Lookism Discussion Thread

[Kakistan]

I don't think that was the intended interpretation. It seems more like Goo created an entirely new sword style after meeting Gun, with the 5th Sword simply being the first step beyond the 4th. He never implies that Gun is ONLY at the level of the 5th Sword; rather, he's saying that meeting TUI Gun was the catalyst that pushed him to develop beyond the 4th form.

The rest of the forms were created "for what's to come," suggesting he continued developing his style in anticipation of future battles. That also points toward a stronger Gun (someone we know constantly trains and refines himself, potentially with TUI or even PATH),facing Goo again...

It's pretty evident that the 50th Sword wasn't created because Gun only required the 5th. It was developed as Goo's ultimate trump card, something powerful enough to keep pace with Gun as their rivalry continues to escalate.

Narratively, the two have always been portrayed as rivals, so it makes sense that Goo would have something to rival Gun in some way. Plus,Ptj would never make Goo step far ahead of Gun, it's just not possible atp .

Well while you bring up PTJ not making Goo step too far, isn't that the point of the Prison Training? Inevitably, 50S Goo and TUI (possibly getting willful activation & deactivation like Shingen) Post-Prison Gun will highly likely be rivals again.

So then it's pretty blatant that he would have to be much stronger than HFG TUI Gun, even if Gun was at full health, in order to be rivals with post-Prison Gun.

And we also see this in terms of feats. Both Hwarang Paecheon and TUI Gun dodged the 3rd sword with ease, Paecheon then gets even faster and does something TUI Gun could not do to Goo: AKA blitzing him multiple times mid-air. Feat-wise, Paecheon should be operating faster than TUI Gun, as Goo was able to pull off 0th Sword faster than Gun could attack him (hell, Goo tagged him a few times across the fight), whereas Goo was statue'd by Paecheon.

Then 5th Sword Goo perception blitzes Paecheon from a distance. That showcase alone is more than enough speed to fight TUI Gun as far as we've seen.

Feat-wise, 5S is ridiculously faster than HFG TUI Gun.
Narrative-wise, 50S Goo should be able to match Post-Prison TUI Gun.
Simple enough

 

[Kakistan]

Is there like a reason why no one haven't calculated DG and Gitae's feat yet when they destroyed the church and more like Elite's speed, etc in the flashback?

The church feat has been calculated, it's at 6.05 Tons (High 8-C) and is listed on the verse page.

As for Elite's speed, show some panels as examples

 

[Aksh_sky]

The church feat has been calculated, it's at 6.05 Tons (High 8-C) and is listed on the verse page.

As for Elite's speed, show some panels as examples

And a CGD is in construction for that feat.

 

[Pettam33]

Well while you bring up PTJ not making Goo step too far, isn't that the point of the Prison Training? Inevitably, 50S Goo and TUI (possibly getting willful activation & deactivation like Shingen) Post-Prison Gun will highly likely be rivals again.

So then it's pretty blatant that he would have to be much stronger than HFG TUI Gun, even if Gun was at full health, in order to be rivals with post-Prison Gun.

Yes, W.

And we also see this in terms of feats. Both Hwarang Paecheon and TUI Gun dodged the 3rd sword with ease, Paecheon then gets even faster and does something TUI Gun could not do to Goo: AKA blitzing him multiple times mid-air. Feat-wise, Paecheon should be operating faster than TUI Gun, as Goo was able to pull off 0th Sword faster than Gun could attack him (hell, Goo tagged him a few times across the fight), whereas Goo was statue'd by Paecheon.

Then 5th Sword Goo perception blitzes Paecheon from a distance. That showcase alone is more than enough speed to fight TUI Gun as far as we've seen.

I wouldn't use a fatigued broken down gun to do this. TUi gun was always over goo, a healthy TUI gun would've done infinitely better in their match up. James pretty much implies that the only way Goo would've won was to make fun get weaker and weaker. The same gun who was significantly fatigued to begin with.

Feat-wise, 5S is ridiculously faster than HFG TUI Gun.
Narrative-wise, 50S Goo should be able to match Post-Prison TUI Gun.
Simple enough.

He kind of off guarded patch with that one slash, though I get your point. Otherwise I agree, 50s goo caps at post prison TUI gun level. Also, I personally take 'blitzes' in the verse with a grain of salt.

