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Zelda: A Link to the Upgrades

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1. As I said, I don't care.

2. Reinhardthrowhisspear told me it meant "universal" in a sense of power. It's sometimes used as a synonym of omnipotence, similar to how people outside of this wiki think that universal guys are basically omnipotent.

3. Force was written in Katakana, the equivalent of capitalizing in Japanese.

4.If the universe is going to be destroyed, that means the country is getting destroyed as well, and as the princess of that country, she basically cared only about the latter (obviously that means she had to save the universe as well).

No, Deku Tree's myth specifically talks about the creation of the Zelda verse, that has been accepted already in other threads discussing the stats if the Golden Goddesses. It makes no sense at all for the Triforce to sustain a single planet when they created the universe. Especially if it's sustaining a single planet from an another dimension (plus sustaining that dimension as well, as seen in ALBW).

It's about sustaining Space-Time. Basically the Triforce sustains the reasons, one of the reasons is space-time.

Yes, it's referring to the laughter. And? The laughter WAS heard by Hyrule. Like, that's how they realized someone entered the Sacred Realm. So it's heavily unlikely to be hyperbole

Probably due that I've only kept the essential to avoid derailing, I may have deleted some context thing that are pretty obvious as they're already established plot points, but I guess that made it more difficult for non Zelda fans to understand it.
 
Now i think about it since cia is also getting an upgrade shouldn't fi be upgraded too since well she is the master sword after all.
 
AshenCrow777 said:
Now i think about it since cia is also getting an upgrade shouldn't fi be upgraded too since well she is the master sword after all.
? Fi doesn't scale, unless you mean the golden Master Sword.
 
It would probably be good if somebody asks Azathoth to comment here.
 
So y'all forgetting Triforce warped the sacred Realm? And it's the same in sized as the universe sized main timeline? I'm a little bit lost here what's the problem right now?
 
About the Great Deku Tree statement, it's quite clear that this statement:

"õ©ûÒü½ÒÇÇþÉåÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüÕ梵£¬ÒüáÒÇÇÕ¢óÒü¬ÒüòÒüÜÒÇé

ÔÇ¿When there was no reason in the world and life did not yet have form."

And this one:

"ÒüôÒü«Õ¥îÒÇüÒüØÒü«ÒÇÇÞüûõ©ëÞºÆÒéÆ õ©ûÒü«þÉåÒü«ÒÇÇþñÄÒü¿ÒüÖÒéïÒééÒü«Òü¬ÒéèÒÇé

ÔÇ¿After that, those sacred triangles became the cornerstone for the world's reasons."

Are meant to "oppose" each other.

So unless you want to argue that there was a literal hole in Space-Time inside of an universe, he's clearly stating "world" as in "universe" "primordial water/chaos" commonly used in universe creation myth.

Also, Din's statement isn't the feat. All she says is "the reasons are earth and space-time". It's the Triforce sustaining these reasons the feat. So yes, when The Deku Tree stated "when there was no reason in the world", he meant that space-time wasn't present, was then created by the GGs (this has already been agreed on other threads) and it's then sustained by the Triforce.
 
No, katakana is used for foreign/borrowed words

Oh, sorry, I misread. It's the way it's pronounced in Katakana that indicates that.

"The Universal power thing, I already said that force=Universal power. It's not "force", it's "Force". It's a name of an object not like force of nature. By how they're both pronounced in Katakana."

This is what Rein said.
 
Well, I personally don't mind, but I would prefer to see what Azathoth and SomebodyData say.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
2. Reinhardthrowhisspear told me it meant "universal" in a sense of power. It's sometimes used as a synonym of omnipotence, similar to how people outside of this wiki think that universal guys are basically omnipotent.
Only "omnipotent", nothing about Universal as 3-A or Low 2-C.

Let's slice this. õ©çÞâ¢Òü«Õèø = Universal Power, but why ?

Õèø (Chikara) is power, it's simply (If you watch anime, you hear this all the time ovo).

õ©çÞ⢠(Ban'nō) is the "universal" thing, but why ?

