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Zamasu and his bad AE

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ArmBill said:
Iirc the way it got accepted (abstract concept stuff), was through other information that did mention ideas or stuff akin to that. It should be on the profile.
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Yes, it's right here in these comments, where it was translated and indeed Zamasu was that.

vsbattles.com

Dragon Ball Super Anime - Zeno and Zamasu Ability

In the Brazilian translation it is said that Zamasu becoming the concept of justice and order Tradução: And it is trying to become the very concept of justice and order. Well here it is also quoted being order and justice too Here it is literally said that he became an idea It was...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/post-5190471

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/post-5253962





https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/
post-5382084
 
Honestly, ever since the conceptual manipulation page got rid of ideas as concepts we should have created a separate page for idea manipulation or at least mentioned it on the mind manipulation page somewhere.

Because now we just have a power which is still technically a power but can't be mentioned in P&A because of its removal from Conceptual manipulation. Aside from just Zamasu and his embodiment stuff.
 
Damn, son! You blow in from the OBD like I did?

Anyway, I agree with this. Even if Luffy is right about the Brazilian Portuguese translation being word for word from the Japanese original, the thing about kanji is you really have to look into the context of the kanji in order to understand it. It isn't straightforward as you think it is; the very least you have to worry about are the On'yomi and Kun'yomi readings.

Plus let's be real, Brazilian Portuguese is to Portuguese like American English is to English; it's not gonna make sense in the country the language came from.
 
YungManzi said:
Honestly, ever since the conceptual manipulation page got rid of ideas as concepts we should have created a separate page for idea manipulation or at least mentioned it on the mind manipulation page somewhere.

Because now we just have a power which is still technically a power but can't be mentioned in P&A because of its removal from Conceptual manipulation. Aside from just Zamasu and his embodiment stuff.
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You can do a CRT analyzing the idea of "Idea Manipulation," but I'd leave it open to interpretation so Staff can work out what's best.
 
Flashlight237 said:
Damn, son! You blow in from the OBD like I did?

Anyway, I agree with this. Even if Luffy is right about the Brazilian Portuguese translation being word for word from the Japanese original, the thing about kanji is you really have to look into the context of the kanji in order to understand it. It isn't straightforward as you think it is; the very least you have to worry about are the On'yomi and Kun'yomi readings.

Plus let's be real, Brazilian Portuguese is to Portuguese like American English is to English; it's not gonna make sense in the country the language came from.
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You have no idea, here we still call beerus bills and hit hitto in the subs lol
 
Thelastmlg said:
yes but where does he actually become the idea of justice? that's what seems to be missing here
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When he becomes Infinite Zamasu

also you seem to be ignoring it so ima just copy and paste what it says
As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv This scan supports all the above scans about Infinite Zamasu being an abstract existence, the very ideas/concepts of justice and order of the universe itself
Dragon Ball (Game) Xenoverse takes this even further, as Fu, one of the smartest characters in the verse literally states that Ideals and Justice are too Abstract, which is directly referring to Infinite Zamasu As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv
 
godofice said:
When he becomes Infinite Zamasu

also you seem to be ignoring it so ima just copy and paste what it says
As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv This scan supports all the above scans about Infinite Zamasu being an abstract existence, the very ideas/concepts of justice and order of the universe itself
Click to expand...
the time nest scan doesn't support that tho?

godofice said:
Dragon Ball (Game) Xenoverse takes this even further, as Fu, one of the smartest characters in the verse literally states that Ideals and Justice are too Abstract, which is directly referring to Infinite Zamasu
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proof that it is reffering to infinite zamasu instead of just being fu not liking abstract stuff per his personality?

godofice said:
As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv
Click to expand...
again, the time nest proves nothing
 
omegabronic said:
the time nest scan doesn't support that tho?


proof that it is reffering to infinite zamasu instead of just being fu not liking abstract stuff per his personality?


again, the time nest proves nothing
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You aren’t reading what I’m saying I literally said that the time nest scan comes after that statement of the goku black saga where Fu is referencing Zamasu so time nest does prove something and Zamasu becoming the ideas of justice is something said similarly in the anime so it’s not far off it’s just more consistent In Xenoverse
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I am neutral, I think it really depends on the interpretation of the translation. But Viethai has generally tend to be reliable iirc.
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i still want to hear vietthai’s opinions on this but his timezone is kinda weird so he won’t respond until like probably 3-4 hours from now which I’ve usually noticed
 
why is "I am going to become justice and order :eek:" being interpreted as this:

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.



???????
 
Bernkastelll said:
why is "I am going to become justice and order :eek:" being interpreted as this:

1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.



???????
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I don’t think it is it’s being viewed as this
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.

