Yakuza General Discussion Thread

[HammerStrikes219]

Sujimon is kind of a canon part of the world, you have to interact with the Sujimon battle minigame in 8, there’s an entire section devoted to Sujimon studies with the exact same designs and attacks Ichiban sees in game, they appear as their battle designs on Dondoko. Kiryu winning doesn’t really affect that.

It’s not just game mechanics when Ichiban gets a reward for something that was claimed to be imaginary, in a cutscene in that big swell DLC.

Again, Sujimon made a first official appearance in Yakuza 7 and this doesn’t really apply to his Game Imagination. Hell, one can completely argue Sujimon was never really tied to Ichiban’s Imagination given the substory nature. Also I don’t think it was a mandatory thing even for Yakuza 8 as this isn’t even tied to the main story, but more so on substory so weak argument there.

It’s not just game mechanics when Ichiban gets a reward for something that was claimed to be imaginary, in a cutscene in that big swell DLC.

I gonna been fair about this as this doesn’t sound like it is tied to Ichiban’s Gamer Imagination and sounds like what was thought to been false later turns out to been real situations thus not really giving much to Ichiban’s
gamer imagination there.

 

[JJSliderman]

Again, Sujimon only made an official appearance in Yakuza 7 and this doesn’t really apply to his Game Imagination. Hell, one can completely argue Sujimon was never really tied to Ichiban’s Imagination given the substory nature. Also I don’t think it was a mandatory thing even for Yakuza 8 as this isn’t even tied to the main story, but more so on substory so weak argument there,

Only made an official appearance in 7

They have an even MORE prominent role in 8, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s absolutely tied to Ichiban’s view of the world, they say in 8 that the enemies change appearance in accordance with Ichiban (and later Kiryu’s) hero’s vision. And it’s mandatory in 8, I’ve checked. The argument about it being in a substory is also weird because substories being canon is a constant thing in the series. Kiryu gets almost pissed on by Haruto in 6, and he knows to dodge it and says “not again” cuz he’s referencing getting peed on by the baby in the Y4 substory. There’s other examples, I’ve got a doc with a few of them.

I gonna been fair about this as this doesn’t sound like it is tied to Ichiban’s Gamer Imagination and sounds like what was thought to been false later turns out to been real situations thus not really giving much to Ichiban’s i
gamer imagination there,

Everyone around Ichiban claims that the events were imaginary, including the game master who ran the dungeon. Plus they fight a squid in the final dungeon so, I doubt they’d just brush it off as fake unless it was something Ichiban imagined that came true and they couldn’t see it as he did.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

They have an even MORE prominent role in 8, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s absolutely tied to Ichiban’s view of the world, they say in 8 that the enemies change appearance in accordance with Ichiban (and later Kiryu’s) hero’s vision. And it’s mandatory in 8, I’ve checked. The argument about it being in a substory is also weird because substories being canon is a constant thing in the series. Kiryu gets almost pissed on by Haruto in 6, and he knows to dodge it and says “not again” cuz he’s referencing getting peed on by the baby in the Y4 substory. There’s other examples, I’ve got a doc with a few of them.

I am aware of that, but Sujimon ain’t exactly important to main story relevance so it is odd you still going for the “Subjective Reality” angle when it is not relevant to the main story progression so don’t see the point of this.

Everyone around Ichiban claims that the events were imaginary, including the game master who ran the dungeon. Plus they fight a squid in the final dungeon so, I doubt they’d just brush it off as fake unless it was something Ichiban imagined that came true and they couldn’t see it as he did

Because it is well known Ichiban’s gamer imagination canonically run wild.

However, the giant squid is probably something to note off.





Upon checking the DLC’s dialogue in English, that isn’t what was say by Ichiban’s gang members.



Here at 0:46, Joon says “Either way, there’s no denying what we’re looking at.” So they never actually claimed it was imaginary it seems

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also Yappi explained what the Big Swell actually is at 0:34 upon further investigation as well

 

[JJSliderman]

I’ll prolly just make a thread about it sometime

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I’ll prolly just make a thread about it sometime

For me, it is just that the Big Swell DLC confirmed that the Big Swell is a vortex that allows any supernatural phenomenon to appear so it is not even tied to Ichiban’s Gamer Imagination plus you have to go to the location physically in order to confront these supernatural entities spawned by the Dungeon.



