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Yhwach, Destroyer of Worlds (Bleach God Tier Revision)

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AKUTO123 said:
How does the collapse of the 2 universes affect the garganta, which is a much larger structure than the universe, and the huce mundo hell and other dimensions that are completely independent of those universes. collapse is logical both as the narrative of the series and logically. but with the disappearance of dangai I see nothing that indicates that garganta and everything else must disappear.
Click to expand...
Rukia and Urahara say the "collapse of the Universe", not the "collapse of the Universes."

It seems to me that they're referring to the overall Bleach Cosmos collapsing if the two worlds (Soul Society and the World of the Living) end up overflowing into each other.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Okay well I've been following this thread and read the thread where it talked about the SK seperating the worlds with Almighty powers, first the fact that you think miraculously the author was not referring to hax the SK possesses which is also called "Almighty" btw is shocking.
If anything thats you giving it your own meaning and also me thinking it means another thing, boils down to head canon either way.

I realized that this thread is full of biased people, they dont really care about the scaling they just want an upgrade for their favorite verse tbh.
First they dont even see a problem with people that do not have a solid continental feat, just upscale suddenly getting increased to been able to destroy low 2C structures.
make it make sense

Then I realized that majority of the people here that supports this are those in the thread that disagreed with a universal rating for naruto characters.
P.S. I also disagree with universal nardo, since it doesn't make sense even though there are clear cut statements in the novels and databook that says otherwise compared to this that boils down to speculations and your own interpretations

I'm still neutral BTW cause I am not interested in having round about arguments.

Yes feels like I'm pointing finger but nah its just what I can see and what's happening.
Click to expand...
The novels show us that the soul king created existing cosmology, the Stages. Let's say no, didn't he create it? It has been stated 27738383 times that yhwach's son could also destroy this cogmology. Should we ignore all of these? so writer: this character can destroy Universes
If we are: No, it cannot destroy, should we say it did not destroy even a continent?
 
Damage3245 said:
Rukia and Urahara say the "collapse of the Universe", not the "collapse of the Universes."

It seems to me that they're referring to the overall Bleach Cosmos collapsing if the two worlds (Soul Society and the World of the Living) end up overflowing into each other.
Click to expand...
good argument if YH planed to destroy it via the imbalance of souls, which is not the case as we see at the end and statements from the novels
 
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
Yhwach isn’t destroying the worlds via an imbalance of souls. It’s clearly stated he would use his raw power.
Click to expand...
That's not my point. My point is that is the entire Universe will collapse via just the Soul Society and the World of the Living collapsing into each other, then all Yhwach would need to do is destroy the Dangai (which is described in the manga itself as the boundary keeping the souls from spilling over) and from there everything else would be destroyed. No need for him to destroy the Garganta itself.

Also are you arguing for him destroying the worlds via raw power or destroying the Garganta via raw power? There seems to be a contradiction now.
 
Damage3245 said:
People were asking about how would this and this be relevant. But this ties all the way back into Rukia & Urahara's explanations at the beginning of the manga.

The worlds becoming unbalanced and collapsing into each isn't just the destruction of the two worlds, but the collapse of the entire Universe.

This collapse, the removal of life and death, is the same exact same thing as Yhwach's goals.

So in effect it all ends up the same way; if the worlds become unbalanced then everything in the Universe collapses back into the original form before the splitting. The Dangai is described as a boundary keeping the souls of each world separate, souls pass through the boundary in a cycle. If that boundary was removed, then all of the souls on both sides would have nothing keeping them apart and they would merge. Thus resulting in the "collapse of the Universe" as mentioned up above.
Click to expand...
What quincies are doing is causing a over flow of souls titling the balance causing a collapse. Not removing the boundaries like yhwach
 
Damage3245 said:
That's not my point. My point is that is the entire Universe will collapse via just the Soul Society and the World of the Living collapsing into each other, then all Yhwach would need to do is destroy the Dangai (which is described in the manga itself as the boundary keeping the souls from spilling over) and from there everything else would be destroyed. No need for him to destroy the Garganta itself.

Also are you arguing for him destroying the worlds via raw power or destroying the Garganta via raw power? There seems to be a contradiction now.
Click to expand...
again, the dangai is nothing more than the bridge of SS and WOTL, HM is completely separated completely from it whereas garganta surrounds and encompasses all of them even allowing travel to places like the soul king palace
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
again, the dangai is nothing more than the bridge of SS and WOTL, HM is completely separated completely from it whereas garganta surrounds and encompasses all of them even allowing travel to places like the soul king palace
Click to expand...
From Rukia's & Urahara's explanations, destroying the bridge will result in the collapse of the Universe and everything returning to the primordial world before life & death were separated.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
If Character A has a feat and Character B scales to it...then methodology of "power boost" or sensibilities matter not...feats are feat and scaling is scaling.
Thats how all verses work....Bleach isn't doing anything criminal here.
Click to expand...
Uhhmmm all your feats are based on speculations thats my point, unless yhwach absorbs low 2C power, he is not becoming low 2C and I'm sure mimihagi and ichigo are not low 2C
 
There is no contradiction to what I said. The point was raw power not the imbalance of souls. But if you want to nitpick he is going to destroy the Garganta which would destroy the worlds.

