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Zelda: A Link to the Upgrades

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Ah, I see. Though, would the Light Spirits be any weaker than the Dragon counter parts from Skyward Sword who are 6-A?
 
I agree with Triforce that Demise and Hylia do not scale to the Full Triforce, but rather to the sun feats. The Full Power Master Sword stomped Demise and can harm Ganon with the Full Triforce.
 
I did hear that Link didn't really have the complete Triforce when he fought Demise, and that he actually left it at the temple. If that's true, then for sure, I can agree with Demise remaining High 4-C, but then Link would be High 4-C normally, Low 2-C with the Triforce or something like that.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Ah, I see. Though, would the Light Spirits be any weaker than the Dragon counter parts from Skyward Sword who are 6-A?
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IIrc there's nothing even remotely comparing them.
 
Yeah, ALttP link would be Low 2-C normally, and especially Composite Link, but at the same time, that would also probably mean Master Sword would need True Master Sword and Golden Sword as seperate keys to scale from SS Link and ALttP Link respectively.
 
In terms of pure AP, whether this upgrade goes through or not, ALTTP Link is the strongest one by far, being equal to the True Force without needing to use it himself.
 
It's basically finished, though. We probably just need an another staff member and we're good, if we aren't already.
 
Dark649 commented, but not sure if he said he agreed with Complete Triforce being Tier 2 or not.
 
1. Why would the Goddesses caring more about the Sacred Realm than any other realm mean that it is the same size as other worlds? Not to be corny, but "size doesn't matter". And it doesn't really prove anything, at all. They just care about the Sacred Realm, not that it is necessarily just as big as any other realm in Zelda. It could be as big as any other realm, but nothing you are saying is proof that it is.

2. All those statements make it sound like the Triforce is universal in position, not power. As in it is ubiquitous, and not an object that has universal level power. Which is kinda proven in ALBW were destroying the Triforce would eventually destroy the world. Showcasing that it is like a battery that powers the world. What makes any of these statements showcase that the Triforce has universal level AP?

3. Having a throwaway line in a game manual that mentions "transcending space-time" is rather iffy in my eyes. There are so many examples in fiction where someone is described as "transcending space-time" and it means nothing, I don't really see why it should be seen as anything other than flowery language.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
1. I seriously don't want to argue this. Do as you want.
2.THAT's an AP feat, you know...

3. "nothing you are saying is proof that it is" flowery language.
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1. Fine

2. The Triforce maintaining "the world" is not a universal level feat though. That's like 5-B over an undefinable amount of time.

If you were to interpret all these statements as proof of AP then the Triforce would still only be 3-A, not Low 2-C. All the other universal statements don't mention space-time and therefore could only possibly be considered 3-A. The is the only statement that could be considered Low 2-C is this space-time one.

3. I'm pretty sure the burden of proof is on you to prove that it is a statement one of AP and not one of flowery language.

As an example of how ubiquitous the word transcending is, I give you an example from another franchise.

Look at Bleach, there is a point in the series where one of the main villains undergoes a transformation that transcended every other character species in the series and it was described as the difference between a 2-D creature trying, but obviously failing, to attack a 3-D creature.

No Bleach character is Tier 2 though, it's flowery language and isn't supported by anything else in the series. The same thing is likely here with this as well.
 
Bleach is completely different; "Transcendent" can sometimes refer to relating to the after life rather than Space-Time, while Bleach literally has no feats that feature characters affecting that. Zelda on the other hand is completely different; Time and Space are actually rather big parts of Zelda's lore. Also, Hyrule isn't a planet, it's a realm and contains starry skies and all that jazz.
 
Is it directly stated to be transcedent to space-time or is that an assumption because space and time tend to be big parts of Zelda's lore?
 
1. Context makes it clear that Deku Tree was referring to the universe. He was explaining the origin of the Zelda verse, why would he suddenly cuut out to just a world. The Triforce isn't sustaining the world like NoA generally translate, it is sustaing the "reasons" of the world, which include Space-Time. THIS is the Low 2-C feat. " All the other universal statements don't mention space-time and therefore could only possibly be considered 3-A". There's a reason I've written "The Actual Upgrade" after the reveal of the space-time thing
 
I think the direct quote from the Deku Tree literally elaborated the Triforce transcending Space-Time part.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Bleach is completely different; "Transcendent" can sometimes refer to relating to the after life rather than Space-Time, while Bleach literally has no feats that feature characters affecting that. Zelda on the other hand is completely different; Time and Space are actually rather big parts of Zelda's lore. Also, Hyrule isn't a planet, it's a realm and contains starry skies and all that jazz.
Click to expand...
1. Aizen describes transcendence. And he describes it as:

"When I evolved to a dimension beyond Shinigami. It became impossible for Humans or Shinigami to sense my Reiatsu unless I purposely lowered the level to something they could comprehend, just as a two-dimensional being cannot comprehend a three-dimensional being."

That literally describes dimensional tiering, and no, nothing in Bleach describes transcendence as relating to the afterlife. Where did you get that?