I think you can drop the Sujimon point and maybe do “Subjective Reality via Big Swell” as this is the strongest evidence for a place that allows Subjective Reality being a thing.

 

[JJSliderman]

I disagree, I feel like the point of Sujimon not being a big part of the main story is sort of weak when it’s so ingrained into a lot of the content in the game, and they are still a mandatory part of the story regardless.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I disagree, I feel like the point of Sujimon not being a big part of the main story is sort of weak when it’s so ingrained into a lot of the content in the game, and they are still a mandatory part of the story regardless.

We still have other mini games like Darts, Baseball, Karaoke, and so on.



Hell, we got the Donodoko Island minigame here.



As such, I don’t really believe the claim that Sujimon being a “important part” of the main story to say the least.

 

[JJSliderman]

That’s not what I said, I said they were a mandatory part of the story and are in a lot of the game’s content. Which is true, they’re all over Hawaii, on Dondoko Island, and have their own battle league with a dedicated story arc in the same vein as the cabaret czar or Kiryu clan stuff.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

That’s not what I said, I said they were a mandatory part of the story and are in a lot of the game’s content. Which is true, they’re all over Hawaii, on Dondoko Island, and have their own battle league with a dedicated story arc in the same vein as the cabaret czar or Kiryu clan stuff.

Again, don’t get the subjective reality angle for Ichiban when Sujimon appears independently of Ichiban’s gamer imagination once we met the professor, but it is not really important for the main story and is treated as side content in general. Hell, all mini games are part of that side content to say the least

 

[JJSliderman]

It’s important because the Sujimon mostly appear in their battle designs in 8, which is the part that everyone considered as fake and imaginary. And these battle designs are reflected in in-universe license examinations at vocational school, showing they’re not just things Ichiban is faking.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It’s important because the Sujimon mostly appear in their battle designs in 8, which is the part that everyone considered as fake and imaginary. And these battle designs are reflected in in-universe license examinations at vocational school, showing they’re not just things Ichiban is faking.

I don’t think any of Ichiban’s gang members , in-universe, ever claim they were Fakes in the case of Sujimons though.

Hell, I brought up the substory in question.




They met a “crazy” as said by Nanabi, but he never say they were fake

 

[JJSliderman]

The battle designs, the enemies transforming, that was considered fake by Ichiban’s friends. And those transformations and their attacks are just the Sujimon designs that appear throughout 8, including in official license exams

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The battle designs, the enemies transforming, that was considered fake by Ichiban’s friends

Do you remember the specific statements made by them for this? That much will been appreciated as you need sources for this part.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Anyway, the evidence for Ichiban’s “subjective reality” still is flimsy evidence as the best next thing outside of Sujimon will probably been the Big Swell as that one is more of a stronger evidence than the Sujimon part tbh

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Ichiban's imagination is contagious I'm pretty sure

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Ichiban's imagination is contagious I'm pretty sure

Yeah, I remember that part as brought up by one of Ichiban’s gang member in 7, but it will take awhile to remember when that was stated for that matter

 

[JJSliderman]

Do you remember the specific statements made by them for this? That much will been appreciated as you need sources for this part.

These two mainly

 

[HammerStrikes219]

These two mainly

Yeah, those two.

Hmmm, it is true though the the transformation doesn’t actually happen, but appears in Ichiban’s head as it is always part of his gamer imagination.


That and the exam you refer to doesn’t actually brought up the enemy’s transformation.


Hell, we didn’t see the enemy transform in the Sujimon’s substory of 7 which implies that is their actual natural state, not a legit transformation tbf.


I played 7 myself and don’t recall Sujimon canonically “transforming” as gameplay wise, we see the enemies as what they actually are.


The ones you likely thinking of is probably the cloaked figures there,

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Ichiban's imagination is contagious I'm pretty sure

Yeah, now JJslider brought up Kiryu, it shows Ichiban’s gamer imagination infecting Kiryu which is something to note

 

[JJSliderman]

That and the exam you refer to doesn’t actually brought up the enemy’s transformation.

The exam shows the Sujimon in their transformed state, and even mentions their attacks which appear in-game (like Nicotine Smog or how the bodybuilder enemies use a specific move to amp their stats)

Hell, we didn’t see the enemy transform in the Sujimon’s substory of 7 which implies that is their actual natural state, not a legit transformation tbf.

