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Zelda: A Link to the Upgrades

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SomebodyData said:
I need to ask, when was it shown to cross dimensions again? It wouldn't happen to be in the very same line that states it transcended time-space right? Because that would be circular reasoning.

No, no I did not. I said every form of media can have hyperbole/manuals are also prone to hyperbole. You're arguing the opposite.

Let me stop you there. What? Reason = space time and Earth? Even in your own quotes:
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Ganon is in the Sacred Realm and laughed. Hyrule is in an another world/dimension, and heard the laugh. The end.

I'm arguing that just because a lot of things in fiction are hyperboles, it doesn't mean this is as well.

Exactly. The reasons of spacetime, not spacetime's reasons. Partitive meaning. Given that we literally see earth getting destroyed in ALBW, there isn't a lot to say about this.
 
The comment you are adressing wasn't even meant for you, I was speaking with Triforce.

My original comment:

"I mean if "reason" in japanese has the same meaning as "law" or something similar like that which includes time, space ect... then that's pretty big. Sadly I can't understand japanese. "

I only added time and space stuff to make my comment clearer. but didnt see your comment. "Law of the world" or something similar pretty much includes concepts like time, space or gravity and I am still confused how you concluded that I equaled law with time.

Also I feel like asking the user who was translating Triforce texts, what he understands from "reason" might clear the picture a bit more.
 
So far i really fail to see why the triforce can't be universal hell either way the trifocre is either going to be low universal or 4-A
 
@Fireblast And triforce was speaking to me with the comment you responded to, so...

As for you adding the time and space stuff later (Which you didn't, I literally posting edit history of you first putting time-space and then removing it.) how does that change anything?

Asking the user could be a good idea, sure.

@Triforce Not what I was asking, but I'm pretty sure it would have been irrelevant anyways.

That's... not what you said? You said "If it's an explanation, it should be somewhat precise", and using that to suggest its not hyperbole. Maybe something got lost in the debate, but what I was saying that it likely is hyperbole, given the context.

That's not partitive meaning. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/partitive And even if it was, that would mean that reason is a part of space time? At that point, its gibberish.
 
If it was partitive meaning, no, it would have to be written as "space-time of reason". (Which like I said, would be gibberish)
 
SomebodyData seems to make sense, but it is still best to get an evaluation from Azathoth.
 
While I may have supported the upgrade initially, SDs arguments against Low 2-C have convinced me otherwise and now I'm also against this.
 
You're both kind of saying the same thing just worded differently and "space-time of reason" would actually be a really bad mistake since it doesn't fit the structure of phrase since thats why that "space and time (space-time) is part of the reason why etc..." makes more sense when you write a story cuz you know its more grammatically correct the way its writing
 
Well the triforce is either going to be 3-A or 4-A any lower than that it would kind of be bs since the sources that TP posted still proves that triforce needs an upgrade plus any other character that had used it
 
Triforce warps the sacred realm, which is the same in size as light world which we know is a universe since it is the main timeline and the goddesses created it. Furthermore even Agahnim's BFR suggest they are spacialy the same, as he merely switched worlds. At this point there is enough evidence to put the triforce at at least 3-A as there is enough evidence to prove that the SR is in fact a universe.
 
I can kinda see where 3-A is coming from with the Light World / Dark World stuff, but where has 4-A been pulled from? The only example I can think of is Vaatis realm, which would be a massive outlier considering he's at best on par with just 1 piece of the Triforce.
 
Im going to say it bluntly but at this point we are pretty much arguing semantics (yes this upgrade will change alot of things i know) i mean we all seem to agree that the TF does have universal feats some of you argues it wouldn't really count as universal feat since how things seems to be worded out to us (the world/universe) but so far the continuity of each translation agrees that all the other different Zelda dimension's are equal in size of hyrule.


and hyrule is stated multiple times to be has big has a universe Princess Hilde, Agahim, Ganon and many more has confirmed this several times and it shouldn't be surprising how the space-time thing could be a feat for the triforce since Zelda in general the whole lore revolves around it many many times link would use the triforce since it is the only source of power that could fix any of the destruction made by the antagonists and when the triforce is not involved link has to travel in time back before shit hits the fan or stop the enemy before they get their hands on it because its GG for him if he fails (has shown in the downfall timeline) so you get the point.


and the triforce only being able to affect a planet is pretty much a low-ball since other zelda character has shown feats higher than the planetary full triforce (Vaati who is considered an outlier) but that argument is pretty much debunked by the fact no mortals or whatever can match the full triforce expect for the true master sword and golden master sword since it was specifically made for that reason.
 
