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Well, the op showed that the kanji for concept is not there
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Zamasu and his bad AE
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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- Status
Well, the op showed that the kanji for concept is not there
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Iirc the way it got accepted (abstract concept stuff), was through other information that did mention ideas or stuff akin to that. It should be on the profile.
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Yes, it's right here in these comments, where it was translated and indeed Zamasu was that.
Dragon Ball Super Anime - Zeno and Zamasu Ability
In the Brazilian translation it is said that Zamasu becoming the concept of justice and order Tradução: And it is trying to become the very concept of justice and order. Well here it is also quoted being order and justice too Here it is literally said that he became an idea It was...
https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/post-5190471
https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/post-5253962
https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-anime-zeno-and-zamasu-ability.144050/
post-5382084
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Honestly, ever since the conceptual manipulation page got rid of ideas as concepts we should have created a separate page for idea manipulation or at least mentioned it on the mind manipulation page somewhere.
Because now we just have a power which is still technically a power but can't be mentioned in P&A because of its removal from Conceptual manipulation. Aside from just Zamasu and his embodiment stuff.
Because now we just have a power which is still technically a power but can't be mentioned in P&A because of its removal from Conceptual manipulation. Aside from just Zamasu and his embodiment stuff.
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Damn, son! You blow in from the OBD like I did?
Anyway, I agree with this. Even if Luffy is right about the Brazilian Portuguese translation being word for word from the Japanese original, the thing about kanji is you really have to look into the context of the kanji in order to understand it. It isn't straightforward as you think it is; the very least you have to worry about are the On'yomi and Kun'yomi readings.
Plus let's be real, Brazilian Portuguese is to Portuguese like American English is to English; it's not gonna make sense in the country the language came from.
Anyway, I agree with this. Even if Luffy is right about the Brazilian Portuguese translation being word for word from the Japanese original, the thing about kanji is you really have to look into the context of the kanji in order to understand it. It isn't straightforward as you think it is; the very least you have to worry about are the On'yomi and Kun'yomi readings.
Plus let's be real, Brazilian Portuguese is to Portuguese like American English is to English; it's not gonna make sense in the country the language came from.
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You can do a CRT analyzing the idea of "Idea Manipulation," but I'd leave it open to interpretation so Staff can work out what's best.
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You have no idea, here we still call beerus bills and hit hitto in the subs lol
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agree
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When he becomes Infinite Zamasu
also you seem to be ignoring it so ima just copy and paste what it says
As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv This scan supports all the above scans about Infinite Zamasu being an abstract existence, the very ideas/concepts of justice and order of the universe itself
Dragon Ball (Game) Xenoverse takes this even further, as Fu, one of the smartest characters in the verse literally states that Ideals and Justice are too Abstract, which is directly referring to Infinite Zamasu As you can see, the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story, with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu, and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest which is in this scan: https://imgur.com/a/rbndGkv
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the time nest scan doesn't support that tho?
proof that it is reffering to infinite zamasu instead of just being fu not liking abstract stuff per his personality?
again, the time nest proves nothing
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I am neutral, I think it really depends on the interpretation of the translation. But Viethai has generally tend to be reliable iirc.
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You aren’t reading what I’m saying I literally said that the time nest scan comes after that statement of the goku black saga where Fu is referencing Zamasu so time nest does prove something and Zamasu becoming the ideas of justice is something said similarly in the anime so it’s not far off it’s just more consistent In Xenoverse
i still want to hear vietthai’s opinions on this but his timezone is kinda weird so he won’t respond until like probably 3-4 hours from now which I’ve usually noticed
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Also is being the idea of something not imply concept anymore? I always thought it did but I could be wrong
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why is "I am going to become justice and order 
" being interpreted as this:
1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
???????
" being interpreted as this:1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
???????
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I don’t think it is it’s being viewed as thiswhy is "I am going to become justice and order
1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
???????
Type 1: Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars.
But it’s being argued if he embodies a concept or not
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fu was not referencing zamasu tho? he was talking about how ideals and justice are too abstract for his liking, he was not talking about zamasu, and even then the time nest scene proves nothing about him becoming a concept or not, seriosly can you please explain how does the time nest thing proves anything at all?
not really? i don't see much difference between the two
that is fine, there is no need to rush at all
apparently not anymore
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what is the evidence that he is refering to zamasu/infinite zamasu? and again what does the time nest prove exactly? could you be more clear?
also if you concede on the idea=/=concept anymore on the wiki, then you agree with the op now?
also if you concede on the idea=/=concept anymore on the wiki, then you agree with the op now?
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The evidence is that the the scene above is the Future Trunks/Goku Black Saga from DBS adapted into Xenoverse's story with SSR Goku Black and then Fused Zamasu and later Infinite Zamasu who then even breached into the Time Nest is shown and the Ideals and Law is referring to Zamasu
Im not 100% sure if that’s true but if it is I agree but for now I’m neutral
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what is the evidence for this tho? that part is where i am confused
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Well it’s heavily implied and he’s shown shortly after that’s said along with the fact that the anime says he is trying to become Justice itself so it’s pretty consistent
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That's not proof at all though. "Heavy implication" is just that, implication.
Hellscream
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Pretty straightforward, agreed.
You need some very blatant proof of embodying a said concept, and zamasu doesn't embody "justice" itself i didn't even know this got accepted in the first place, you could see it more like him saying that he's justice metaphorically, not literally.
