Fear and Famine (Fear and Hunger Discussion Thread)

[Abscoolguy]

Also shouldn't Rher at least be 5-C just due to being the actual moon hahah

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Also shouldn't Rher at least be 5-C just due to being the actual moon hahah

His size was calced at 8-A

 

[SheevShezarrine]

His size was calced at 8-A

Are we certain that that was the actual moon of the Funger Earth, as opposed to just being portion or avatar/tangible projection? Insofar as I understand, Funger Earth is effectively a 1:1 Earth with alternate but still quite similar chronology. Also his size was classed as being Class M in weight, it's his movement that yielded 8-A KE

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Rher's Trace isn't the actual moon, it's just an avatar. What was calced was his Trace, which is much smaller than an actual moon

Also his size was classed as being Class M in weight, it's his movement that yielded 8-A KE

That's what I meant

 

[Abscoolguy]

So could the true form at least reach 5-C? I've heard way higher stuff for the old gods true forms but ofc that's all not confirmed yet but I mean if the real form is just the moon then like

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Doing some more deep dives. I think I can confidently lay down my scaling proposition. I'll get to making profiles soon

Old gods: Low 2-C

• Lady of Moon calls them; “The ones... The creators and destroyers of this world..”

Ascended gods: Unknown, likely Low 2-C

• Seemingly comparable to the Olds
• Not positive though. So unknown just to be more accurate

Traces: 8-A

• Rher feat
• I don't think anyone scales to them. Gro-Goroth OHKOs Nash'rah and all the other instances of them being fought are usually just them humoring you.
• I could possibly be talked into giving a "possibly 8-A" rating to the News and playable cast, but I don't really see it tbh

New gods: At least 8-C

• Seemingly canonically beaten by the playable cast
• Don't seem comparable to Traces

Bottom Tiers: 8-C

• Explosive vial feat can be survived by even the weakest enemies in the game

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Doing some more deep dives. I think I can confidently lay down my scaling proposition. I'll get to making profiles soon

Old gods: Low 2-C

• Lady of Moon calls them; “The ones... The creators and destroyers of this world..”

Ascended gods: Unknown, likely Low 2-C

• Seemingly comparable to the Olds
• Not positive though. So unknown just to be more accurate

Traces: 8-A

• Rher feat
• I don't think anyone scales to them. Gro-Goroth OHKOs Nash'rah and all the other instances of them being fought are usually just them humoring you.
• I could possibly be talked into giving a "possibly 8-A" rating to the News and playable cast, but I don't really see it tbh

New gods: At least 8-C

• Seemingly canonically beaten by the playable cast
• Don't seem comparable to Traces

Bottom Tiers: 8-C

• Explosive vial feat can be survived by even the weakest enemies in the game

In regards to the 8-As, I think given how ultra-casual the 8-Afeat was done (literally just Rher moving with no urgency or exertion whatsoever), I'd say that even the most casual attacks of the Traces upscale from that, and those are survivable (albeit barely) by the playable cast, these playable cast members also being damaged quite heavily by each other and the New Gods. All told, I'd say playable and New Gods should be a definite "at least 8-C, likely 8-A" scaling to Rher pretty much just casually strolling towards them and then popping them in the nose with a lazy jab. On the flip side of the coin, Traces should upscale vastly from 8-A and be "Unknown. At least 8-A, likely far higher"

Also, there should be an "at least 8-C" mid tier between early game and late game, given the presence of bosses such as Crow Mauler and Salmonsnake that are way stronger than the early game and ring in the back half. There's also precedent for them scaling nearly incomparably above the early game given that Crow Mauler is only annoyed by arrows and bear traps, which up until that point have made dealing with enemies much easier, injuring (and occasionally OHKO'ing) and maiming them, respectively, and Salmonsnake is such a brick s**thouse down to the core of its being that its soul used as an accessory basically turns on easy mode

 

[SheevShezarrine]

So could the true form at least reach 5-C? I've heard way higher stuff for the old gods true forms but ofc that's all not confirmed yet but I mean if the real form is just the moon then like

The True Form of Rher departed the world centuries ago, so even a full-sized moon would simply be his Traces

 

[Tyranno223]

In regards to the 8-As, I think given how ultra-casual the 8-Afeat was done (literally just Rher moving with no urgency or exertion whatsoever), I'd say that even the most casual attacks of the Traces upscale from that, and those are survivable (albeit barely) by the playable cast, these playable cast members also being damaged quite heavily by each other and the New Gods.

Yeah, you can even end up fighting Sylvian's traces before the Greater Blight and certain endings require you to face her traces before the Yellow King.

That aside, Kaiser is a serious threat prior to facing Logic and new gods in general are treated as extreme threats like you said.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

In regards to the 8-As, I think given how ultra-casual the 8-Afeat was done (literally just Rher moving with no urgency or exertion whatsoever), I'd say that even the most casual attacks of the Traces upscale from that

You do have a point. Rher's 8-A feat was done extremely casually, and that could be comparable to an endgame player character, who can can also survive casual attacks from Rher. This also somewhat lines up with Gro-goroth's trace oneshotting Nash'rah and Gro-goroth's other trace (Darkness) oneshotting the player characters. One could say that a serious trace is massively above 8-A, and a casual trace is 8-A

I'd say playable and New Gods should be a definite "at least 8-C, likely 8-A" scaling to Rher pretty much just casually strolling towards them

I don't think it should be "likely", but a "possibly" works. For all we know, Rher is holding back MORE in order to not OHKO the finalist, same with the other traces.