õ©ç means a big number, like ten thousand or something like "myriad", and in some context this can be used as a "everything" meaning. So it's something like "a lot".

Þ⢠(Nō) means ability, talent, skill, capacity. So it's something like "This can do this".

So õ©çÞâ¢Òü«Õèø (Ban'nō no chikara) means "Someone/Something that can do a lot of things" or "Someone/Something that can do everything". So it's just a "omnipotent" thing. Nothing about "universal" as the universe as a whole, but "universal" as "anything" and in this context is the power to do anything. So it's just something like "Triforce is the source to the omnipotent power" and no "Triforce is the source to the power over the universe".
 
Reading through the OP again and not being tried like I was yesterday, along with what others like SD and Executor have said, I'm not as sold on this as I was before. I still think the sustaining the reasons of the world (which includes space-time) and the transcending time and space comment about Ganon obtaining the Triforce could still lead to an upgrade, but for now I'm switching from agreeing to this to being neutral about it.
 
Thank you for the information Executor.
 
We need to be careful on translating this. One simple word can change the meaning of everything.

Also we need a lot of context here before make an upgrade.
 
Has anybody asked Azathoth yet?
 
Regarding the Transcending Space-time part

- Even when taken literally, a laugh transcending space-time is... well... not Low 2-C at all. Especially the context at best means it was heard through all of time space.

- The quote is an obvious hyperbole. Like, in comparison a generic "limitless power" claim looks tame. It would only be comparable if someone said the his/her screams had "limitless power".

I'm not even sure why that's being considered the 'actual upgrade' proof, that's like, the weakest evidence out of everything that's been provided, if it could called be evidence.
 
It still somewhat supports the Triforce being Low 2-C sustaining Space-Time. Making things transcend space-time is generally considered a Low 2-C feat.

Except that limitless power exaggerates on how high something is. Transcending things is generally not used to hyperbole things. As you said, if they wanted to hyperbole it, they would have just said "his laugh has infinite power" or something. The fact that it's seemingly used as a justification of something that DID happen disproves it being hyperbole even more.

The main thing is the Triforce sustaining Spacetime.
 
Making physical things transcend it sure, but laughter? In this context?

Transcending things is definitely used as hyperbole. Not sure where you got that it isn't. I could think of several quotes off the top of my head.

I mean, its in the final part of the op, but I'mma also say more about the sustaining part in a while.
 
What is the japanese translation to Lanayru's statement about Hyrule's creation? Is it the same as the Deku Tree's or is it different?Here is the scene.

World can refer to either the planet or the universe so we gotta make clear on that. Lorule and Deku Tree statement have world in it but it can be understood as both.
 
SomebodyData said:
Making physical things transcend it sure, but laughter? In this context?

Transcending things is definitely used as hyperbole. Not sure where you got that it isn't. I could think of several quotes off the top of my head.

I mean, its in the final part of the op, but I'mma also say more about the sustaining part in a while.
Laughter still needs matter to conduct through, though.

I just meant it's less used than unlimited power. But an hyperbole in an explanation? That's just extremely unlikely.
 
Matter is part of space, ie the very thing you're saying it literally transcends. So that's not much an argument without denying your own premise.

No, that's also happened before. If anything, that's where most hyperbole comes from, in attempts of explaining something to the audience/characters.
 
Fireblast966 said:
What is the japanese translation to Lanayru's statement about Hyrule's creation? Is it the same as the Deku Tree's or is it different?Here is the scene.

World can refer to either the planet or the universe so we gotta make clear on that. Lorule and Deku Tree statement have world in it but it can be understood as both.
It's basically the same but less detailed, as the main focus was the Twilight war.
 
SomebodyData said:
Matter is part of space, ie the very thing you're saying it literally transcends. So that's not much an argument without denying your own premise.

No, that's also happened before. If anything, that's where most hyperbole comes from, in attempts of explaining something to the audience/characters.
I meant that the TF transcended the matter in which the laughter "was in". Otherwise the laughter couldn't have been heard by Hyrule.

If it's an explanation, it should be somewhat precise. Most likely what you're calling "Hyperbole" is just an outlier. Or an explanation done by a character that uses hyperbole as he hasn't well understood the power of a character. This is neither.
 