 

[Pyro9278]

Both Hwarang Paecheon and TUI Gun dodged the 3rd sword with ease, Paecheon then gets even faster and does something TUI Gun could not do to Goo: AKA blitzing him multiple times mid-air. Feat-wise, Paecheon should be operating faster than TUI Gun, as Goo was able to pull off 0th Sword faster than Gun could attack him (hell, Goo tagged him a few times across the fight), whereas Goo was statue'd by Paecheon.

Then 5th Sword Goo perception blitzes Paecheon from a distance. That showcase alone is more than enough speed to fight TUI Gun as far as we've seen.

Feat-wise, 5S is ridiculously faster than HFG TUI Gun.
Narrative-wise, 50S Goo should be able to match Post-Prison TUI Gun.
Simple enough

Goo could have destroyed Paecheon Jo even with 4S. We’ve known this since he started making those "threats" while they were fighting.

Objectively, it makes more sense that Goo was holding back with 4S than to claim that 50S increased his reaction speed. That is also precisely why Paecheon Jo is rated 9-A and doesn't scale to Goo.

 

[Pyro9278]

Goo could have destroyed Paecheon Jo even with 4S. We’ve known this since he started making those "threats" while they were fighting.

Objectively, it makes more sense that Goo was holding back with 4S than to claim that 50S increased his reaction speed. That is also precisely why Paecheon Jo is rated 9-A and doesn't scale to Goo.

So, technically, what Goo did against Paecheon Jo isn't even a feat; it just made it clear how fast he is compared to the others—not to mention his statement about preparing to fight Gun. The real feat lies in the AD and the speed boosters he receives.

 

[Pettam33]

Goo could have destroyed Paecheon Jo even with 4S. We’ve known this since he started making those "threats" while they were fighting.

Objectively, it makes more sense that Goo was holding back with 4S than to claim that 50S increased his reaction speed. That is also precisely why Paecheon Jo is rated 9-A and doesn't scale to Goo.

Hol on... You might be onto something here...

 

[Foriaa]

When are we going to create the scaling lines for both ap and speed, and should we do it here or make a wiki page collaboration thread that isn't the current one since the OP got perm banned

 

[CatLover313]

When are we going to create the scaling lines for both ap and speed, and should we do it here or make a wiki page collaboration thread that isn't the current one since the OP got perm banned

I do plan on remaking (and hopefully finish by the end of the week) the Vasco and Zack Lee profiles. Vasco especially deserves a better profile.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Is there like a reason why no one haven't calculated DG and Gitae's feat yet when they destroyed the church and more like Elite's speed, etc in the flashback?

James and Kitae's feat got cald'd and acceepted as for all the flashback feats

Truth be told we've kind of been free loading off of Viott so if he doesn't calc them no one does

 

[Powerscalingcat]

And a CGD is in construction for that feat.

Wait you're still working on that? How many Tom height inconsistencies are there bro /j

 

[Aksh_sky]

James and Kitae's feat got cald'd and acceepted as for all the flashback feats

Truth be told we've kind of been free loading off of Viott so if he doesn't calc them no one does

Many did gng. The heck u talking about?

I did too and I'm planning to make a cgd against that calc.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Many did gng. The heck u talking about?

I did too and I'm planning to make a cgd against that calc.

I was making a joke dawg lol

If you look at the calc page most of it is Viott lol

 

[Hugoyou03]

Many did gng. The heck u talking about?

I did too and I'm planning to make a cgd against that calc.

This calculation is more reliable than Viott's because it's based on a consistent model of the church, which is especially important given how inconsistent PTJ can be.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MVMRainAngel/Lookism_-_The_power_of_the_first_generation%27s_pinnacle

 

[Kakistan]

Many did gng. The heck u talking about?

I did too and I'm planning to make a cgd against that calc.

Yo it's been 2 goddamn months since the calcs were out, focus on that CGD alone for now

 

[Hugoyou03]

Yo it's been 2 goddamn months since the calcs were out, focus on that CGD alone for now

it could upsale lookism to 8B so it very important

 

[azontr]

do we use path > pathless scaling currently?

 

[Foriaa]

I'm not entirely sure, I think so.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Btw when we getting the LS crt?

For this calc i at first thought nobody has scaling to it but now that i am re-reading Juvenile offender, i remembered that Joochan is a workers executive so he should be executive level and so would his LS be, i think it should be way lower than that Gorilla guy.

