Yhwach, Destroyer of Worlds (Bleach God Tier Revision)

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

LORE of bleach is too confusing and we need to simplify it

One big universe where no life or death exist, hollows appear and then SK, he destroy hollows and the first menos, people get afraid cus his big power, 5 powerful people want to use him

he creates a dimension for life made of matter (kishi) and the other for death made of spirit matter (reishi), make a new one using the corps of the hollow for them, then a tunnel to connect those 2 (WOTL and SS)

then to separate them further they create the boundary (garganta) to keep them apart

there u go, idk what u find complicated

 

[Cyberblader90]

Thats not how it works, we are here to accurate profiles, whats ur point? And wdym with ''turning it simple''?

I mean, Ichigo didnt had a change, or did him?

well he has no stated change, but the zenkai argument would at least explain the tier jump, potentially

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

but what about ichigo

same opinion, dont see the need for the new key since it still bankai ichigo

 

[Bernkastelll]

well he has no stated change, but the zenkai argument would at least explain the tier jump, potentially

Well, the zenkai argument can explain better the massive tier gap, but at the same time, a small Zenkai turning him from his current tier here (tier 6) to tier 2 is also strange, but thats my opinion

 

[Cyberblader90]

I agree the zenkai jump is odd. Then again, in conjunction with bankai repair, and yhwach's statements that ichigo make miracles happen, it might work narratively. I just think its the safest route of exploration regarding his on screen killing of yhwach

 

[Cyberblader90]

but im not opposed to discussing other options .There is the tokinada statement which may apply to soul king candidates after all

 

[YukaSama4]

I agree with the upgrades, dont agree with the scaling, for the Ichigo matter, I agree he got a zenkai but from tier 5 to tier 2 no, I think he was already at that tier in his hollow merged form, also a question, If we want to scale Senna at universal (which I dont have a problem with because what appears in the scan doesnt really look like planets), and accept Aizen and dangai Ichigo to be above her which make sense because Aizen was going to change the world and was implied to reach a level that none could reach from the beginning of the manga, and Ichigo scales to him then we likely will not have to make a new key for Ichigo and illogically try to prove that he jumped from tier 5/6 to 2 just from a zenkai boost. Because we will scale him to dangai and mugetsu Ichigo, iirc it was stated that he regained the power he used to defeat Aizen, so yeah thats my stance and I would like your opinion on this but I think its the most logical option here, given that the stabilization thing is no longer accepted, I think accepting Senna at uni then scaling dangai Ichigo and Hogyoku Aizen to her, then scaling hollow merged form Ichigo and True bankai Ichigo to them is the most logical thing here tbh.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Well Universal senna is an interpretation. You can equally argue the feat as planetary.

If we argue Ichigo was roughly around the tier we are proposing at his peak with the hollow horn, would that not make yhwach tier 3/2 with Only WSK and Mimihagi? That could potentially work if we piggyback off the Tokinada statement. Still I could see some possible issues although I would like more input from others before further discussing this

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Well Universal senna is an interpretation. You can equally argue the feat as planetary.

If we argue Ichigo was roughly around the tier we are proposing at his peak with the hollow horn, would that not make yhwach tier 3/2 with Only WSK and Mimihagi?

i mean at that point he already had the power to keep the boundary from collapsing and the only reason he did not change everything was cus he wanted to fight ichigo

 

[Cyberblader90]

Wouldn't that be a Stabilization argument?

 

[YukaSama4]

Well Universal senna is an interpretation. You can equally argue the feat as planetary.

I chose that because any option we use here will have issues to be honest, so interpreting it as uni then scaling others is better than giving Ichigo a buff from tier 5 or 6 to universal in my opinion

If we argue Ichigo was roughly around the tier we are proposing at his peak with the hollow horn, would that not make yhwach tier 3/2 with Only WSK and Mimihagi? That could potentially work if we piggyback off the Tokinada statement. Still I could see some possible issues although I would like more input from others before further discussing this

An input from other knowledgeable members is important yes

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyber, say we did add a new key for Ichigo, what rating would his true shikai hollowfication and above get, as well as sk Yhwach maybe weakened soul king?