2. Hyrule is a Kingdom, that's on a planet, that exists in the universe. What are you talking about?
 
If such is the case, just post the entire quote, it should defeat the other guy's arguments.
 
Never directly said that wasn't what he was referring to, but in Bleach's case, Dimensional tiering literally is a hyperbole. He's still simply means beyond the Earth/Soul Society Cycle, and there's no proof of Space-Time. And the direct quote for Triforce is there in the links, but it's in Japanese, so Reinhart would need to translate for us. Deku Tree does legit mention Abstract concepts being created the prophecy in OoT.

Note: I'll need to head to work soon, so I'll be able to comment in 9 hours from now.
 
"When I evolved to a dimension beyond Shinigami. It became impossible for Humans or Shinigami to sense my Reiatsu unless I purposely lowered the level to something they could comprehend, just as a two-dimensional being cannot comprehend a three-dimensional being."

You do realizze the guy is just saying that because he's stronger, now people can't feel him anymore, right? This is similar to how a light beam, if it carries enough energy, it becomes ultraviolet and our eyes can't percieve it anymore. This is the same thing.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
"When I evolved to a dimension beyond Shinigami. It became impossible for Humans or Shinigami to sense my Reiatsu unless I purposely lowered the level to something they could comprehend, just as a two-dimensional being cannot comprehend a three-dimensional being."
You do realizze the guy is just saying that because he's stronger, now people can't feel him anymore, right? This is similar to how a light beam, if it carries enough energy, it becomes ultraviolet and our eyes can't percieve it anymore. This is the same thing.
Click to expand...
Aizen is stating that he is so far beyond anything and everyone in Bleach that he is literally incomprehensible to every other character in the franchise and then gave an example of the difference in power that he was referring to, one comparable to that of a dimensional difference.

It's not that he's just beyond their senses like an ultraviolet light is to us.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
1. Context makes it clear that Deku Tree was referring to the universe. He was explaining the origin of the Zelda verse, why would he suddenly cuut out to just a world. The Triforce isn't sustaining the world like NoA generally translate, it is sustaing the "reasons" of the world, which include Space-Time. THIS is the Low 2-C feat. " All the other universal statements don't mention space-time and therefore could only possibly be considered 3-A". There's a reason I've written "The Actual Upgrade" after the reveal of the space-time thing
Click to expand...
Does it?

The scene in Ocarina of Time makes it clear that he's talking about the planet. The video going with the speech is proof enough.


As you initially see nothing, then Din flies by, and then there are bare rocks being pulled together into a planet, then Nayru flies by, and there are a blue clear sky/atmosphere and a sun, then Farore flies by, and there are vegetation and people. Then they leave to return to the Heavens leaving the Triforce when they go.

Obviously, they created the rest of the universe as well, but the scene is clearly just showing the planet's creation.
 
Again, here he's just comparing how normal guys can't comprehend him to not being capable of comprehend higher dimensional things. Key word:Comparing.

Let's stop derailing this thing with Bleach and actually try to discredit the statement. If you can't do that, then you have to accept it.
 
He has been talking about the creation of the Zelda verse the whole time, there's no reason for him to randomly switch to just the planet. Also, if it truly sustained only the planet as you say, Hyrule would have long since being destroyed due to the fact that the Triforce was left in the Sacred Realm.
 
Eh, now I can believe them being higher then High 5-A.

I'll see what'll go down.
 
Really? Okay, I thought there was something I was missing then.

I have to be blunt, but the reasoning here for Low 2-C Triforce is... lacking, to say the least.

Size of the Sacred Realm

How on Earth does size equate to importance?? This sounds like a non-sequitur.

Universal Power

Context is greatly needed here. Being stated to be an "universal power" is no better than being called a universal threat. I will make another point here but it'll only make sense when the other points are crossed.

Another Statement

Was "Force" originally capitalized? Using basic grammar, it sounds more like force refers to, well, force. As in a form of attribute of strength or power.

Lorule's Destruction

First statement explicitly refers the country and world interchangeably.

The Deku Creation myth literally already has the universe existing, and likely the Earth itself (Red Earth can also be used to describe dessert and volcanic areas, by any chance, does Din have a symbolic connection to volcanoes or fire?) And even if it didn't mean that, it would be at best a 5-B feat.

The third statement isn't even a destruction feat? It doesn't state anything about destroying space-time, and if its like how the Earth was being torn asunder, then it definitely wouldn't fall under Low 2-C or even 3-A.

Transcendent Space-Time

Where do I even begin? Now its been a while since I've had to study grammar, but the transcending space-time is referring to the laughter, not Ganon. It is literally proceeded with another description of how loud his laughter is, showing that at this point, grammatically, it is refering to the laugh as a clear hyperbolic description.

@Everyone Am I missing something? Are you sure everything that you guys saw was in the op? I'm having a struggle understanding how there is so many people voting for the upgrade, so I think I'm missing something here.
 
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