You need some very blatant proof of embodying a said concept, and zamasu doesn't embody "justice" itself i didn't even know this got accepted in the first place, you could see it more like him saying that he's justice metaphorically, not literally.
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- Thread starter
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How the hell did this turn in a DBH discussion lmfao.
And no, that seems more Fuu complaining about the concepts being too abstract, not Zamasu embodying those.
I've played that DLC myself and idk how tf did y'all reach that conclusion.
And no, that seems more Fuu complaining about the concepts being too abstract, not Zamasu embodying those.
I've played that DLC myself and idk how tf did y'all reach that conclusion.
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̶B̶r̶o̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶C̶O̶T̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶e̶x̶i̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶X̶e̶n̶o̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶2̶ ̶ ̶I̶M̶A̶O̶ ̶X̶D̶.̶
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- Thread starter
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There's CTRL + S if you want to do it
Second, Fuu clearly was not refering to Infinite Zamasu in that scan.
Third, y'all kept saying they destroyed the CoT in XV1.
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Well, those guys clearly haven't played the game, becouse it appears on XV2 aswell, in the infinite history DLC, and I think earlier.
It's possible the COT reconstructed on it's own or whatnot, we don't know, but it should have been repaired in someway.
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Sorry to crush your dreams but...
This is his translation, correct?
Because it does not contradict anything of what I said, the kanji for idea is nonexistent in the anime as well.
And since when ideas are concepts anyway.
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Isn't that in the Official DBS Blu-ray Disc Artbook?
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In the English translation it also says "ideas", that is, there is nothing wrong here, ideas and concepts are all the same in Japanese, described by @Vietthai96, I think he should leave it to those who really understand Japanese before trying to downgrade something.
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I talk about the anime dialogue lmao.
And besides, y'all are taking that statement out of context.
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Proof?
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The scan is there to prove it, see for yourself.
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Words of a random mean nothing. I want an actual reliable source for that, not a wanker's lies on the langauge without backing.
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@Vietthai96 Coming soon, but why are you treating me so bad?
NiniAtheist2005
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Honestly, before Vietthai came, the cause of IZ became a concept, I think he should still have it now. Not because of the translation (ah sometimes) but for what he shows in the movie
I'll ignore the Brazilian translations for now. Because it looks really illegal and weird
I. THE TRANSLATION
"トランクスに切り裂かれた合体ザマスだったが、その念は空へと舞い上がり地球全体を包み込んだ"
The Kanji in the above line is "念", which means wish, sense, idea, thought, feeling, desire, attention
The Kanji "想" also has the same meaning as "念", which means concept, think, idea, thought
So...both can be understood in the same mean, is "idea"
I agree with you that "ideas" are not always "concepts". But according to the context when IZ became like that, and also the ideals of Zamasu's life as a god. I think, "idea" in context is talking about Zamasu trying to be the very concept of justice. I will prove it
II. ZAMASU'S IDEA BEFORE BECOMING ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE
1. Zamasu easily made his emotions/thoughts into "real", so in the final form, it must also be something more abstract.
Scan:
In 3:48
Gowasu: That is Zamasu's complex emotions made real
And at the same time, Zamasu gave off a large Ki aura, which also included his thoughts (in DBV there are cases where it is possible to read other people's minds just by sensing their Ki)
Emotions(feeling/desire/attention) Thoughts(sense/wish)
So to realize his ideal quickly, the only way is for him to become the ideal himself
2. Personality of Zamasu
Zamasu throughout the series has always talked about his ideals, the ideals of justice and order, he rummaged through many different timelines just to prove his justice.
He is disgusted with the living universe of humans and will destroy it as stated in the manga, he is also disgusted with the existence of the living universe in the anime so he becomes the universe itself to destroy them
A similar motif is extended to his ideal, he succeeds in showing people hate and hatred, showing people his own emotions and thoughts. So in the end he will become those very ideas
I'll ignore the Brazilian translations for now. Because it looks really illegal and weird
I. THE TRANSLATION
"トランクスに切り裂かれた合体ザマスだったが、その念は空へと舞い上がり地球全体を包み込んだ"
The Kanji in the above line is "念", which means wish, sense, idea, thought, feeling, desire, attention
The Kanji "想" also has the same meaning as "念", which means concept, think, idea, thought
So...both can be understood in the same mean, is "idea"
I agree with you that "ideas" are not always "concepts". But according to the context when IZ became like that, and also the ideals of Zamasu's life as a god. I think, "idea" in context is talking about Zamasu trying to be the very concept of justice. I will prove it
II. ZAMASU'S IDEA BEFORE BECOMING ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE
1. Zamasu easily made his emotions/thoughts into "real", so in the final form, it must also be something more abstract.
Scan:
In 3:48
Gowasu: That is Zamasu's complex emotions made real
And at the same time, Zamasu gave off a large Ki aura, which also included his thoughts (in DBV there are cases where it is possible to read other people's minds just by sensing their Ki)
Emotions(feeling/desire/attention) Thoughts(sense/wish)
So to realize his ideal quickly, the only way is for him to become the ideal himself
2. Personality of Zamasu
Zamasu throughout the series has always talked about his ideals, the ideals of justice and order, he rummaged through many different timelines just to prove his justice.
He is disgusted with the living universe of humans and will destroy it as stated in the manga, he is also disgusted with the existence of the living universe in the anime so he becomes the universe itself to destroy them
A similar motif is extended to his ideal, he succeeds in showing people hate and hatred, showing people his own emotions and thoughts. So in the end he will become those very ideas
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