Zelda Stuff (mostly upgrades)

[LordXcano]

@Cal

Obviously it doesn't take Link hours to kill a group of enemies, but using in-game time also gives more realistic values for travel time and other "large scale" events. For example, it taking over a day to reach Hyrule Castle from where you spawn or lightning storms happening every few weeks or so rather than every couple of hours.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

As I said in the blog, I'm okay with assuming the in game time system (24 minutes = 24 hours) is pure gameplay mechanics and cinematic time. If we assume the moon is moving over a period of 20 minutes, then we'll have to assume that the distance of land Link can clear in 20 seconds takes him 20 minutes, which is ridiculous.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Conversely, this would also mean that the map is literally 8 km wide, OoT Hyrule and Termina also being about 2-3 km wide.

But since most people seem to agree with it I probably won't get into too serious of an argument about this.

As I mentioned in the blog nothing is to scale, the timeframe or size of the in game map, as a result its possible that neither is the distance the Moon moved. If we bump the timeframe up there is a good chance the distance the moon traveled would also go up, in turn, making the feat 5-A.

Also I want to see what Azzy thinks but for now im for the upgrade.

 

[Lina_Shields]

And just an hour for Link to cross from one end of the map to another in BotW, which would make said world in Botw a few kilometres in diameter.

Using in-game clock mechanics, in-game = real time would make the length of night just 12 minutes in-game and in real time, which is frankly ridiculous.

Stop dismissing important parts of the game such as the day/night cycle as game mechanics, considering that the length of day/night is actually an integral part of the game, meaning (24 minutes = 24 hours). That's not changing.

 

[Dust_Collector]

In regards to distance, didn't the Hyrule Historia state that Majora was gonna slam the moon into the Earth with the specific spelling they used with the capital E used to refer to our planet instead of the ground? Wouldn't that imply that the planet Zelda takes place on is the same as ours but just in a fantasy setting, meaning the distance of 384400 km should be used instead of the angsized result?

 

[LordXcano]

@Dust

All Zelda games are only a portion of a portion of a continent. Every main series game takes place in a tiny (around 5%) portion of the Hyrule kingdom which itself is just a portion of the Hyrule continent. Majora's Mask (and the map used to scale it) takes place in just a portion of Termina which is just a portion of a larger continent.

 

[Dust_Collector]

But I was talking about the size of the planet not the continents

 

[LordXcano]

Yeah I know. I'm saying if you're talking about the Majora's Mask calc then the map doesn't show the whole planet, so we wouldn't use that. If you're talking about the Moon moving calc for BotW, Termina isn't the same planet as Hyrule.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I thought Majora was accepted as planet level for statements made from the 3DS version and the Hyrule Historia, also Termina was said to be a parallel world to Hyrule so I'd assume the planets would be the same size

Edit: forgot to point out the point I'm trying to make is that if my memory of the Hyrule Historia saying Majora slams the moon into the earth but they used a capital E as is used to refer to our planet, that would mean the planet Termina takes place on should be similar to our own, and since Termina is said to be a parallel world to Hyrule that would mean the planet Hyrule is one should also be similar to ours, moon distance and all

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, the Moon falling in Majora's Mask is currently ranked as, at least Multi-Continent Level, likely Planet Level.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Actually, the Moon falling in Majora's Mask is currently ranked as, at least Multi-Continent Level, likely Planet Level.

The changes were agreed in the other thread. They simply haven't been implemented.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh okay, I haven't seen that thread if someone could link me to it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Here

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should still use real-time for important cutscenes, and real-time events, the day and night cycle of 24 minutes = 24 hours only exists for gameplay purposes.

The Day and Night Cycle is accelerated for the same reason the map is small: Practicality and limitations.

If you think they actually mean anything, you are overthinking and you are wrong.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

Using it for cutscenes that are in real time is obviously fine.

This is not one of those. The blood moon does not move in the actual cutscene. Only in the sped up day/night overworld cycle, hence why the time is being gotten from that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is it done one time during the game, or does it happen with every day/night cycle?

 

[LordXcano]

It's a random event, it can even happen twice in the same night.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I see. I was under impression that this only happens once in-game in a scripted day.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So considering how the calc amounted to basically nothing as base Ganondorf is already Planet while weakened due to Luna's revelation, can we move into speed? I want one good thing to come out of this before I go into my "I can't upgrade verses I like" phase.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm kinda joking w/ that last part