Again you don’t destroy the cosmology the way Yhwach wanted via this method. He wished to return everything to how it was originally. This includes destroying the Garganta which didn’t exist.

Destroying the Dangai wouldn’t effect all of creation in the way he wanted.
 
you can collapse the universe in two ways by disturbing the balance of the souls or starting with yhwach breaking the balance of the souls with raw power and then changing the mind and ending with deciding to do this with raw power by absorbing the reio i.e. yhwach aimed to destroy with his own power, as we have seen many times in the manga
 
Even if we steel man this point it said hes destroying the boundaries not boundary. In which the dangai would be one boundary.
 
Reio35 said:
Even if we steel man this point it said hes destroying the boundaries not boundary. In which the dangai would be one boundary.
Click to expand...
It doesn't actually say Yhwach would destroy the boundaries.

It says that the boundaries would have disappeared. Something that would have happened anyway going by the interpretation I mentioned up above of the Soul Society and the World of the Living collapsing eventually resulting in the complete collapse of the Universe.
 
Tokinada's statement on the boundary removal

unknown.png

unknown.png


Tokinada here is stating that if ichigo not Defeated Yhwach the boundary would have been destroyed. Reio is not mentioned in this scene. Here tokinada is expressing displeasure that no one konw of ichigo's accomplishment and will never know.

If it's reference to Reio dying, recall ichigo failed miserably at that, twice. he killed reio and couldn't stop mimihagi's absorption as well.

Contextually this is referiing to ichigo's final fight with yhwach, not prior events.

Likewise, 684 shows this event was going top be caused by pure energy

0684-008.png


0684-009.png


Yhwach's plan argument

His original intention on panel is letting Reio die, sure, After that though, Askin makes it clear yhwach will destroy all three worlds
7046949-7453852201-0664-.png


In chapter 680, yhwach performs his mass absorption. It is here clear by his dialogue that only can he achieve his goal directly:
0680-006.png

0680-007.png

0680-016.png


0680-017.png


While under kyoka suigetsu, he demonstrates yet again its via an energy aoe spreading outward
0683-013.png
 
Cyberblader90 said:
Tokinada's statement on the boundary removal

unknown.png

unknown.png


Tokinada here is stating that if ichigo not Defeated Yhwach the boundary would have been destroyed. Reio is not mentioned in this scene. Here tokinada is expressing displeasure that no one konw of ichigo's accomplishment and will never know.

If it's reference to Reio dying, recall ichigo failed miserably at that, twice. he killed reio and couldn't stop mimihagi's absorption as well.

Contextually this is referiing to ichigo's final fight with yhwach, not prior events.

Likewise, 684 shows this event was going top be caused by pure energy

0684-008.png


0684-009.png


Yhwach's plan argument

His original intention on panel is letting Reio die, sure, After that though, Askin makes it clear yhwach will destroy all three worlds
7046949-7453852201-0664-.png


In chapter 680, yhwach performs his mass absorption. It is here clear by his dialogue that only can he achieve his goal directly:
0680-006.png

0680-007.png

0680-016.png


0680-017.png


While under kyoka suigetsu, he demonstrates yet again its via an energy aoe spreading outward
0683-013.png
Click to expand...
can you make the size of the images a bit lower?
 
Damage3245 said:
That's not my point. My point is that is the entire Universe will collapse via just the Soul Society and the World of the Living collapsing into each other, then all Yhwach would need to do is destroy the Dangai (which is described in the manga itself as the boundary keeping the souls from spilling over) and from there everything else would be destroyed. No need for him to destroy the Garganta itself.

Also are you arguing for him destroying the worlds via raw power or destroying the Garganta via raw power? There seems to be a contradiction now.
Click to expand...
Except this is completely wrong.

Yhwach was starting to destroy Soul society planet, the ground is literally collapsing, he wasn't destroying Dangai to destroy everything, it doesn't even make sense.
 
AKUTO123 said:
Does anyone have an issue with op other than Damage? everyone else seems to agree. I don't know the opinion of the other staff of course
Click to expand...
and the opinion of the majority should not be taken less than the opinion of Damage. There are 10 people who agree with this issue and convey their arguments.
 
AKUTO123 said:
and the opinion of the majority should not be taken less than the opinion of Damage. There are 10 people who agree with this issue and convey their arguments.
Click to expand...
unfortunately unless u are a mod ur vote does not count for much anything besides a vs debate thread
 
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