Your Waifus Do Not Exist: Touhou Main Cast NEP + High-Godly

[OverlordDonnelly]

I shall also bump because I am funky.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay so

Newest chapter of CDS is out, and I feel the need to post this stuff here. Basically, vengeful spirits, much like youkai, need to fulfill some sort of purpose (in this case, revenge) in order to solidify their existence. Due to this, they should all get nature type 1 aspect type 2 NEP. This applies to divine spirits as well, given that they are directly compared to vengeful spirits the page afterwards. Also, yes this apparently retcons the 'unaffected by vengeful spirits' stuff from SoPM, I don't ******* know why.

 

[ÆONS]

Okay so

Newest chapter of CDS is out, and I feel the need to post this stuff here. Basically, vengeful spirits, much like youkai, need to fulfill some sort of purpose (in this case, revenge) in order to solidify their existence. Due to this, they should all get nature type 1 aspect type 2 NEP. This applies to divine spirits as well, given that they are directly compared to vengeful spirits the page afterwards. Also, yes this apparently retcons the 'unaffected by vengeful spirits' stuff from SoPM, I don't ******* know why.

Okay so basically, this chapter says that vengeful spirits and youkai are very similar, so similar that they are capable of possessing youkai very easily. And by extension divine spirits and vengeful spirits are very similar as well which is why they are easily possessed too.

Vengeful Spirits = Youkai = Divine Spirits/Gods.

I feel this is only more proof that NEP for Youkai and others is indeed valid.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay so basically, this chapter says that vengeful spirits and youkai are very similar, so similar that they are capable of possessing youkai very easily. And by extension divine spirits and vengeful spirits are very similar as well which is why they are easily possessed too.

Vengeful Spirits = Youkai = Divine Spirits/Gods.

I feel this is only more proof that NEP for Youkai and others is indeed valid.

Didn't even think of it like that, huh. Though this would probably be a different form of NEP than type 4, it means youkai get at least 1 kind of NEP with the possibility of 2 types. Regardless, good to have at least some kind of NEP supported by new material. Also remember that Junko is still considered a divine spirit, so that also supports divine spirit NEP.

If I had a nickel for every controversial Touhou revision that had completely new yet extremely important canon information released midway through, I'd have 2 nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Since we're on the topic of conceptual NEP for youkai, LE states that youkai who follow Byakuren's teachings and depriving themselves of their desires will cease to exist, yet based on Doremy's win quotes in AoCF, Byakuren has already achieved this state of being (for further context, dream selves are more or less the repressed desires of the original, meaning Byakuren must have rid herself of all desires to have a dream self emotionally identical to her real self). Given that she's clearly still around, she should get NEP, and lends even further credence to the idea that youkai can "exist" just fine when having their existence denied, something supported by youkai existing prior to gaining the characteristics that solidify their existence as youkai in FS and the most recent chapter of CDS, where they are compared to non-existent vengeful spirits. With that in mind, I believe all youkai should instead have 'Nature type 1, Aspect types 2 & 4'.

 

[PrinceofPein]

youkai who follow Byakuren's teachings and depriving themselves of their desires will cease to exist

Denying your own existence = cease to exist tho
It’s just English
Let me give an example of what I mean
“Son we are fishermen in this family, saying you don’t want to be one means denying your existence”

It is used to describe something someone lives for and then decides not to do

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Denying your own existence = cease to exist tho
It’s just English
Let me give an example of what I mean
“Son we are fishermen in this family, saying you don’t want to be one means denying your existence”

It is used to describe something someone lives for and then decides not to do

No, this is entirely literal in this case. It is repeated time and time again that the very existence of a youkai depends on factors such as this. Denying such factors is likened to 'death', though obviously it isn't 'true' death. Using an in-verse comparison, it is similar to how gods will 'die' when losing faith, though in reality they just revert to their non-existent primordial form.

^ Referring to the same concept that Aya was, which is that youkai must follow some base desires in order to continue to exist.

This one refers to how Shou would 'disappear at any moment' without her existence being established in a similar manner, which is in no way indicative of the metaphorical meaning you suggested.

TL;DR: Yes, Aya was referring to literal existence.

Also, I should note that all of the above applies solely to conceptual existence, and not informational existence.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No, this is entirely literal in this case. It is repeated time and time again that the very existence of a youkai depends on factors such as this. Denying such factors is likened to 'death', though obviously it isn't 'true' death. Using an in-verse comparison, it is similar to how gods will 'die' when losing faith, though in reality they just revert to their non-existent primordial form.

^ Referring to the same concept that Aya was, which is that youkai must follow some base desires in order to continue to exist.

Part of their existence ?
That’s check the example I have above
Nothing here is literal. So if it was “part of their nature” would that have changed anything?

This one refers to how Shou would 'disappear at any moment' without her existence being established in a similar manner, which is in no way indicative of the metaphorical meaning you suggested.

TL;DR: Yes, Aya was referring to literal existence.

