Yukari & Reimu possible upgrades & revisions

[Magi_Hussie]

1. Nothing supports it.
2. Superhuman intelligence is meaningless. Everything in her intelligence description is a vastly better description than that could ever be and makes it very clear.

1. Yukari is considered to be superior to all 5-A beings in Genosokyo which would give her an "At least 5-A" rating and Science Manipulation involving Yukari to affect the laws of Gensokyo and it would also affect space-time as well which should receive a "far higher" rating & generosity for that part.

2. "Intelligence: SuperHuman; able to do complex calculations with 1000 variables in seconds. Her Shikigami, Ran, was able to create a mathematical formula to ascertain the width of the ever-changing Sanzu River and stated, that if it were Yukari, she could also include the depth of it. Yukari is often well-informed of the major events occurring in Gensokyo and in many cases, was the mastermind of many of these events in some shape or form. She was even able to outwit Eiri, a genius even among geniuses, at some point."


Its not hard and Superhuman is a shorter term than "Very intelligent," so yea.


Edit: The link may not work properly, so I'm gonna fix that.

 

[Promestein]

1. Nah, 5-A's fine for that. Manipulating space-time on such a small scale isn't any higher.

2. Superhuman is just really vague.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Promestein

1. How? "At least 5-A" is more preferred for Yukari and how would that be a small-scale space-time manipulation btw?


2. Superhuman or Supergenius still works either way.

 

[Promestein]

Its on the scale of an island.

Supergenius does not, that's reserved for people with more bullshit and Yukari simply hasn't demonstrated the intelligence for that. I can list that Akyuu called her intelligence superhuman.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Its on the scale of an island.
Supergenius does not, that's reserved for people with more bullshit and Yukari simply hasn't demonstrated the intelligence for that. I can list that Akyuu called her intelligence superhuman.

1. Genosokyo is the size of a country not an island.

2. You do have a point, Supergenius would be "vastly superhuman," so the most specific one would be Extraordinary Genius then and yes, there's proof of that too.

 

[Promestein]

That absolutely doesn't change anything.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

That absolutely doesn't change anything.

That doesn't make sense and it would actually.

 

[Promestein]

It doesn't. Manipulating space-time on such a small scale isn't higher than Large Planet level.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

It doesn't. Manipulating space-time on such a small scale isn't higher than Large Planet level.

Ok, so I guess the "far higher" rating will not be needed.


The only things left are the:

-"At least 5-A" AP rating

-Yukari's Extraordinary Genius intellect upgrade

-High-level Science Manipulation only as a power & ability.

 

[ALRF]

1.No, she will stay 5-A that's all.

2.Already said why it's useless.

3.um what? besides it's already under her Boundary Manipulation.

 

[Promestein]

- Get someone else's opinion.

- Her intelligence is fine as it is.

- You know, I don't think anyone actually agreed on Science Manipulation.

 

[PaChi2]

Guys, Im not gonna be that guy, but if Yukari receives tier 2 for creating a country-sized pocket dimension, my boy Goku and vegeta are waiting for Low 2-C.

Of course, this is sarcasm.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

1.No, she will stay 5-A that's all.
2.Already said why it's useless.

3.um what? besides it's already under her Boundary Manipulation.

1. The "At least 5-A" rating stays and tell me if any other 5-A tier inhabitants from Genosokyo who has defeated Yukari before & w/o her holding back on them before disagreeing next time.

2. Once again, its an intelligence upgrade & there are already explicit evidence shown for you. Also, not to be pushy or anything but you need to get over it.

3. Science Manipulation is a separate superpower from Boundary Manipulation, not a sub-power.

 

[ALRF]

1.Give me one reason as to why we should insert "At least 5-A" rating? What's the reason? Being superior to other Gensokyo inhabitans? that just means she is on the higher end of 5-A.

2.If anyone it's you who need to get over it when we got a better thing covered (being her feats), but oh well.

3.Even if you wanted to convince us of this, that wouldn't be even Science Manipulation, that would be Matter Manipulation.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

1.Give me one reason as to why we should insert "At least 5-A" rating? What's the reason? Being superior to other Gensokyo inhabitans? that just means she is on the higher end of 5-A.
2.If anyone it's you who need to get over it when we got a better thing covered (being her feats), but oh well.

3.Even if you wanted to convince us of this, that wouldn't be even Science Manipulation, that would be Matter Manipulation.

1. Besides being superior to all Gensokyo inhabitans, not much to say.

2. You need to get over it of pointlessly disagreeing over an intelligence upgrade. When clear evidence was shown, you somehow randomly denied for a petty reason which makes no sense at all.