 

[YukaSama4]

@Cyber, say we did add a new key for Ichigo, what rating would his true shikai hollowfication and above get, as well as sk Yhwach maybe weakened soul king?

I think nothing will change? I mean, Ichigo will stay at the same rate but we will give him a new key that scales to the new ratings.

 

[SilentBob34]

I think nothing will change? I mean, Ichigo will stay at the same rate but we will give him a new key that scales to the new ratings.

So they’d still be high 6A? I don’t think that’s entirely accurate at all

 

[SilentBob34]

Like it doesn’t make sense really that soul king Yhwach absorbs the power of 2 high 6A’s and is suddenly 3A unless one of those 2 that he absorbed were already close to or at that level..

 

[YukaSama4]

well, I said that we can use the feat of Senna as uni (I dont remember anything contradicts that) then scale Ichigo and Aizen to her then scale hollow Ichigo from the last arc to them, because I think it makes more sense than the jump from tier 6 to 3 only by a zenkai, what do you think about it?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

well, I said that we can use the feat of Senna as uni (I dont remember anything contradicts that) then scale Ichigo and Aizen to her then scale hollow Ichigo from the last arc to them, because I think it makes more sense than the jump from tier 6 to 3 only by a zenkai, what do you think about it?

It also does not really contradict since for YH to reach that level he must had absorbed something of similar power to begin with

 

[YukaSama4]

I think firstly the upgrades need to be accepted then we can talk freely about the best possible scaling for that

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can we get some more staff input before we rush these upgrades 10% as hard as tier 3/2 bleach was rushed the first time?

 

[SilentBob34]

well, I said that we can use the feat of Senna as uni (I dont remember anything contradicts that) then scale Ichigo and Aizen to her then scale hollow Ichigo from the last arc to them, because I think it makes more sense than the jump from tier 6 to 3 only by a zenkai, what do you think about it?

Using senna’s feat as either a planet level or universe level isn’t bad, but then again maybe I’m being to picky about the absorption thing. You’re right though the upgrades need to be accepted first. I’d like to hear others opinions on the senna feat and how we should treat it though

 

[Ovy7]

I've already read this in private and talked a bit with Cyber, so I agree with it.

Also, the derailment almost made me wish this was Staff and Knowledgeable Members Only

 

[Damage3245]

Will post today when I can with a breakdown of my responses to each part of the OP.

 

[Tyri456]

well, I said that we can use the feat of Senna as uni (I dont remember anything contradicts that) then scale Ichigo and Aizen to her then scale hollow Ichigo from the last arc to them, because I think it makes more sense than the jump from tier 6 to 3 only by a zenkai, what do you think about it?

That would be just an high-end. And it is explained in the thread how yhwach‘s destruction feat can have some doubts in comparison to the creation feat, this why that possible rating for Yhwach.

I agree with the current conclusion, although with no creation of new key.

 

[YukaSama4]

That would be just an high-end. And it is explained in the thread how yhwach‘s destruction feat can have some doubts in comparison to the creation feat, this why that possible rating for Yhwach.

I agree with the current conclusion, although with no creation of new key.

doesnt matter if its a high-end or no, we should choose the most sensible thing tbh, saying that Ichigo jumped from tier 5 to tier 3 based on zenkai doesnt make any sense at all, and also Yhwach jumping to tier 3 just because he absorbed Gerard, Ichigo..itc wouldnt make any sense, Im not trying here to make them as high as I can Im just trying to help in getting a logical scaling for the characters, if anyone have a more logical option I would like to hear it, but I dont support the mentioned scaling in the OP at all

 

[Tyri456]

doesnt matter if its a high-end or no, we should choose the most sensible thing tbh, saying that Ichigo jumped from tier 5 to tier 3 based on zenkai doesnt make any sense at all, and also Yhwach jumping to tier 3 just because he absorbed Gerard, Ichigo..itc wouldnt make any sense, Im not trying here to make them as high as I can Im just trying to help in getting a logical scaling for the characters, if anyone have a more logical option I would like to hear it, but I dont support the mentioned scaling in the OP at all

Ichigo doesn’t jump to planet to universal
He get a tiering from both, given explanation in the OP, it’s a possibility given also on how Bleach is structured.

