Yu-Gi-Oh GX the 12 dimensions

[Zencha9]

Hoo boy here comes Everyone's favorite topic in this crt i'll clear some misinformation about the 12 dimensions and how they should be universe sized

So im not gonna beat around the bush
I rewatched the entirety of season 3 to check the 12 dimensions and all the statments regarding it and not even once did they refer to dimensions by name that's right the desert dimension and every dimension name on the wiki is fake

So i got into discord and asked the yugioh wiki mods about it and basically the names just serve as a description and not to be taken literally and when i tried to remove the dimensions names from the wiki they said in response that they use dub terms in this case

So now that the dimensions names are out of the way i'll provide scans on why the 12 dimensions are universal in size

• First of all 2 statements regarding them being universal
• Edit: for some reason some people can't see the scans so here it is in order 1st | 2nd
  
• 2nd it's also explained that the 12 dimensions work on quantum theory when the the dimensions appeared in the show
• Edit: same as the above here's the scan for those who can't see it

Hope this clears some stuff, also everyone please chill we don't want to turn this into a shitstrom like the last threads.
Also obviously this would scale to alot of characters.

Agree :
Disagree :

 

[Bernkastelll]

seems straight forward, i agree

 

[Trumpty_Dumpty]

Agreed, short and seems straight to the point

 

[Zencha9]

Inb4 anyone says "even if the name desert dimension is fake the dimension is only just a desert"
No it has 3 stars orbiting it's clearly not just a desert

 

[RedDoragon]

Hoo boy here comes Everyone's favorite topic in this crt i'll clear some misinformation about the 12 dimensions and how they should be universe sized

So im not gonna beat around the bush
I rewatched the entirety of season 3 to check the 12 dimensions and all the statments regarding it and not even once did they refer to dimensions by name that's right the desert dimension and every dimension name on the wiki is fake

So i got into discord and asked the yugioh wiki mods about it and basically the names just serve as a description and not to be taken literally and when i tried to remove the dimensions names from the wiki they said in response that they use dub terms in this case

So now that the dimensions names are out of the way i'll provide scans on why the 12 dimensions are universal in size

• First of all 2 statements regarding them being universal
  
  
• 2nd it's also explained that the 12 dimensions work on quantum theory when the the dimensions appeared in the show

Hope this clears some stuff, also everyone please chill we don't want to turn this into a shitstrom like the last threads.
Also obviously this would scale to alot of characters.

Agree :
Disagree :

Agree, make sense to me

 

[Delta333]

Agree,I don’t see any problem unless anti feats exist

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Multiversal Jaden? I agree.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

Hard agree

 

[SarieRuu]

I agree

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Agree

 

[Hasty12345]

seems super simple, I agree

 

[Tago238]

To start off, I haven’t watched the GX anime but I fail to see how these scans prove anything. Characters are allowed to call pocket dimensions universes and similarly pocket dimensions are also allowed to function under some vaguely alluded to “quantum theory”.

If there isn’t evidence against them being fully sized universes then I’d imagine you’d automatically consider them to be so and there’d be a burden of proof on a side opposing this, but these aren’t valid arguments.

 

[QuasiYuri]

They are called litteral alternate universes, so I agree with it for now.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

To start off, I haven’t watched the GX anime but I fail to see how these scans prove anything. Characters are allowed to call pocket dimensions universes and similarly pocket dimensions are also allowed to function under some vaguely alluded to “quantum theory”.

If there isn’t evidence against them being fully sized universes then I’d imagine you’d automatically consider them to be so and there’d be a burden of proof on a side opposing this, but these aren’t valid arguments.

Yeah but there is nothing implying those are pocket dimensions in the first place. One of the dimensions that was shown to be destroyed was the main universe itself so I don't see the problem here.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

So 2C Yu Gi Oh?? I agree.

 

[DragonLord]

I Agree

So 2C Yu Gi Oh?? I agree.

Well, Z-ARC was already 2-C, not sure who scales to this though

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I Agree


Well, Z-ARC was already 2-C, not sure who scales to this though

Well we normal users can atleast agree on the 12 universes being standard sized from these statements, anything beyond that its the work of knowledgeables to handle scaling and such.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Agree with this too.

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

Though I am not that quite knowledgeable on that many verses, I can see this is quite simply as to what it is. Agree, as I can't currently see anything wrong with this.

 

[SagaTheLegend]

It would scale to Jaden and Yubel with the Super Polymerization

 

[Bobsican]

Looks fine.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, I agree.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hold on guys. First, someone should call @SomebodyData here to comment as he was the one who was behind the downgrade to the 12 GX dimensions to begin with.

Secondly, from what I recall from the downgrade, the names of the dimensions never had anything to do with downgrading their size to begin with. The downgrade happened because not only was there a lack of evidence in proving all 12 dimensions were actual universal-sized space-times to begin with, but also because some of the shown dimensions had anti-evidence of being universal, as Somebody himself brought up.

