text, I feel like that would open the gates for someone to scrub through all the dialogue again lolol. But it would be interesting if we found the text for this particular.

Also, I still think him building up his power can still work here. Human Ganon may have also had a similar statement, but that was with the Triforce of Power. So it would totally make sense for the same to be true with the complete Triforce.
 
ホォッホッホッ…。　これで
７賢者の封印も　めでたく
とかれたワケですなあ。

魔の力が、この国をおおいつく
すのも時間のもんだいですぞ…

しょせん伝説の『勇者』も
『黄金の力』を持つ、われらが
魔族には、かないませんか。

ホォッホッホッ　さらばじゃ！

Ho, ho, ho.... That means that with this, even the seal of the Seven Sages seal has been successfully dissolved.

It is only a matter of time before demonic power engulfs this country...

So, in the end, is even the legendary "Hero" is no match for we demons who hold the "Golden Power".

Ho, ho, ho, farewell!



So kinda. He says something close to it.
 
Hey, could you show me the resource where you found that? I think that could be a useful place for me to check out.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
Building power could inherently just mean he's building his forces
Click to expand...
To me that still feels like a stretch. Even by Ocarina of Time he already had a “world of monsters” under his control before he even obtained the Triforce. And the game seemed pretty clear that he was waiting in his tower so that he alone could enter the Light World.
 
Check OP. You can see what's been rejected, accepted and what's in discussion.
 
Legit, but as of now, only in a single instance which doesn't scale to anyone imo.
The other times while they had it, they didn't seem to be actively using its power or consolidating it for their own magical prowess, especially in cases like with Link where he just kinda, left it in a completely different ******* time. (Meaning even if he did use it to amp, it was never used in combat and especially not against Demise).
 
So basically, none of the links would legitimately scale to the triforce, and Ganon at that one point in time would scale right?
 
I’m still firmly in the camp that Ganon was amped in A Link to The Past, so I think that Link should scale. Otherwise I’m fine with no one else getting amped.
 
Theglassman12 said:
So basically, none of the links would legitimately scale to the triforce, and Ganon at that one point in time would scale right?
Click to expand...
In my opinion yes. Mostly because it's outright stated he added its power to his own and into one.

skyward Link had it, but like, for five seconds, literally just wished on it and then ****** off to the past so even if it WAS amping him, it wouldn't be any longer given time travel to the past, which directly results in Demise and Ghirahim not scaling to it at all either.

AlttP Ganon is weird but from the looks of it, he was using it, but not constantly nor to power himself up? Merely just as a last resort type of thing he had slipped into his back pocket? (So I guess it'd be optional equipment anyway? But it shouldn't effect his stats all that much?).

Really only AlttP Ganon is open for debate still but eh... (I'd go on record and say Link shouldn't scale if it was amping Ganon tho, it'd be a blatant outlier given other games and interactions, like maybe the Lv3 Golden Master Sword at best but at that point it could be the blade of evil's bane anti-evil hax doing the talking and not actual AP).
 
oh boy im going to get slayed for this>

So lets say ganon was amped fully, would base link beating him not be an outlier potentially?
 
I mean it isn’t exactly base Link here. He has the combined power from all 7 sages, the level 4 sword blessed by the Dark World Great Fairy, and the silver arrows. If this really were a base Link, I’d feel inclined to agree it’s an outlier, but he literally spends the entire game powering up in preparation for the final battle.
 
TentTaku said:
I mean it isn’t exactly base Link here. He has the combined power from all 7 sages, the level 4 sword blessed by the Dark World Great Fairy, and the silver arrows. If this really were a base Link, I’d feel inclined to agree it’s an outlier, but he literally spends the entire game powering up in preparation for the final battle.
Click to expand...
See that's the thing though.
We already know the seven sages ain't shit to a triforce empowered Ganon, (there was a whole war where it took the combined efforts, prep, untold lost of life and more to simply BFR him because they couldn't beat him directly).
The Lv4 Master Sword is fair, at the very least its anti-evil hax would scale to Ganon.
And the arrows don't actually effect Link's stats or physicals, they're just a anti-ganon weapon he has.

I mean put simply, while he was powered up, he wasn't powered up beyond what like, end of OOT Link was and the like (Who mind you, died in this timeline). And the rest is literally designed to make Ganon eat dirt regardless of stats (Though the Master Sword does amp, my point is it'd **** Ganon even if it didnt) and especially the arrows which don't effect Link's stats at all.
 
Questions.
Have we agreed on the full triforce itself being 3-a?

And lastly, my memory's a bit fuzzy on this so I need input. Did link get the full triforce in skyward sword?
 
Chariot190 said:
See that's the thing though.
We already know the seven sages ain't shit to a triforce empowered Ganon, (there was a whole war where it took the combined efforts, prep, untold lost of life and more to simply BFR him because they couldn't beat him directly).
The Lv4 Master Sword is fair, at the very least its anti-evil hax would scale to Ganon.
And the arrows don't actually effect Link's stats or physicals, they're just a anti-ganon weapon he has.