But i think it doens't even matter after this calc because ppl with js like S stat or so would easily scale to this, this would include even folks like God Dog arc Johan or so on like Hoster arc people and mainly Olly Wang too via massively upscaling from God Dog Jin Jang who had A stats, who is basically a fodder.

But since ts calc is getting some outlier alligations now (which i think is NOT at all true), therefore i think i also explained that Joochan thingy for consistency or as another meta u could say.

 

[Powerscalingcat]

Btw when we getting the LS crt?

For this calc i at first thought nobody has scaling to it but now that i am re-reading Juvenile offender, i remembered that Joochan is a workers executive so he should be executive level and so would his LS be, i think it should be way lower than that Gorilla guy.

But i think it doens't even matter after this calc because ppl with js like S stat or so would easily scale to this, this would include even folks like God Dog arc Johan or so on like Hoster arc people and mainly Olly Wang too via massively upscaling from God Dog Jin Jang who had A stats, who is basically a fodder.

But since ts calc is getting some outlier alligations now (which i think is NOT at all true), therefore i think i also explained that Joochan thingy for consistency or as another meta u could say.

I haven't read Juvenile offender in a bit and frankly I never want to read it again but it was really mid

But do the workers executive have any actual concrete or even partial scaling to him? We know they tried scouting him for a postion and that he off screened them if I remember correctly with the implication being that the fight was a low diff/no diff (could be wrong its been a while), the workers scouting him doesn't limit his scaling to workers executive level it means he is bare minimum on the level of the workers executives but clearly scales higher, but then we also need to figure out ok workers executive level but which affiliate? Since the affiliates go in order of power

You'd also need to prove that their LS is actually relative, since other stats being relative doesn't mean their LS would be relative

A boxer and a power lifter having the same AP doesn't mean the boxer would have the same LS as the power lifter, that's assuming the workers executives even scale to Joochan stats wise

For the questism thing I've already commented my take on that, also you still haven't told me what you personally consider to be an outlier(genuine question)

 

[Aksh_sky]

I haven't read Juvenile offender in a bit and frankly I never want to read it again but it was really mid

One of the well written ptj manhwa btw. Idk what's wrong genuinely. But sure... opinions.

But do the workers executive have any actual concrete or even partial scaling to him? We know they tried scouting him for a postion and that he off screened them if I remember correctly with the implication being that the fight was a low diff/no diff (could be wrong its been a while), the workers scouting him doesn't limit his scaling to workers executive level it means he is bare minimum on the level of the workers executives but clearly scales higher, but then we also need to figure out ok workers executive level but which affiliate? Since the affiliates go in order of power

Depends on the timeframe this manhwa cannonically took place in Lookism. Yes that dude no-low diffed an executive but he was literally an unnamed dude and a legit fodder with zero importance on Lookism and he wasn't even consider as strong executives in lookism and there were multiple times stated for an executive to be 'our strongest executives' this included 3A executives too so if he wasn't in there, be was most likely a fodder from maybe 4A or idk...depends on the timeframe lwk. The later the weaker since the workers only got weaker over time and I'm talking about the normal folks as the people who DID got stronger are at least slightly relevant to the plot.

You'd also need to prove that their LS is actually relative, since other stats being relative doesn't mean their LS would be relative

It's nothing hard to be proven either. He almost wrestled with Yoonsung which should prove that post Taheoon training Yoonsung should scale to his LS, now Yoonsung pretty easily scaled below Taheoon and Hobin, Taehoon scales to the version of Johan who appeared in MK when he was in white tiger job centre... pretty early I'd say. And that's js narrtive because Changsoo also scales way above Joochan in terms of LS.

Regardless tho, we have clear statements of 'strongest executives' so that should pretty much do the job for LS aswell.

For the questism thing I've already commented my take on that, also you still haven't told me what you personally consider to be an outlier(genuine question)

And I've already negated all such arguements, so the burden is on you to prove how it's an outlier, not me.

But if ur asking for an example then I'd say outlier would be something like the sub relitivistic Johan calc for kid Johan. Because all verses have slight incosnsistencies (which u haven't yet proven regarding LS for Questism as I've already negated all such args) but mods have clearly stated it multiple times that few incosnsistencies in general aren't really a good way disprove calcs in whole or rule it out as outliers.