I also want to note that ONLY endgame player characters and new gods should get the "possibly 8-A" bit. I don't think even Crow Mauler or Salmonsnake are very comparable

On the flip side of the coin, Traces should upscale vastly from 8-A and be "Unknown. At least 8-A, likely far higher"

I don't think the "Unknown" would be needed. "At least 8-A, likely far higher" sounds more appropriate.

Also, there should be an "at least 8-C" mid tier between early game and late game, given the presence of bosses such as Crow Mauler and Salmonsnake that are way stronger than the early game and ring in the back half. There's also precedent for them scaling nearly incomparably above the early game given that Crow Mauler is only annoyed by arrows and bear traps, which up until that point have made dealing with enemies much easier, injuring (and occasionally OHKO'ing) and maiming them, respectively, and Salmonsnake is such a brick s**thouse down to the core of its being that its soul used as an accessory basically turns on easy mode

I could get behind an "At least 8-C" rating for bosses, yeah. They're far above the enemies that can survive the explosive vial

So, I guess an updated table would be...

Old gods	Low 2-C
Traces	At least 8-A, likely far higher
New gods	At least 8-C, possibly 8-A
Playable cast	8-C | At least 8-C, possibly 8-A
Bosses	At least 8-C
Enemies	8-C

 

[SheevShezarrine]

You do have a point. Rher's 8-A feat was done extremely casually, and that could be comparable to an endgame player character, who can can also survive casual attacks from Rher. This also somewhat lines up with Gro-goroth's trace oneshotting Nash'rah and Gro-goroth's other trace (Darkness) oneshotting the player characters. One could say that a serious trace is massively above 8-A, and a casual trace is 8-A


I don't think it should be "likely", but a "possibly" works. For all we know, Rher is holding back MORE in order to not OHKO the finalist, same with the other traces.

I also want to note that ONLY endgame player characters and new gods should get the "possibly 8-A" bit. I don't think even Crow Mauler or Salmonsnake are very comparable


I don't think the "Unknown" would be needed. "At least 8-A, likely far higher" sounds more appropriate.


I could get behind an "At least 8-C" rating for bosses, yeah. They're far above the enemies that can survive the explosive vial

So, I guess an updated table would be...

Old gods	Low 2-C
Traces	At least 8-A, likely far higher
New gods	At least 8-C, possibly 8-A
Playable cast	8-C | At least 8-C, possibly 8-A
Bosses	At least 8-C
Enemies	8-C

Mauler and Salmonsnake won't be getting 8-A, no. Two-headed Mauler maybe, maybe gets it, but imo Mauler even with two heads is a comparative cake walk by the time the party is set to take on the Gauntlet.

I'm okay with a "possibly", though I think 8-A being essentially a casual stroll for Traces sets 8-A as such an abysmally low floor for what they can do that even when they hold back they'd clear it, same as how even the laziest punch you could throw with any amount of intent to harm would most likely hurt someone a decent bit more than just bumping into them when trying to scoot past them in a grocery store aisle

As for Traces ratings, I'd say they're so astronomically above 8-A when they actually try that indexing their true power is impossible with what we currently know of them; an "8-A, likely far higher" really just doesn't do them justice. Hence, admitting in tiering that their true power is Unknown is best imo

 

[ShockingPsychic]

As for Traces ratings, I'd say they're so astronomically above 8-A when they actually try that indexing their true power is impossible with what we currently know of them; an "8-A, likely far higher" really just doesn't do them justice. Hence, admitting in tiering that their true power is Unknown is best imo

Using an "Unknown" tier implies that we don't know enough to give a tier, but we do at the very least have a lowball using a feat one of the traces performs. Their tier shouldn't be "Unknown" because we do know for a fact that they are at least 8-A

The "far higher" already covers the possibility that they could be, well, far higher, so an Unknown tier seems a bit redundant. From what I've seen, the Unknown tier is used when there is a lack of feats period, which is not a problem here

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Sidenote, this still needs to be looked at by the calc group

I also wonder what Meteor Swarm would yield

 

[Stillwinston]

Fr I'm hyped for when the protags get profiles, got some match ideas for Levi, Marina and Ragnvaldr atm

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Using an "Unknown" tier implies that we don't know enough to give a tier, but we do at the very least have a lowball using a feat one of the traces performs. Their tier shouldn't be "Unknown" because we do know for a fact that they are at least 8-A

The "far higher" already covers the possibility that they could be, well, far higher, so an Unknown tier seems a bit redundant. From what I've seen, the Unknown tier is used when there is a lack of feats period, which is not a problem here

I meeeeeeean we kinda don't, they're so immeasurably above even what they display in-game that getting an accurate tiering off that alone just isn't really possible.

And this is semantics, but the far higher doesn't cover the possibility of them being far above 8-A, it accounts for the fact that they are far above that. As for usage of the Unknown Tier, I've also seen it used where there were extant but scarce feats, and in cases where the upper limit of a character's power is unclear. In the latter case, it's usually paired with a known lower bound and/or a theoretical upper limit.

 

[Abscoolguy]

Fr I'm hyped for when the protags get profiles, got some match ideas for Levi, Marina and Ragnvaldr atm

Marcoh pulling up with just pure hands

 

[Stillwinston]

Man's a joestar and I can't be convinced otherwise lmao

 

[Abscoolguy]

I think in Miro's video drawing him he says he's a JoJo reference

 

[Abscoolguy]

Does the GOFAH scale to the Old Gods?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Ascended Gods do appear to be as powerful as Old Gods, so I'd say so.

 

[Kenny Mccormick 0v0]

Low 1-C for old gods got rejected?

Fear and Hunger Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I do not buy the Low 1-C arguments and that user is no longer active on the site

 

[Stillwinston]

For real one of the things I love with fear and hunger is that characters can just lose their legs and just be more offended than anything lol. Are we sure this is from a horror game or from your average amazon workplace?