3. Manipulating the Laws of Physics And Particles relates to mainly Science Manipulation not only Matter Manipulation.

 

[ALRF]

1. Which isn't enough to give her an "At leat High 5-A" rating, that just means she is on the higher end of "5-A"

2.Because that thing is useless and just like everyone said, we have a better thing, then just saying Superhuman intelligence or whatever, i'm not randomly denying it for a petty reason, no, i'm denying it, because it's utterly irrelevant, when we have feats that describe her intelligence in a better way, but oh well.

3.................That's only manipulating Particles and Waves here not the Laws of Physics and Particles, so yeah Matter Manipulation

Edit: Anyhow i won't reply for a time so don't expect me to reply again

 

[Magi_Hussie]

1. Which isn't enough to give her an "At leat High 5-A" rating, that just means she is on the higher end of "5-A"
2.Because that thing is useless and just like everyone said, we have a better thing, then just saying Superhuman intelligence or whatever, i'm not randomly denying it for a petty reason, no, i'm denying it, because it's utterly irrelevant, when we have feats that describe her intelligence in a better way, but oh well.

3.................That's only manipulating Particles and Waves here not the Laws of Physics and Particles, so yeah Matter Manipulation

Edit: Anyhow i won't reply for a time so don't expect me to reply again

1. I guess Large Planet level+ would possibly also work.

2. Even though you guys are clearly supposed to use only this to scale Intelligence, not make them up and be like "its accurate" b/c that's kind of contradictory: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligence

Also (on the right):



3. Yukari creating Genosoyko would involve manipulating its Laws of Phyiscs. Also, manipulating Particles would relate to all Energy, Physics, and Matter Manipulation that you would find that under Science Manipulation.

k.

 

[Promestein]

The + is only used when substantiated by a calc.

That is literally just a suggestion, as stated on the page.

No it wouldn't, that's a massive assumption. It's wanking.

 

[Hazerddex]

No, it's not even a possibility.
Gensokyo itself is small enough to fit inside Japan. It isn't universal at all.

Gensokyo is constantly growing. where did they say that it could fit inside japan? did some one run caluclations on the actucal size of gensokyo ever? and reimu explained that gensoyku is not a dome barrier around a section in japan. in WaHH

the bamboo forest of the lost was not Orginally part of Gensokyo. it was washed in by a tsunami

as for this topic i wouldn't say shes stronger then some one like junko whos a pimordial being existing before things had names. however

sauce: Strange creators of the Outerworld offical touhou magazine article by ZUN

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"Yukari's ability is the "manipulation of boundaries". It's a far-too-powerful ability that can, logically speaking, affect anything. Naturally, if she put this ability to its full use it wouldn't even be a game, so for the purposes of the narrative she fights within the spellcard rules. Then again, it seems she was involved in the creation of these rules in the first place, so..."

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"Her personality is, in a word, suspicious. And while she looks no different from a human, her behavior is quite unlike one and the average Joe would have difficulty understanding what she's thinking. Because she sleeps during the day and is active at night, she leaves most of her tasks to her shikigami. While her residence is usually placed on the other side of the Hakurei Shrine, seemingly right on the edge of Gensokyo, her tendency to appear and vanish like the wind makes such details meaningless. While you could say that her activities cover the whole of Gensoyko, the fact that Yukari isn't bound by even that is what's so terrifying about her."


not sure if this helps this topic at all.

 

[Promestein]

Junko didn't exist before things had names, she just purified herself to that state with her powers.

It's nothing really new.

 

[Hazerddex]

also i need to point this out before i break somthing. Magi RobloxG


yukari is not the sole creator of gensokyo.


kasen, Okina, and the hakrei shrine maiden (before reimu?)

and i think another not sure it even stated how many sages there were.

teamed up with the Dragon gods. to make gensyoku.


and in touhou 16. Okina hints that they were slowly losing control over Gensyoku's Growth

 

[Magi_Hussie]

The + is only used when substantiated by a calc.

That is literally just a suggestion, as stated on the page.

No it wouldn't, that's a massive assumption. It's wanking.

1. ALRK mentioned that suggestion.

2. Then we should use it then.

3. How would adding Science Manipulation to her profile is automatically "wank?" There's literally nothing wrong with that.

 

[ALRF]

1. I didn't...you brough it up yourself.

2. I won't even talk about this.

3.No, why we should add something that is actually wank? Yukari didn't create Gensokyo alone, she had help, also saying Science Manipulation is like saying she can manipulate everything related to it, from relativity to Quantum...something that Yukari doesn't, that's only an impressive Matter Manipulation...


Also good meme, i can do it too.



see? Now stop using shit like that.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@ALRF

1. I only bought up "At least 5-A" while you tried to bought up a tier that required a calc.

2. k.

3. (Not in a rude way) Ok fine, we can add just Energy & Matter Manipulation for this ability since that's what it mentions.