But it’s being argued if he embodies a concept or not
 
godofice said:
You aren’t reading what I’m saying I literally said that the time nest scan comes after that statement of the goku black saga where Fu is referencing Zamasu so time nest does prove something
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fu was not referencing zamasu tho? he was talking about how ideals and justice are too abstract for his liking, he was not talking about zamasu, and even then the time nest scene proves nothing about him becoming a concept or not, seriosly can you please explain how does the time nest thing proves anything at all?

godofice said:
and Zamasu becoming the ideas of justice is something said similarly in the anime so it’s not far off it’s just more consistent In Xenoverse
Click to expand...
not really? i don't see much difference between the two

godofice said:
i still want to hear vietthai’s opinions on this but his timezone is kinda weird so he won’t respond until like probably 3-4 hours from now which I’ve usually noticed
Click to expand...
that is fine, there is no need to rush at all

godofice said:
Also is being the idea of something not imply concept anymore? I always thought it did but I could be wrong
Click to expand...
apparently not anymore
 
omegabronic said:
fu was not referencing zamasu tho? he was talking about how ideals and justice are too abstract for his liking, he was not talking about zamasu, and even then the time nest scene proves nothing about him becoming a concept or not, seriosly can you please explain how does the time nest thing proves anything at all?

He was referring to Zamasu in that context and it legit shows the Goku Black arc and the time nest scene comes after
omegabronic said:
not really? i don't see much difference between the two


that is fine, there is no need to rush at all
Click to expand...
The only difference really is that it’s stated in one source whereas for the anime it says he’s becoming justice and order and guides support this saying he’s becoming an idea or will which shows abstraction and conceptual (atleast used to but it seems that got changed)
omegabronic said:
apparently not anymore
Click to expand...
If ideas don’t mean concepts on the wiki anymore then fair enough
Click to expand...
 
what is the evidence that he is refering to zamasu/infinite zamasu? and again what does the time nest prove exactly? could you be more clear?
also if you concede on the idea=/=concept anymore on the wiki, then you agree with the op now?
 
omegabronic said:
what is the evidence that he is refering to zamasu/infinite zamasu? and again what does the time nest prove exactly? could you be more clear?
also if you concede on the idea=/=concept anymore on the wiki, then you agree with the op now?
Click to expand...
The evidence is that the the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest is shown and the Ideals and Law is referring to Zamasu

Im not 100% sure if that’s true but if it is I agree but for now I’m neutral
 
godofice said:
Well it’s heavily implied and he’s shown shortly after that’s said along with the fact that the anime says he is trying to become Justice itself so it’s pretty consistent
Click to expand...
That's not proof at all though. "Heavy implication" is just that, implication.
 
Pretty straightforward, agreed.

You need some very blatant proof of embodying a said concept, and zamasu doesn't embody "justice" itself i didn't even know this got accepted in the first place, you could see it more like him saying that he's justice metaphorically, not literally.
 
How the hell did this turn in a DBH discussion lmfao.

And no, that seems more Fuu complaining about the concepts being too abstract, not Zamasu embodying those.

I've played that DLC myself and idk how tf did y'all reach that conclusion.
 
God900 said:
̶B̶r̶o̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶O̶T̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶X̶e̶n̶o̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶2̶ ̶ ̶I̶M̶A̶O̶ ̶X̶D̶.̶
Click to expand...
There's CTRL + S if you want to do it like this for one.

Second, Fuu clearly was not refering to Infinite Zamasu in that scan.

Third, y'all kept saying they destroyed the CoT in XV1.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Second, Fuu clearly was not refering to Infinite Zamasu in that scan.

Third, y'all kept saying they destroyed the CoT in XV1.
Click to expand...
Well, those guys clearly haven't played the game, becouse it appears on XV2 aswell, in the infinite history DLC, and I think earlier.

It's possible the COT reconstructed on it's own or whatnot, we don't know, but it should have been repaired in someway.
 
Honestly, before Vietthai came, the cause of IZ became a concept, I think he should still have it now. Not because of the translation (ah sometimes) but for what he shows in the movie

I'll ignore the Brazilian translations for now. Because it looks really illegal and weird

I. THE TRANSLATION
"トランクスに切り裂かれた合体ザマスだったが、その念は空へと舞い上がり地球全体を包み込んだ"
The Kanji in the above line is "念", which means wish, sense, idea, thought, feeling, desire, attention
The Kanji "想" also has the same meaning as "念", which means concept, think, idea, thought
So...both can be understood in the same mean, is "idea"
I agree with you that "ideas" are not always "concepts". But according to the context when IZ became like that, and also the ideals of Zamasu's life as a god. I think, "idea" in context is talking about Zamasu trying to be the very concept of justice. I will prove it

II. ZAMASU'S IDEA BEFORE BECOMING ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE
1. Zamasu easily made his emotions/thoughts into "real", so in the final form, it must also be something more abstract.

Scan:

In 3:48
Gowasu: That is Zamasu's complex emotions made real

And at the same time, Zamasu gave off a large Ki aura, which also included his thoughts (in DBV there are cases where it is possible to read other people's minds just by sensing their Ki)
Emotions(feeling/desire/attention) Thoughts(sense/wish)
So to realize his ideal quickly, the only way is for him to become the ideal himself

2. Personality of Zamasu
Zamasu throughout the series has always talked about his ideals, the ideals of justice and order, he rummaged through many different timelines just to prove his justice.

He is disgusted with the living universe of humans and will destroy it as stated in the manga, he is also disgusted with the existence of the living universe in the anime so he becomes the universe itself to destroy them
A similar motif is extended to his ideal, he succeeds in showing people hate and hatred, showing people his own emotions and thoughts. So in the end he will become those very ideas
 
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