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the dark world is a terraformed sacred realm. It isnt a creation feat in the typical sense
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Zelda tiering and scaling revisions
- Thread starter Theglassman12
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How would the statements of the Dark World vanishing fit in with that? Going by the definition of “vanish” would mean to disappear suddenly and completely. To me this implies that the Dark World itself is still practically a separate creation from the Sacred Realm, and once it vanishes the Sacred Realm is then reinstated.
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- #403
The world vanishing won’t exactly help given HH said it gradually faded away.
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That’s not my point. I’m arguing that the fact that it vanishes entirely implies that it’s a separate construct from the Sacred Realm. (That being said, there is a timeframe thing involving the sages that I do want to get into later once we’re done discussing the Dark World itself.)
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Technically speaking, HH is only supplementary, what see in game takes precedence. Followed by HH. Followed by the encyclopedia.
if the game shows or says otherwise we'd use that, otherwise we'd still be using shit like the wind fish feat due to supplementary sources contradicting the game itself.
Though this depends on what vanish actually entails, how long gradual is (there could be overlap) and what the jpn version says as well
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- #407
@TentTaku hmm, not sure they mean the realm vanished and the sacred realm is made after. I’m pretty sure what they meant by is the dark influence from Ganon’s twisted heart vanishes from the sacred realm. Unless I missed a line that implies the opposite.
also I don’t think we include encyclopedia? I haven’t read the encyclopedia myself but going off Chariot’s comments I assume it’s not consistent with the actual lore.
@Chariot190 wasnt the main argument against wind fish being that the island was the only thing that vanished AND HH calls it an illusionary world?
also I don’t think we include encyclopedia? I haven’t read the encyclopedia myself but going off Chariot’s comments I assume it’s not consistent with the actual lore.
@Chariot190 wasnt the main argument against wind fish being that the island was the only thing that vanished AND HH calls it an illusionary world?
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HH says a lot of shit, and other material says other things. Ultimately it was best to just go with what was in the game given conflicting info, which demonstrably showed the island fading away, and it not being uni in size as well as the stars in question being localized within the egg, not the actual sky.
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The screenshot I posted say “his Dark World will vanish.” This on top of how differently the game and supplementary lore treat the Dark World and the Sacred Realm is what’s leading me to conclude that they are different constructs.
(Also I thought Wind Fish was downgraded because it didn’t meet stabilization standards)
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Nah I just ******* hate it
It's usable, but it's still only supplementary material at best. Mostly due to authorial shit and the like. We've used it a lot here, that parallel world chart for example is from the encyclopedia. It's definitely not as """""""canon""""""" as HH or the games themselves though but it do be canon, at least to an extent.
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Pretty sure stabilization is like one of the few things it DID qualify for. Just that the thing he was stabilizing was wacky as **** and wasn't 3-A. Either way it doesn't matter, Wind Fish is kill, let's not beat him any further.
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- #412
So where does everyone stand on 3-A triforce? That it’s only through reality warping or that it could amp the users?
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3-A (though a cautious 3-A) imo is aight.
Amping needs to be looked into still. So far only one instance has a confirmed full amp. And it's an instance where Link was ******* dead, Ganon steamrolled everyone, and it took prep and trickery to incap him. Ie, literally nobody scales to that instance.
Other instances need more discussion to see if amping applies.
Amping needs to be looked into still. So far only one instance has a confirmed full amp. And it's an instance where Link was ******* dead, Ganon steamrolled everyone, and it took prep and trickery to incap him. Ie, literally nobody scales to that instance.
Other instances need more discussion to see if amping applies.
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- #415
If we do accept the amp, are we gonna have a separate tier for the base characters, and another tier just for the triforce amp?
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We'd have to yeah. In fact don't we already do that?
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thats the best idea for that, splitting the keys
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That seems reasonable. The only non-Triforce user that should scale is endgame Link to The Past Link, and that was only because he was decked out with basically every measure possible to counter Gabon’s power.
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- #419
Nope, I’m 99% sure SS link flat out scales to the full triforce, and even one of the Ganon’s and some other Links.
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- #421
Demise’s feat was High 4-C, not 3-A to Low 2-C, so it has to be him scaling to the full triforce that gave him that rating
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Yeah but I thought they were like, an end game key? And that Ganon I'm pretty sure is AlttP Ganon and Link, which did have the full triforce, but them getting amped needs to be discussed. Same with SS Link.