The stabilizion feat isn’t accepted, neither discussed in the OP, so you can’t apply the old logic of the scaling here.

 

[YukaSama4]

The stabilizion feat isn’t accepted, neither discussed in the OP, so you can’t apply the old logic of the scaling here.

who mentioned the stabilization feat?
Was Senna’s feat removed too???

 

[AKM sama]

Long OP makes it difficult to find the specific thing the CRT is based on. Can somebody post the specific new argument from the new material that is being presented and not the other walls of text around it.

 

[AKUTO123]

There are too many issues and almost no mod inputs. Should we say ant a mod tagging?

 

[AKUTO123]

Long OP makes it difficult to find the specific thing the CRT is based on. Can somebody post the specific new argument from the new material that is being presented and not the other walls of text around it.

The success proved not to be with Almigthy except that there are no different arguments other than scaling the same success.

 

[Cloozuma]

you realize that I am a massive ****** to rage right? the comment about salty fanboys was quite much on my end I must admit (even if I do actually feel that way)

No offense but the last time you start being a ****** you got a stroke :>

 

[Damage3245]

There are too many issues and almost no mod inputs. Should we say ant a mod tagging?

I've said that I'll be post a counter to the OP today.

 

[AKUTO123]

I am not saying just for you, because other CRTs did not have enough staff, people were burdened with a lot. so I want it to be evaluated by as many staff as possible just

 

[Cyberblader90]

Long OP makes it difficult to find the specific thing the CRT is based on. Can somebody post the specific new argument from the new material that is being presented and not the other walls of text around it.

Refer to the section regarding context from novels

 

[Heavens_Feel]

I think the Planet level stuff should go. it just doesn't fit the scope anymore now that we know the garganta surrounding the universe was created by the Prime Soul King, and Yhwach has been stated to be matching/above PSK, and was going to undo all his creation.

and this quote from the novel:
“How rude of me. However, the truth is that I am simply showing my gratitude toward Ichigo Kurosaki. Had he not defeated Yhwach, the boundaries between the three worlds would have disappeared and we would have returned to a universe in which there would be no cycling of konpaku, wouldn’t we? Such an action would have reduced the Soul Society’s history to naught. I would like to make this a universe where he receives commendation befitting his achievement of preventing that occurrence.”

clearly shows the scale and magnitude of what was happening. universe is explictly mentioned here. backing up what we already knew about the garganta prior.

This is pretty much infallible at this point.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Upgrading bulma's durability to Low 2-C, thanks for the tip.

I want nothing to do with this thread and will not respond to any of the OPs stuff, but I’m here to correct you on your view of how Low 2-Cs treated here.

He’s correct as to how Low 2-C works. It’s infinite, no matter how much power in this tier is divided up, it’s still going to remain low 2-C. And Bulma is a terrible false equivalence against this, the downgrade thread last time already addressed this. You should read it again.

That’s all from me. I don’t care about the topic, but people do need to be aware of how Low 2-C actually works if it’s going to be argued here.

 

[Reio35]

Yhwach becoming low 2c after absorbing Ichigo and sternritters is crazier than ichigo jumping to low 2c after zenkai boost. Yhwach himself stated he was going destroy the realms before even absorbing ichigio and people had already said he was going to destroy the garganta

 

[Cyberblader90]

Yhwach becoming low 2c after absorbing Ichigo and sternritters is crazier than ichigo jumping to low 2c after zenkai boost. Yhwach himself stated he was going destroy the realms before even absorbing ichigio and people had already said he was going to destroy the garganta

I do recall a statement for this but wasn't able to find it
Do you have this on you

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach becoming low 2c after absorbing Ichigo and sternritters is crazier than ichigo jumping to low 2c after zenkai boost. Yhwach himself stated he was going destroy the realms before even absorbing ichigio and people had already said he was going to destroy the garganta

I'm writing a full breakdown of the OP, but I want to point out that you're mistaken here.

Nobody has said that Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta personally.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I'm writing a full breakdown of the OP, but I want to point out that you're mistaken here.

Nobody has said that Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta personally.

Uhh, that pretty much the premise of the op

 

[Reio35]

I do recall a statement for this but wasn't able to find it
Do you have this on you

Yhwach says he's going to end the realms after killing ichigo