Exceptions are there for example, Killer Peter being MHS (once used to be but thanks to me it isn't anymore) because charecters there struggled with bullets being fired from 4km away and had stated arrival time of 10 whole seconds which top tiers still considered to be a huge threat JUST because the sniper was skilled. Basically they struggled to dodge bullets from 4km away which only moves at 400 m/s, crazy stuff.

Yet the verse still is supersonic (I'm running a crt already against it because the calcs for supersonic are bad and wanked but I'll remake it because i mistakenly put it into crt category instead of cgd)

Anyways, among all conditions you validly justified none for the calc to be an outlier and your whole arguement relied on calc difference but accepted calc difference of this level or WAYYY higher level has been accepted multiple times without being ruled as 'outliers' in many verses being js called as 'upgrades'.

And regarding ur weight class card arg then I've already explained how additional LS was being applied in every instance as the card also increases physical stats, notably strength stat in general thus increasing both AP and LS simultaneously.

 

[Aksh_sky]

One of the well written ptj manhwa btw. Idk what's wrong genuinely. But sure... opinions.

Depends on the timeframe this manhwa cannonically took place in Lookism. Yes that dude no-low diffed an executive but he was literally an unnamed dude and a legit fodder with zero importance on Lookism and he wasn't even consider as strong executives in lookism and there were multiple times stated for an executive to be 'our strongest executives' this included 3A executives too so if he wasn't in there, be was most likely a fodder from maybe 4A or idk...depends on the timeframe lwk. The later the weaker since the workers only got weaker over time and I'm talking about the normal folks as the people who DID got stronger are at least slightly relevant to the plot.

It's nothing hard to be proven either. He almost wrestled with Yoonsung which should prove that post Taheoon training Yoonsung should scale to his LS, now Yoonsung pretty easily scaled below Taheoon and Hobin, Taehoon scales to the version of Johan who appeared in MK when he was in white tiger job centre... pretty early I'd say. And that's js narrtive because Changsoo also scales way above Joochan in terms of LS.

Regardless tho, we have clear statements of 'strongest executives' so that should pretty much do the job for LS aswell.

And I've already negated all such arguements, so the burden is on you to prove how it's an outlier, not me.

But if ur asking for an example then I'd say outlier would be something like the sub relitivistic Johan calc for kid Johan. Because all verses have slight incosnsistencies (which u haven't yet proven regarding LS for Questism as I've already negated all such args) but mods have clearly stated it multiple times that few incosnsistencies in general aren't really a good way disprove calcs in whole or rule it out as outliers.

Exceptions are there for example, Killer Peter being MHS (once used to be but thanks to me it isn't anymore) because charecters there struggled with bullets being fired from 4km away and had stated arrival time of 10 whole seconds which top tiers still considered to be a huge threat JUST because the sniper was skilled. Basically they struggled to dodge bullets from 4km away which only moves at 400 m/s, crazy stuff.

Yet the verse still is supersonic (I'm running a crt already against it because the calcs for supersonic are bad and wanked but I'll remake it because i mistakenly put it into crt category instead of cgd)

Anyways, among all conditions you validly justified none for the calc to be an outlier and your whole arguement relied on calc difference but accepted calc difference of this level or WAYYY higher level has been accepted multiple times without being ruled as 'outliers' in many verses being js called as 'upgrades'.

And regarding ur weight class card arg then I've already explained how additional LS was being applied in every instance as the card also increases physical stats, notably strength stat in general thus increasing both AP and LS simultaneously.

Also just FYI, my outlier arguement against KP wasn't even my main arguement to begin with as it was just for the consistency because the main purpose was to disprove the calcs that was being overinflated.

So I don't think y'all can js rule something as outliers because that calc is higher than other or so on because that's extremely bad reasoning especially when calcs of higher difference has been accepted numerous times before.

 

[Pyro9278]

For this calc i at first thought nobody has scaling to it but now that i am re-reading Juvenile offender, i remembered that Joochan is a workers executive so he should be executive level and so would his LS be, i think it should be way lower than that Gorilla guy.

Joochan is not from Workers only wears the badge, and even if it were his level is immensely higher than the rank at which it is, objectively there is no indication that he is even so relative to the others in Workers.

In any case, this is just an improvement for the characters of MK, Hit Viral and Juvenile Offender, via Hobin and Taehoon, and Changsu in MK.