Did everyone in Hyrule even hear it? Regardless, what? Laughter can still be transmitted through the air and heard by the entirity of Hyrule.

Yes, somewhat precise is correct. But that's the keyword, "somewhat". Manuals are prone to hyperbole too...
 
SomebodyData said:
Did everyone in Hyrule even hear it? Regardless, what? Laughter can still be transmitted through the air and heard by the entirity of Hyrule.

Yes, somewhat precise is correct. But that's the keyword, "somewhat". Manuals are prone to hyperbole too...
We know it reached there, but it doesn't expand a lot on that. Air is still made of matter. The laughter started from the Sacred Realm, a parallel world, and it was heard by Hyrule. So something transcending spacetime to cross the "space" between them makes sense.

From certain point of views every form of media contains hyperboles. You have to prove this is.
 
Does the "reason" that was translated from the Deku Tree's statement, mean the same as the english versions "Before time began, before spirits and life existed..."? If yes, I might agree with this.

Because creating and sustaining concepts like time, do feel like universal level to me though I am not the one who is going to decide this anyway.
 
Fireblast966 said:
Does the "reason" that was translated from the Deku Tree's statement, mean the same as the english versions "Before time began, before spirits and life existed..."? If yes, I might agree with this.

Because creating and sustaining concepts like time, do feel like universal level to me though I am not the one who is going to decide this anyway.
Kinda. Deku tree mentions that there was no reason, which would include the reason of Spacetime like Din stated. Time not only didn't begun, it didn't even exist in the first place.
 
Hyperbole is excess caused for making something sound greater or worse than it actually is. Saying that his laughter of all things, transcends time and space is exactly that.

Yes. Every form of media can contain hyperbole. Why on Earth are you saying it as if that's not a thing?

How on Earth did you get that no reason = no spacetime????
 
I mean if "reason" in japanese has the same meaning as "law" or something similar that can mean "law of the world" then that's pretty big. Sadly I can't understand japanese.
 
law =/= space time either.

That entire thing is a massive jump in logic.

I don't want to get hostile, but the more I argue this, the more it sounds like most of the supporters of the upgrade either jumped the gun or didn't actually read the op.
 
SomebodyData said:
Hyperbole is excess caused for making something sound greater or worse than it actually is. Saying that his laughter of all things, transcends time and space is exactly that.

Yes. Every form of media can contain hyperbole. Why on Earth are you saying it as if that's not a thing?

How on Earth did you get that no reason = no spacetime????
That same laughter also crossed between dimensions. Transcending Spacetime is just how it did it. Nintendo is surely strange for that, but overall it makes sense, especially since it's mainly just a supporting thing.

Because you actually argumented that.

Because the Reasons of the Zelda verse are earth and SPACETIME, meaning that Space time is a Reason.
 
@SD Okay man, please properly read my comments. I asked questions first and depending on how the answers turned out to be, I was deciding on agreeing with this or not. I was going to be neutral on Triforce other statements like the laughter thing.

Btw, my comment above wasn't directed at you. Also I didn't literally mean "law", I meant something similar to "law of the universe" or something similar kind of deal which includes concepts like time. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that I equaled "law" with "time."
 
I need to ask, when was it shown to cross dimensions again? It wouldn't happen to be in the very same line that states it transcended time-space right? Because that would be circular reasoning.

No, no I did not. I said every form of media can have hyperbole/manuals are also prone to hyperbole. You're arguing the opposite.

Let me stop you there. What? Reason = space time and Earth? Even in your own quotes:

Their mission was to throw the reasons of earth and space-time out of order...
It depicts, that the Earth and space-time, have reasons, not are reasons.
 
i mean ganondorf after touching the triforce he started laughing and it was heard through out space and time from the sacred realm all the way to hyrule and remember after the king heard and later confirmed it with the sages thats when they decide to seal it and the only way to get to the SR universe is via dimension traveling unless the sr and hyrule is in the same world its pretty obvious it crossed space and time but only after touching the triforce
 
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