I mean put simply, while he was powered up, he wasn't powered up beyond what like, end of OOT Link was and the like. And the rest is literally designed to make Ganon eat dirt regardless of stats (Though the Master Sword does amp, my point is it'd **** Ganon even if it didnt) and especially the arrows which don't effect Link's stats at all.
Click to expand...
The sages literally had the power to seal him tho. It’s not like they were utterly useless against him. Their power alone just wasn’t enough to outright defeat him. Throughout the game, all of the sages you rescue make a big deal about beating Ganon with their power combined. them, the master sword, and Link himself.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
Questions.
Have we agreed on the full triforce itself being 3-a?

And lastly, my memory's a bit fuzzy on this so I need input. Did link get the full triforce in skyward sword?
Click to expand...
We agree with 3-A Triforce, we’re just discussing A Link to The Pasts scaling. And Skyward Sword Link did get the complete Triforce, although there’s no evidence that it amped him.
 
TentTaku said:
The sages literally had the power to seal him tho. It’s not like they were utterly useless against him. Their power alone just wasn’t enough to outright defeat him. Throughout the game, all of the sages you rescue make a big deal about beating Ganon with their power combined. them, the master sword, and Link himself.
Click to expand...
Sealing is hax though, that's the thing, that's all they could do. They quite literally and explicitly couldn't do anything beyond BFR him. They were powerless to kill him or even fight him directly, it's why so many died and why there was a huge war and why they resorted to BFR in lack of other options.

I'm sure the sages did make a big deal of it, issue being we know from precedence that seven sages combined can't actually stand up to Ganon in direct power even working in tandem, always having to resort to BFR.
And while it would amp Link, it demonstrably wouldn't be on par with the full triforce (I'd wager it wouldn't even be on par with a single piece based on other times Link got amped by sages).
Master Sword would definitely help though, it's designed to annihilate the likes of Ganon on contact and same with the arrows.

It's less "seven sages+ master sword+arrows=ganon-esque power boost" but more like "seven sages+anti-ganon hax+anti-ganon hax=can beat ganon through a multitude of options".

If we say the seven sages amped Link enough to 1v1 a amped Triforce Ganon, that would unironically put AlttP Ganon around OOT Ganon in terms of power, which is obviously not the case. And while Alttp Link had extra things going for him, like the arrows, those don't effect Link physically at all.
 
Just drop it, we're doing everything else here so may as well.
But if its about that breath millions of worlds line, there was a thread on that awhile back.
(Though looking at JPN text dumps did solidify they created the whole of the main world, so they have a low 2-C feat at least).
 
Chariot190 said:
Just drop it, we're doing everything else here so may as well.
But if its about that breath millions of worlds line, there was a thread on that awhile back.
(Though looking at JPN text dumps did solidify they created the whole of the main world, so they have a low 2-C feat at least).
Click to expand...
this?
世に　理なく、命未だ　形なさず。

When there was no reason in the world and life did not yet have form.

混沌の地　ハイラルに 黄金の三大神、降臨す。 
Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule.

すなわち、力の女神　ディン… 
Their names were Din, the goddess of power…

知恵の女神　ネール… 
Nayru, the goddess of wisdom…

勇気の女神　フロルなり。 
And Farore, the goddess of courage.

ディン… 
Din…

その　たくましき　炎の腕を　もって、地を耕し、赤き大地を　創る。 
With her strong arms of flame, she cultivated the land and created the red earth.

ネール… 
Nayru…

その叡知を　大地に　注ぎて、世界に　法を与える。 
She poured her intelligence into the earth and gave laws to the world.

フロル… 
Farore…

その　豊かなる心により、 法を守りし　全ての命　創造せり。 
Because of her abundant heart, all life that would follow the laws was created.

三大神、その　使命を終え、彼の国へ　去り行きたもう。 
With their mission completed, the three great gods left to go to that country.

神々の　去りし地に、黄金の聖三角　残し置く。 
Golden sacred triangles were left behind in the land from which the gods left.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
this?
世に　理なく、命未だ　形なさず。

When there was no reason in the world and life did not yet have form.

混沌の地　ハイラルに 黄金の三大神、降臨す。 
Three great golden goddesses descended to the land of chaos that was Hyrule.

すなわち、力の女神　ディン… 
Their names were Din, the goddess of power…

知恵の女神　ネール… 
Nayru, the goddess of wisdom…

勇気の女神　フロルなり。 
And Farore, the goddess of courage.

ディン… 
Din…

その　たくましき　炎の腕を　もって、地を耕し、赤き大地を　創る。 
With her strong arms of flame, she cultivated the land and created the red earth.

ネール… 
Nayru…

その叡知を　大地に　注ぎて、世界に　法を与える。 
She poured her intelligence into the earth and gave laws to the world.

フロル… 
Farore…

その　豊かなる心により、 法を守りし　全ての命　創造せり。 
Because of her abundant heart, all life that would follow the laws was created.

三大神、その　使命を終え、彼の国へ　去り行きたもう。 
With their mission completed, the three great gods left to go to that country.

神々の　去りし地に、黄金の聖三角　残し置く。 
Golden sacred triangles were left behind in the land from which the gods left.
Click to expand...
Not that no. Well at least I don't think it was that. There was a line that I swear straight up said before the world existed and that they brought it into existence, like, as a whole. i'd have to look for it again.
 
Chariot190 said:
Not that no. Well at least I don't think it was that. There was a line that I swear straight up said before the world existed and that they brought it into existence, like, as a whole. i'd have to look for it again.
Click to expand...
Are you thinking of the “before time began” statement?
 
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