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

I know that feeling bruh, it kinda feels bad... ╠ÂI╠Âf╠ ╠Ât╠Âh╠Âa╠Ât╠ ╠Âm╠Âa╠Âk╠Âe╠Âs╠ ╠Ây╠Âo╠Âu╠ ╠Âh╠Âa╠Âp╠Âp╠Ây╠Â,╠ ╠ÂI╠ ╠Âw╠Âa╠Âs╠ ╠Ât╠Âr╠Ây╠Âi╠Ân╠Âg╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âf╠Âi╠Ân╠Âd╠ ╠Âa╠ ╠Âw╠Âa╠Ây╠ ╠Ât╠Âo╠ ╠Âu╠Âp╠Âg╠Âr╠Âa╠Âd╠Âe╠ ╠ÂG╠Âa╠Âl╠Âa╠Âc╠Ât╠Âa╠ ╠ÂK╠Ân╠Âi╠Âg╠Âh╠Ât╠Â,╠ ╠Âb╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠Âi╠Ât╠ ╠Âm╠Âi╠Âg╠Âh╠Ât╠ ╠Ât╠Âa╠Âk╠Âe╠ ╠Âa╠ ╠Âw╠Âh╠Âi╠Âl╠Âe╠ ╠Â(╠Âb╠Âu╠Ât╠ ╠Âp╠Âr╠Âo╠Âb╠Âa╠Âb╠Âl╠Ây╠ ╠Ân╠Âo╠Âb╠Âo╠Âd╠Ây╠ ╠Âw╠Âi╠Âl╠Âl╠ ╠Âs╠Âc╠Âa╠Âl╠Âe╠ ╠Âw╠Âi╠Ât╠Âh╠ ╠Âh╠Âi╠Âm╠Â)╠ ╠Â.╠ ╠Â

 

[Lina_Shields]

Upgrade for Calamity Ganon stays btw. Now we just need to make sure why Calamity Ganon is rated that way.

According to the calc that I did for Calamity Ganon, I still got Large Planet level because he moved the Moon at MHS+ speeds.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, I'm...yeah. Large Planet for C-Ganon, SS and Composite Link, and Demise. Planetary for anyone else of note. And turns out fodder bosses are Small Island.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I also got Large Planet level (86 Yotta) on my calc on Cal's wall using the timeframe of 3 minutes.

I guess that's enough to support 5-A Ganon. Or should we wait for more feedback?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I approve of 5-A Ganon if both Lina, Dark and Howard do, with revised calcs.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I also got Large Planet level (86 Yotta) on my calc on Cal's wall using the timeframe of 3 minutes.
I guess that's enough to support 5-A Ganon. Or should we wait for more feedback?

Totally fine, assuming this is because of the change to distance and not time of any sort.

 

[LordXcano]

@Azzy It is. I'm fine with Large Planet as well.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

@Azzy It's with the Earth-Moon distance instead of angular scaling distance (seems more accurate) with the accepted timeframes of 2 to 3 minutes, both of which yielded Yottaton grade results.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Dark

So just a change to distance, then. Because I'm fine with that.

Also, if we're using the 5-B calc for WW Ganondorf, we should likely change characters like Majora and Vaati to just straight up 5-B, as well. For instance, Majora already has that "annihilating the world" statement (which would be substantiated by this), and Majora likely scales to Ganon (as opposed to vice versa), since even restricted Majora made a mockery of a Link who had already beaten OOT Ganondorf.

 

[Antvasima]

I am personally fine with Lina's and Azathoth's interpretation of the time span. I am also probably fine with using the real world moon distance for the calculation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This was posted above, but I'll redo it. This is how the scaling works:

Fodder bosses and sages: Small Island (Phantom Hourglass Bomb calc and bombs don't change throughout the games. Beginner bosses can take multiple hits from bombs on the inside [Dodongos, Diababa, Gohdan, Facade, etc] and sages should at the very least be > Dodongos)

Wind Fish and Shadow Nightmares: Island (Wind Fish creates an island. Nuff said)

Majora Bosses: Large Island+ (Goht's feat upon death)

Final Bosses, most Links, penultimate bosses and Midna: Planet (Wind Waker Ganon's feat)

Calamity Ganon, SS and Composite Link, Demise and full Triforce: Large Planet (Lina's version of my calc). Full TF and Composite Link should get an "At least"

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Cal

What was the calc for Goht's feat, again? I think I missed it.

Also, don't forget this makes stuff like the Triforce "At least 5-A" or something along those lines.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

@Azzy

http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blo...s-goht-and-gyorg-****-with-the-climate.20387/

Majora Links profile puts it under his durability for some reason, I'll edit the page to make it more visible.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

My bad. Gyorg is the one with the great feat (Goht's not half bad either). No wonder that mofo killed me over and over.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Man, who knew Gyorg Lopez was so dangerous.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Goht's feat was more like Island level as opposed to Large Island Level+ from Gyorg. But yeah, Gyorg was IMO the most difficult 3D Zelda boss outside of Skyward Sword.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Friggin Gyorg Lopez amirite? Also, cough cough Bongo Bongo cough

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Meh, I found Bongo Bongo to be easy actually; even with three hearts. Then again, I'm pretty hardcore; plus there are tricks to use one him. For example, Biggoron Sword spin attack when he tries to ram into you and immediately bring him to his vulnerable state.

 

[Dust_Collector]

@Cal

The scaling you propsed looks good, but for Majora since its magic easily bypassed the protection of the Triforce of Courage which not even Ganondorfs magic could do and also how casual it's moon drop was I think it [And by extension Fierce Deity Link] should be rated as "at least Planet level" as opposed to just planet level

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

What are we going do about Zelda?