Well regardless, everybody agrees with keys being added if they didn't already so it's all good.
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How do they scale?
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- #425
@TentTaku Link went through the 3 areas to gain the tributes of courage, wisdom and power in order to use the triforce properly, then he goes to the final dungeon in the game where the 3 pieces of the triforce was at, and he used it to kill Demise in the present timeline. He doesn’t bring it with him when he time travels in the past to save Zelda from Demise and it stood where the Hylia statue was.
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What happened was Link made a wish to destroy Demise, and the Triforce responded by dropping the Isle of the Goddess on the Imprisoned in the present. After Demise dies Link remains to guard the Triforce, he doesn’t use it at all after killing the Imprisoned in the present.
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- #428
It wasn’t used as an Amp, he literally just wished him dead and Demise died
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Yeah I looked at the cutscene and it doesn’t really offer any information on whether he was amped or not.
But one thing I’m kinda wondering is why are we assuming that The Triforce would suddenly just stop amping the user once it’s complete? Like, we already have numerous examples of the individual pieces amplifying the power of their users, and there’s nothing to really indicate that this process stops once the Triforce becomes complete.
And it’s not like a power amp is contradicted by anything either. We know that when Ganon got the Triforce in the downfall timeline he was basically unbeatable outside of sealing trickery. And the only way he was defeated in A Link to The past was with the combined help of all the sages, the golden master sword, and the silver arrows. Every other time we see the Triforce in use is in a non-combat scenario.
But one thing I’m kinda wondering is why are we assuming that The Triforce would suddenly just stop amping the user once it’s complete? Like, we already have numerous examples of the individual pieces amplifying the power of their users, and there’s nothing to really indicate that this process stops once the Triforce becomes complete.
And it’s not like a power amp is contradicted by anything either. We know that when Ganon got the Triforce in the downfall timeline he was basically unbeatable outside of sealing trickery. And the only way he was defeated in A Link to The past was with the combined help of all the sages, the golden master sword, and the silver arrows. Every other time we see the Triforce in use is in a non-combat scenario.
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The only real time we see an amp by the full Triforce is when the Triforce is physically within the user, to the point that the artifact comes out of the user after they are defeated. In ALTTP it was just…in another room, not with Ganon.
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Tbh I don't think that inherently discredits it, just makes it far more vague and now needing explicit proof it was amping, which I'm not sure there is any, which kinda goes back to it not amping
Which kinda leaves only Sealing War Ganon being amped, who scales to nobody.
And maybe, just maybe, hypothetically speaking, BOTW Zelda. Who doesn't even know how to use the power properly or in full so it wouldn't scale even if she does have it
So literally just one dude who scales to nobody and a headcanon "maybe this person", who wouldnt even scale to it in full and doesn't scale to anybody besides some warriors bullshit. This ain't looking that good lads.
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That "mighty evil" that guides and augments him is Ganon himself.
Not the triforce. (Which is weird given Agnahim=Ganon but like, idk that's funky).
Not the triforce. (Which is weird given Agnahim=Ganon but like, idk that's funky).
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But Ganon=Agnahim is exactly why the augmentation aspect is significant to me. Since they’re literally the same person, the only power that even could be augmenting him is the Triforce. It doesn’t make sense that he would be augmenting himself.
That being said, I’m still scrubbing through all the dialogue in the game. I still think this statement is viable, but I probably shouldn’t push any further until I know if found everything.
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It doesn't make sense, but it be like it do. I'd chalk it up to the person saying that not actually knowing they're one and the same and thus all he can deduce is evil wizard man gets power from magic buff beast man.
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- #436
Wasn't Agahnim possessed by Ganon?
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Nope, he's Ganon's alter-ego.
Hell, his name in japanese literally means "split-soul".
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- #438
I see, also the triforce isn’t stated ever to be evil, it’s a neutral force of power. So the triforce amping him wouldn’t make any sense as the triforce isn’t even an evil force to begin with.
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I mean, it could be considered evil under his possession given it reflects and changes in response to those who wield it. It's not good or evil, but could be considered as such depending on who has it.
Though for that statement in particular, it's talking about Ganon granting power to a wizard, at least from the perspective of a 3rd party. That isn't what's happening but that dude doesn't know the specifics.
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