Dust Collector said:
I can kinda see where 3-A is coming from with the Light World / Dark World stuff, but where has 4-A been pulled from? The only example I can think of is Vaatis realm, which would be a massive outlier considering he's at best on par with just 1 piece of the Triforce.
Click to expand...
Vaati being on par with 1 piece of the Triforce is pure headcanon.
 
I vehemently agree with everything SomebodyData has said. He basically argued all of my points, but better. I concede that he is the better debater.


Anyway...

I have a question.

Why are you using the wording of "reasons" in Din's statement and supplementing it into the Deku Tree's wording of the word "reasons"? They are from completely different Zelda games with a different context to them.

The Deku Tree talks about the creation of the world and how from the primordial chaos, the Golden Goddess came down from the Heavens and brought Land, Law, and Life to the world and left the human realm leaving the Triforce as a power source to enforce their laws.

Before the Goddesses, there was no reason, and after the Goddesses came and went with their demiurgic moment, there was reason.

As shown here:

"When there was no reason in the world and life did not yet have form."

"After that, those sacred triangles became the cornerstone for the world's reasons. "


Isn't the Deku Tree likely describing the Law that Nayru bestowed onto the Life that Farore created to live upon the Land that Din forged from her flaming arms?

After the creation of the world, the Triforce was left to maintain the Goddesses reasons, or laws in this connotation, for the newly created world.

Nothing makes this game's context of the word "reasons" about Space-Time.


I never played Oracle of Seasons, so I don't even know the context of Din's statement about "the reasons" or whatever. But I see no reason why it should be used in the Deku Tree's creation of the world speech from Ocarina of Time. Especially when context likely makes the word "reason" have a completely different connotation between games.


"Their mission was to throw the reasons of earth and space-time out of order..."

Also, in my opinion, this sentence makes no sense. What does it even mean? This sounds like a broken sentence that's true meaning is lost in translation without any context to explain what Din is talking about.
 
"The ultimate force that grants wishes to anyone who touches. Triforce is the ultimate force, and Force is the foundation of universal power."

This is a meaningless statement that tells us absolutely nothing about the Triforce's power, safe that it has "absolute power" in the Zelda-verse. Which isn't even true as there are things above it. It's just a NLF unsupported by feats, no different than 99% of "ultimate / infinite power" artifacts in fiction.

Lorule being destroyed is a feat, but the kingdom is literally just a dark mirror to Hyrule. It's not universal in size in any way shape or form. It's just the destruction of a pocket dimension. Nothing more.

"The leader laughed, heard throughout the Hyrule, transcending time and space."

Holy shit, does nobody in this thread understand basic hyperbole and speech? If I say that "In founding the United States, President George Washington's memory transcended space and time", does that mean that the founding father is a universal transcendent being? No, it means that his actions have consequences and reverberations far away and long into the future.

And just because the Triforce can influence time and Ganondorf was heard throughout Hyrule doesn't make him universal either.

Absolutely nothing in this thread proves Low 2-C feats and no upgrades should take place. Even High 4-C is incredibly generous and approaching outlier territory.
 
The way they are using "reason" is pretty much obvious they are talking about the law of the universe and world they live in
 
I disagree with the upgrade too. Like Data said, "universal power" is just as vague of a statement as "universal threat". By that logic, DBZ Frieza and Kid Buu would be 3-A by statement of being a universal threat. Or Firelord Ozai would be 5-B by his statement of "having all the power in the world".
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Cool, on a pocket dimension the size of a country. It's not universal, and even then that's debatable.
Click to expand...
Yah but does pocket dimensions have freaking stars in them and sun's too saying they are a size of a country is ridiculous
 
@Ashen Lorule was never shown to have stars and suns in its realm at all. Nor did the Dark world had any.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Ashen Lorule was never shown to have stars and suns in its realm at all. Nor did the Dark world had any.
Click to expand...
Slight correction, but the Dark World does actually have a sun in it. I can't comment about Lorule tho since I haven't touched ALBW in years.
 
Wait, when was there a sun? Was there some random spot that let you see the entire sky or something?
 
When you stand on top of the Pyramid of Power you can see a sun in the distance. There's a image of it on the Triforces profile in the AP section, linked under "earth to sun distance".
 
Lorule is equal to hyrule and and the dark world is the mirror of the sacred realm and hyrule (again) the distance between the sun and earth was already calc for them. And having a contry size dimension with a sun could be really...dangerous
 
Then the triforce is 4-A with cross-dimensional range and affecting more then one solar system dark world, lorul, sacred realm and hyrule all of these dimension are equal in size
 
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