But i think it doens't even matter after this calc because ppl with js like S stat or so would easily scale to this, this would include even folks like God Dog arc Johan or so on like Hoster arc people and mainly Olly Wang too via massively upscaling from God Dog Jin Jang who had A stats, who is basically a fodder.

But since ts calc is getting some outlier alligations now (which i think is NOT at all true), therefore i think i also explained that Joochan thingy for consistency or as another meta u could say.

It’s a resounding outlier and as I take from CRT, it shows more. All characters at that level only handle humanly possible weights such as body weight lifting, as is the case of Gu Hajun versus Kim Suhyeon. Anyway, there is another feat of Questism that makes more sense narratively, yet no one has calculated it

Also just FYI, my outlier arguement against KP wasn't even my main arguement to begin with as it was just for the consistency because the main purpose was to disprove the calcs that was being overinflated.

So I don't think y'all can js rule something as outliers because that calc is higher than other or so on because that's extremely bad reasoning especially when calcs of higher difference has been accepted numerous times before.

In the standards of the site, if, when narratively enough is proved that a certain level applies to certain characters, something higher than that would be Outlier. That’s why there was a downgrade of LS from DB (Manga) literally by the staff.

 

[Pyro9278]

So I don't think y'all can js rule something as outliers because that calc is higher than other or so on because that's extremely bad reasoning especially when calcs of higher difference has been accepted numerous times before.

You’re wrong, that’s not even the reasoning being put forward. First, the calculations are certainly subjective, but what matters is the narrative weight in them, and of course the deeds that the author brazenly demonstrates carry more weight than those that were probably unintentional and escape the author’s perspective. In reality, the reasoning is based on the same logic that could be applied to KP, we have precise values indicated narratively by the author as is the weight or the own demonstrations of LS that we later have as that of Kang Seok.

 

[Pyro9278]

do we use path > pathless scaling currently?

I really don’t think that statement is valid anymore. First, it is a misrepresentation of an entirely different context; second, we already have statements that go against it, so having Path is not "Narratively" invincible.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Joochan is not from Workers only wears the badge, and even if it were his level is immensely higher than the rank at which it is, objectively there is no indication that he is even so relative to the others in Workers.

What proves that he isn't from workers? He might join later and also, that person was literally a nameless fodder, who wasn't even shown in the series.

In any case, this is just an improvement for the characters of MK, Hit Viral and Juvenile Offender, via Hobin and Taehoon, and Changsu in MK.

I've already proven how Johan would scale to it and many more. So i don't think so ts point needs to be replied to.

It’s a resounding outlier and as I take from CRT, it shows more. All characters at that level only handle humanly possible weights such as body weight lifting, as is the case of Gu Hajun versus Kim Suhyeon. Anyway, there is another feat of Questism that makes more sense narratively, yet no one has calculated it

Which? And again, I've already explained how outliers works so I don't see any better relevant point being made here to be replied to.

In the standards of the site, if, when narratively enough is proved that a certain level applies to certain characters, something higher than that would be Outlier. That’s why there was a downgrade of LS from DB (Manga) literally by the staff.

Again, I've already proven how it's narritively untrue aswell. Once again, nothing relevant. Also taking that db example nly, Goku struggled to lift a few tons meanwhile kid Goku was lifting around huge pillers.

Incosnsistencies like these doesn't rule feats out as outliers.

You’re wrong, that’s not even the reasoning being put forward. First, the calculations are certainly subjective, but what matters is the narrative weight in them, and of course the deeds that the author brazenly demonstrates carry more weight than those that were probably unintentional and escape the author’s perspective. In reality, the reasoning is based on the same logic that could be applied to KP, we have precise values indicated narratively by the author as is the weight or the own demonstrations of LS that we later have as that of Kang Seok.

Again, I've already explained this how your points doens't directly disproves that LS feat as whole.

We see many anime charecters train with dumbels even though they have like class P or so LS, so unless anything directly contraidicts that he cannot lift such weight at FP, then that doens't negate it.

 

[Aksh_sky]

I really don’t think that statement is valid anymore. First, it is a misrepresentation of an entirely different context; second, we already have statements that go against it, so having Path is not "Narratively" invincible.

Daniel actually lost to Pathless Paecheon, may it be stamina loss or anything but he still lost. That's a fair loss and that alone contraidicts the statement's semantics.