For instance, one of the 12 dimensions, Neo-Space, is explicitly shown to just be a planet orbiting Jupiter.

Another example is the desert dimension as the OP mentioned. Even if there's a couple stars orbiting it, that at best only makes it a stellar sized world. Not universal.

The scans the OP brought forth were also already brought up in Somebody's thread and were addressed, so they aren't new evidence.

 

[QuasiYuri]

For instance, one of the 12 dimensions, Neo-Space, is explicitly shown to just be a planet orbiting Jupiter.

The planet is Dolphina, not Neo Space.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The planet is Dolphina, not Neo Space.

Thats still beside the point. Neo-Space is never treated or depicted as it's own universe, and with "part of it" being said to orbit a planet, thats a damning knock against it being its own separate reality.

Much less a universe-sized one.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Thats still beside the point. Neo-Space is never treated or depicted as it's own universe, and with "part of it" being said to orbit a planet, thats a damning knock against it being its own separate reality.

Your proof for it is a page saying it is a universe tho. Not the best thing.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Your proof for it is a page saying it is a universe tho. Not the best thing.

You know something called a universe is not evidence of universe-sized structures without more context for it, right? And your still missing the main point of why it wouldn't be one.

If part of this "universe" is explicitly depicted to orbit around a planet, how is it a universe? Or its own separate reality?

 

[QuasiYuri]

You know something called a universe is not evidence of universe-sized structures without more context for it, right? And your still missing the main point of why it wouldn't be one.

If part of this "universe" is explicitly depicted to orbit around a planet, how is it a universe? Or its own separate reality?

Our solar system is part of the universe, doesn't mean it is suddenly a pocket dimension.
Same here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Our solar system is part of the universe, doesn't mean it is suddenly a pocket dimension.
Same here.

You do realize your siding with my point here by saying this, right? Your just admitting Neo-Space isn't an actual reality or dimension, but something within an already existing reality.

 

[SomebodyData]

Quantum theory doesn't actually mention the size of the universes have to be the same as ours, even if we ignore that these dimensions aren't actually parallel timelines (Neither a sperate timeline or parallel as shown by Neo Space).

Even before the downgrade, Super Poly was only through Preparation anyways, and would only scale that way to Yubel.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Do we have Raw Japanese scans that can be translated by Japanese reading viewers?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

You know something called a universe is not evidence of universe-sized structures without more context for it, right? And your still missing the main point of why it wouldn't be one.

If part of this "universe" is explicitly depicted to orbit around a planet, how is it a universe? Or its own separate reality?

You cannot put a limit on a dimension just because your eyes or can see limited parts of a reality, either due to low range or narrow field of vision. Same goes for "camera" in manga,comics or anime etc.

We didn't know universe was 93 Billion LY wide in old days, only now do we know it is due to scientific data. Even then its not visual.
If you had never went to school, the world would only be 4A or Multi Solar System at best to your eyes, and flat earth at worst.

If its called a universe then default assumption will be a direct comparison to our own universe, we can't default with a low ball for no good reason.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You cannot put a limit on a dimension just because your eyes or can see limited parts of a reality, either due to low range or narrow field of vision. Same goes for "camera" in manga,comics or anime etc.

First of all, thats not what my point at all here was doing. The point was that this "dimension" explicitly has, at the bare minimum, a part of itself literally orbiting a planet. That isn't about "it's small because we see it this size", it's about "this isn't universe sized, nor its own reality, as it orbits a planet". If it was an actual separate reality, and a universe sized one, this wouldn't be the case.

Besides, this is kinda exactly how we do things here anyway. Otherwise, any generic pocket reality that showed stars would qualify as a universe. Yet, we only treat them as 4-C or 4-A sized worlds until more evidence is given.

We didn't know universe was 93 Billion LY wide in old days, only now do we know it is due to scientific data. Even then its not visual.
If you had never went to school, the world would only be 4A or Multi Solar System at best to your eyes, and flat earth at worst.

See above.

If its called a universe then default assumption will be a direct comparison to our own universe, we can't default with a low ball for no good reason.

Except, we do have a reason. Same as above, as well as the fact that "universe" in fiction is an ambiguous term that doesn't at all always mean a universe-sized reality. Some pocket worlds that are not remotely universal in size are still called "universes", so we tend to have to treat them by the given details we see.

Until, again, more evidence to substantiate a larger size is presented.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

First of all, thats not what my point at all here was doing. The point was that this "dimension" explicitly has, at the bare minimum, a part of itself literally orbiting a planet. That isn't about "it's small because we see it this size", it's about "this isn't universe sized, nor its own reality, as it orbits a planet". If it was an actual separate reality, and a universe sized one, this wouldn't be the case.

I am confused by the bolded. Why does seeing part of it limit the full size? Just cuz I can only see a room doesn’t mean I am not in a high rise when it’s stated to be a high rise.

Besides, this is kinda exactly how we do things here anyway. Otherwise, any generic pocket reality that showed stars would qualify as a universe. Yet, we only treat them as 4-C or 4-A sized worlds until more evidence is given.