If that’s their natural state, it doesn’t really make sense considering no one else can really see them in that state, unless Ichiban’s hero’s vision allows him to see them in their natural state, which also goes to demonstrate he’s not hallucinating.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The exam shows the Sujimon in their transformed state, and even mentions their attacks which appear in-game (like Nicotine Smog or how the bodybuilder enemies use a specific move to amp their stats)

If that’s their natural state, it doesn’t really make sense considering no one else can really see them in that state, unless Ichiban’s hero’s vision allows him to see them in their natural state, which also goes to demonstrate he’s not hallucinating.

Again, look to the video I posted for the Sujimon’s substory here.

I don’t think any of Ichiban’s gang members , in-universe, ever claim they were Fakes in the case of Sujimons though.

Hell, I brought up the substory in question.




They met a “crazy” as said by Nanabi, but he never say they were fake

They met this exact Sujimon named Degenerate as he look precisely what was shown in the gameplay against Degenerate.

Even Nanabi was looking at the Degenerate out in the open street before they battle the Degenerate which make this a bit questionable imo.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, that’s only some of the Sujimon, others very clearly transform into different forms during battle, like how the battle from 7 I posted has one of the enemies transform into a big heavy dude, or how the ones in the 8 video turn into green hoodie guys despite none of them having such attire before the battle began.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, that’s only some of the Sujimon, others very clearly transform into different forms during battle, like how the battle from 7 I posted has one of the enemies transform into a big heavy dude, or how the ones in the 8 video turn into green hoodie guys despite none of them having such attire before the battle began.

Hmmm, the other explanation for “transformations” will been ridiculous, but funny ie. “They change clothings on the fly and so on” which tbf, given how wacky the Yakuza series are, in general, isn’t out of the question.

Also, that doesn’t discount the cutscenes in Yakuza 7 and 8 mainly.

 

[JJSliderman]

Some of them literally grow a foot in height and gain 50 pounds, I don’t think a clothing change could solve that.

But I can talk more about it if I ever make a thread for it

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Some of them literally grow a foot in height and gain 50 pounds, I don’t think a clothing change could solve that.

But I can talk more about it if I ever make a thread for it

Eh, it is tied to gameplay mechanics at the end of the day as it still subjective to the game mechanics when battling Sujimon.

Again, don’t actually see this as “subjective reality”.

However

else can really see them in that state, unless Ichiban’s hero’s vision allows him to see them in their natural state, which also goes to demonstrate he’s not hallucinating

Enhanced Senses

Enhanced senses are when a user has physical senses such as sight, smell, hearing, and touch far above what is normal for humans. Compared to humans, many other animals such as dogs (smell), bats (hearing), and birds (sight) would have super senses. There are more than five senses available to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This seems to fall under Enhanced Senses tbh since this is likely one of those cases

 

[JJSliderman]

If it’s enhanced senses, that kinda goes against the idea that it’s hallucinatory, since it implies that all of this is real and only Ichiban and Kiryu can see it.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

If it’s enhanced senses, that kinda goes against the idea that it’s hallucinatory, since it implies that all of this is real and only Ichiban and Kiryu can see it.

Considering the substory for Sujimon being a thing including Substory for 8, I don’t see how this will discount it as it is possible to use Enhanced Sense to detect hallucinations IIRC.

Beside, it ain’t really subjective reality given how it is tied to the gamer imagination and all.

 

[JJSliderman]

Subjective reality is by definition tied to imagination, but okay.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Subjective reality is by definition tied to imagination, but okay.

It is more than that, you are supposed to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality which ain’t exactly the best for Ichiban’s specific case.


Hence I consider the evidence to being quite shaky even then as random enemy encounters and other things still has ties to game mechanics overall.


Regardless of that, we still can’t discount what was shown in the main story such as Ichiban vs Kiryu from 7 and other instances as this is up for debate.

Anyway, aside from that, favorite moment from Yakuza 7?

 

[JJSliderman]

The coin locker scene, definitely.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, I remember the Coin Locker as the VA for Ichiban kill it for 7’s ending.

Shame we couldn’t get Ryo being somewhat redeemed (We can’t exactly forgive him for what he has done behind the scene as he has to earned it), but it is what it is.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, I remember the Coin Locker as the VA for Ichiban kill it for 7’s ending.

Yeah, everyone’s pointed it out, but bringing back Nishiki’s actor was pretty genius.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, I am aware of that. My brain kinda has a tendency to misremembering or forget things, but that ain’t exclusive to me tbf.