 

[ALRF]

1. I didn't... even brough a tier that required calc? Where did i even say something like Large Planet Level+?

3.I don't think we should even add that since Boundary Manipulation already has that...but eh, if other people agree on it then i don't see why not.

 

[Andykhang]

Just put it in Application, and we're good.

...And isn't that we can't used the Wave/Particle boundary thing to direct that to Energy-Matter manipulation (for instance, using E=MC2) because there's no feat for it?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

1. I didn't... even brough a tier that required calc? Where did i even say something like Large Planet Level+?

3.I don't think we should even add that since Boundary Manipulation already has that...but eh, if other people agree on it then i don't see why not.

1. Just pointing that out.

3. Mk.

 

[ALRF]

Pointing out what? As i said, i never even said something like Large Planet Level+ so i dunno where you got it from.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Just put it in Application, and we're good.

...And isn't that we can't used the Wave/Particle boundary thing to direct that to Energy-Matter manipulation (for instance, using E=MC2) because there's no feat for it?

We can just place Energy-Matter Manipulation in the powers & abilities section while mentioning Boundary of Wave/Particle in the section that explains to you about Yukari's BM.

 

[Andykhang]

Again, then where is the Energy-Matter Manipulation came from? Aside from spell card with the names, there isn't anything clear cut.

 

[Juggerton]

Again, then where is the Energy-Matter Manipulation came from? Aside from spell card with the names, there isn't anything clear cut.

This feels somewhat hypnotic. Waves become particles, and then back to waves. Would a photo capture this?


-From her duel against Aya

she manipulates the light particles of the danmaku

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Again, then where is the Energy-Matter Manipulation came from? Aside from spell card with the names, there isn't anything clear cut.

If you manipulate the Boundary of Wave/Particle, then you will be able to manipulate both Energy & Matter.

 

[Andykhang]

I know that, but aside from spell card, there isn't any other example (heck, even Marisa could do that kind of pattern). Even truth and lie still have that barrier to the moon thing.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

I know that, but aside from spell card, there isn't any other example (heck, even Marisa could do that kind of pattern). Even truth and lie still have that barrier to the moon thing.

Yukari's BM-based attacks works differently, depending on what the spell cards say.

 

[Hazerddex]

I know that, but aside from spell card, there isn't any other example (heck, even Marisa could do that kind of pattern). Even truth and lie still have that barrier to the moon thing.

are you refering to the incident when yukari tricked the lunarian sisters by using herself and reimu as a diversion and had yuyuko steal sake from them?

if you mean other examples of the power to manipulate light plenty. she use light to attack the three fairies when testing them. in the offical manga touhou sangetsusei strange and bright nature deity

http://l.mhcdn.net/store/manga/3286...155f329349d655e73ba413d0def8e3&ttl=1504630800

http://l.mhcdn.net/store/manga/3286...806496bc1a1e67f12b6978e6b487f3&ttl=1504630800

her power dsicription from PiMSS


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The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.

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As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries.

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If there was no water surface, there could be no lake.

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If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.

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Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist.

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If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.

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Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is by logic an ability of creation and destruction.

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It essentially creates a new existence, or conversely rejects some existence.

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Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.

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She is also capable of moving to an entirely separate location between gaps in space, whether it be her entire body or only a part of her.

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It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.

 

[Juggerton]

I know that, but aside from spell card, there isn't any other example (heck, even Marisa could do that kind of pattern). Even truth and lie still have that barrier to the moon thing.

From GoM,its stated that she can actually manipulate the boundary of those stuff if her spell cards have it.

 

[Juggerton]

Its also stated/shown somewhere in either IaMP or SWR that alternate timelines also exist in Gensokyo too


like how Sakuya pulling her other self ffrom other timeline to play and Yukari meeting her other self (iirc)

 

[Andykhang]

Again, even if she could, where is the other proof for that? Just that one time with the spell card doesn't mean she would suddenly be able to vaporize an opponent into a heavy class nuke.

Edit: Not that she can't (heck, I believe that), but VSbattles is on a proof-based currency, not by barter with hope and dream.

 

[Juggerton]

Again, even if she could, where is the other proof for that? Just that one time with the spell card doesn't mean she would suddenly be able to vaporize an opponent into a heavy class nuke.
Edit: Not that she can't (heck, I believe that), but VSbattles is on a proof-based currency, not by barter with hope and dream.

Universe of Matter and Antimatter

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm going to be honest here, 100% of Yukari's boundary-related abilities are listed solely as "Boundary Manipulation" on her profile. If we were to add stuff like Energy manip, then we'd also have to add tons of other stuff. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but that'd be the subject of another thread.

Unless you guys are STILL attempting to upgrade her AP, in which case I may as well close this thread.