Actually No
It said if they don’t attack humans, humans will forget the fear they have for them and that would threaten their existence
I don’t see how any of this means they will cease to exist and become non-existent

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Part of their existence ?
That’s check the example I have above
Nothing here is literal. So if it was “part of their nature” would that have changed anything?

...Yes, because youkai have other aspects to their existence beyond just that. Their minds, for example. They are all necessary for continued existence, even though they're all just smaller individual parts of that existence. You're just sitting here going "it's not literal" with 0 ******* reasoning while deliberately ignoring context.

This is basically like going "if eggs are only one part of a cake, then that means you don't actually need eggs to bake a cake".

Actually No
It said if they don’t attack humans, humans will forget the fear they have for them and that would threaten their existence
I don’t see how any of this means they will cease to exist and become non-existent

"But she wasn't a youkai with a solid identity. It wouldn't have been strange for her to disappear at any moment".

Learn to ******* read. This is about as blatant as you can get for this being tied to one's literal existence. 'Losing one's purpose' in a less literal sense, like you would suggest, would in no ******* way imply 'disappearing at any moment'.

 

[PrinceofPein]

N.P - edited

...Yes, because youkai have other aspects to their existence beyond just that. Their minds, for example. They are all necessary for continued existence, even though they're all just smaller individual parts of that existence. You're just sitting here going "it's not literal" with 0 ******* reasoning while deliberately ignoring context.

This is basically like going "if eggs are only one part of a cake, then that means you don't actually need eggs to bake a cake".

Still don’t see how it is literal but since you are acting like a little kid as usual, I will just let you be

"But she wasn't a youkai with a solid identity. It wouldn't have been strange for her to disappear at any moment".

Learn to ******* read. This is about as blatant as you can get for this being tied to one's literal existence. 'Losing one's purpose' in a less literal sense, like you would suggest, would in no ******* way imply 'disappearing at any moment'.

Still does not give them NEP lol
And no I am not ignoring context, just following the scans you posted while ignoring your explanations since they are unreliable like all myths. You are a known to inflate stats in the series so you will understand why I ignore them and just follow what the author said instead

That and acting toxic in literally all arguments you are in
You can’t handle someone not seeing things your way. You really need to grow tf up

 

[ÆONS]

Denying your own existence = cease to exist tho
It’s just English
Let me give an example of what I mean
“Son we are fishermen in this family, saying you don’t want to be one means denying your existence”

It is used to describe something someone lives for and then decides not to do

No, the scan you are responding to mentions that Youkai are beings ruled by their spirit and emotions. To deny themselves of their desires which are clearly linked to their spiritual essences would lead them to destroy themselves. The scans Mokou provided (particularly the first one) reinforce this in a way. Youkai cannot exist without attacking or threatening humans since it is a basic part of their desires. Their desires are linked to their spirit and vice-versa.

However, as Byakuren herself showed through her teachings, there is a way for Youkai to cease to exist yet still be in Gensokyo. This is a type of NEP in my opinion.

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The example you gave was simply a human being (assuming they are one, if not then they are surely a physical being) choosing not to become a fisherman unlike his family whom are certainly like him. Their literal existence is not tied to the roles they undertook since birth, they could easily choose to be something else entirely while still being the same as before in terms of existing. They are not spiritual essences, they are material lifeforms—or at least people who operate under different rules than those I outlined above. For that matter they can change their desires however they want and it would mean nothing to how they exist in any way. They cannot simply deny themselves their existences by not being fisherman because that's not how it works.

 

[PrinceofPein]

No, the scan you are responding to mentions that Youkai are beings ruled by their spirit and emotions. To deny themselves of their desires which are clearly linked to their spiritual essences would lead them to destroy themselves. The scans Mokou provided (particularly the first one) reinforce this in a way. Youkai cannot exist without attacking or threatening humans since it is a basic part of their desires. Their desires are linked to their spirit and vice-versa.

However, as Byakuren herself showed through her teachings, there is a way for Youkai to cease to exist yet still be in Gensokyo. This is a type of NEP in my opinion.

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The example you gave was simply a human being (assuming they are one, if not then they are surely a physical being) choosing not to become a fisherman unlike his family whom are certainly like him. Their literal existence is not tied to the roles they undertook since birth, they could easily choose to be something else entirely while still being the same as before in terms of existing. They are not spiritual essences, they are material lifeforms—or at least people who operate under different rules than those I outlined above. For that matter they can change their desires however they want and it would mean nothing to how they exist in any way. They cannot simply deny themselves their existences by not being fisherman because that's not how it works.

Well I see
This was a pretty nice explanation, Thanks

 

[ÆONS]

Well I see
This was a pretty nice explanation, Thanks

Your welcome.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Aeons (I hope that's how you spell that) explained it better than I could have, thank you.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Shmooply]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Shmooply]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Greatsage13th]

I agree with all things.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

7-3-2, we finally have a decisive amount of agreements over disagreements. As usual, the hard part is waiting for non-permabanned staff.

 

[Shmooply]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

hey, it hasn't been 8 hours on this one yet :v

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Greatsage13th]

Grumpy

 

[Shmooply]

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[ÆONS]

 

[Shmooply]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

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[Shmooply]

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