Seeing stars doesn’t make something a universe tho? And that’s not even the reasoning for this CRT. It’s the fact that they are called universes.

Except, we do have a reason. Same as above, as well as the fact that "universe" in fiction is an ambiguous term that doesn't at all always mean a universe-sized reality. Some pocket worlds that are not remotely universal in size are still called "universes", so we tend to have to treat them by the given details we see.

This makes no sense as when we look at raws for manga, when it says uchu, we take it to be an actual universe as that is the word for it. What is the difference with that and something being called a universe? This isn’t someone saying dimension where we need info on its scale but straight up calling it a universe which we automatically assume to be the size of our observable universe unless given proof otherwise.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I am confused by the bolded. Why does seeing part of it limit the full size? Just cuz I can only see a room doesn’t mean I am not in a high rise when it’s stated to be a high rise.

Because, again, this isn't just about "seeing what it looks and calling it a day with its size", its about the fact that part of this space is literally orbiting something that's no where remotely close to the size of a universe. How can part of something rotate around something else while the former is something so astronomically bigger than that they are rotating around? It's like saying a galaxy can orbit a star.

But more importantly, the bigger issue is that it wouldn't be a reality, much less a separate timeline, to begin with. Which still becomes an inconsistency against the argument that its a timeline.

Seeing stars doesn’t make something a universe tho? And that’s not even the reasoning for this CRT. It’s the fact that they are called universes.

This makes no sense as when we look at raws for manga, when it says uchu, we take it to be an actual universe as that is the word for it. What is the difference with that and something being called a universe? This isn’t someone saying dimension where we need info on its scale but straight up calling it a universe which we automatically assume to be the size of our observable universe unless given proof otherwise.

Thats under the assumption that uchu is being used here, so someone will need to get the raws to confirm it (if its available). But anyway, I don't recall us ever taking something as a universe just because its titled one. We would need actual evidence that the depiction of it is universe sized. Unless the reality is never shown of course (since you can't demand evidence of depiction for something thats never shown).

Not to mention, you would definitely need evidence beyond just a title if some of these said worlds have blatant inconsistencies against them being universe sized timelines. Which is the case we are dealing with here for Yu-Gi-Oh.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbh, Occam's Razor goes here, and if they're called "universes", then it shouldn't be assumed that they aren't unless you go from mental gymnastics and useless assumptions.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Tbh, Occam's Razor goes here, and if they're called "universes", then it shouldn't be assumed that they aren't unless you go from mental gymnastics and useless assumptions.

And that doesn't work here since we have inconsistencies to go against the Occam's razor (Neo Space and the desert dimension).

If some of these worlds have anti-evidence of blatantly not being universal sized, or even being an actual universe, then actual evidence of them being universal is required at that point.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

First of all, thats not what my point at all here was doing. The point was that this "dimension" explicitly has, at the bare minimum, a part of itself literally rotating a planet. That isn't about "it's small because we see it this size", it's about "this isn't universe sized, nor its own reality, as it orbits a planet". If it was an actual separate reality, and a universe sized one, this wouldn't be the case.

Wut?? A dimension rotating around a planet like a moon?? Did I interpret this correct??
That could be problematic potentially but....it could just be outer appearance is "less" then the actual inner size.

Besides, this is kinda exactly how we do things here anyway. Otherwise, any generic pocket reality that showed stars would qualify as a universe. Yet, we only treat them as 4-C or 4-A sized worlds until more evidence is given.

That was never my intent or implications, my point was visuals don't limit anything, thats it.
If visuals are the best evidence for something then its best you can use for size.

But here its called universe, extra evidence for size. Which shouldn't be limited by visuals alone.

Except, we do have a reason. Same as above, as well as the fact that "universe" in fiction is an ambiguous term that doesn't at all always mean a universe-sized reality. Some pocket worlds that are not remotely universal in size are still called "universes", so we tend to have to treat them by the given details we see.

Until, again, more evidence to substantiate a larger size is presented.

As small time as I have been here and some other places I have never come around auch examples.
Besides these feels like exception to the rules then anything else.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And that doesn't work here since we have inconsistencies to go against the Occam's razor (Neo Space and the desert dimension).

If some of these worlds have anti-evidence of blatantly not being universal sized, or even being an actual universe, then actual evidence of them being universal is required at that point.

We got things as DDLC where the verse is literally just a bunch of files which toghether make like, a 4-A Sized room at 1st glance, and yet is still called universe and is accepted as Low 2-C. Undertale same, the gameworld is like shown with just a planet and sun yet the structure is accepted as Low 2-C as well due of it being called a timeline. I don't see how that doesen't apply here as well, unless you wan't to downgrade these verses at 4-A at best each.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I’d need to rewatch the stuff for Neos Space but how is the desert an issue? Is it just because we only see the school in a desert? With that logic, we would have to ignore the fact that the main universe is called exactly that and say it’s multi solar to solar system in size since we only see our system and starry night skies iirc.