Xenoblade Revision Part 1: Tier Revisions and Minor Hax Adjustments

[XDragnoir]

Question, is Monado III =, > or < the Passage of Fate?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Monado III is > Zanza with Both Monados who controls the Passage of Fate. In which Shulk destroys the Passage of Fate. And Alvis is yet superior to Shulk given he's the one empowering the combined might of the three Monados. Though it can be debated Shulk has Alvis powers post Zanza's defeat, but Shulk pretty much gives up all that power in the ending.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

Monado III would be greater than the Passage of Fate because Alvis, the True Monado itself, created it.

 

[Ionliosite]

I still insist that 6-D based on the evidence is very iffy, so I agree with Ogbu since he explained far better than me.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I agree with Ogbu

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I agree with the upgrades, best girl will solo my favorite verse.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I agree with the changes though neutral on the High 8-C Shulk thing. I might comment back on that part later.

 

[BeeDub98]

I'd like to apologize for my absence, there is some important stuff that I am dealing with.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's fine, I can understand that quite well.

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

I think High 8-C Shulk should instead have a weakness stating that the Monado 1 can't hurt sentient/sapient entities like Homs, Nopon, and High Entia (I can't remember if Giants are also affected or not, seeing as there really aren't any in the game before getting the Monado II) since the Monado 1 can hurt mechanical, sentient/sapient mechanical, and non-sentient/sapient beings seeing as it can hurt Mechon, monsters of Bionis, and presumably the Machina.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP was edited that it simply cannot hurt "Children of the Bionis; Nopon, High Entia, and Homs". It's also been shown to hurt monsters that are otherwise biological. So it's good now.

 

[BeeDub98]

Aside from the Tier Adjustments and range that are still being debated, since everything else was agreed on may I add those?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Aeyu hasn't seem to commented on the specific tiers; though I know she isn't active here, she's been on Discord. But I can tag more staff. @Dragonmasterxyz @AKM sama @Elizhaa. I believe Ultima is extremely tired and possibly so is DontTalkDT.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

It's a shame the 7D stuff got rejected but I feel like Xenosaga and Xenogears need to be established on this wiki tbh.

Overall I agree with what was accepted, I'm really feeling these upgrades!

 

[BeeDub98]

It's a shame the 7D stuff got rejected but I feel like Xenosaga and Xenogears need to be established on this wiki tbh.

Overall I agree with what was accepted, I'm really feeling these upgrades!

It will, but that's coming much later though. Just because 7-D wasn't accepted now doesn't mean something can't come along and help Alvis' case. All that's left is the matter of Alvis' nature of being 6-D or not

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I agree with upgrades.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, 7-D and above seems to be a no.
6-D and the other changes seem fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think 7-D need more solid evidence, to be valid. I am neutral on 6-D. 5-D tiering and the other changes look dine

 

[BeeDub98]

I think 7-D need more solid evidence, to be valid. I am neutral on 6-D. 5-D tiering and the other changes look dine

We agreed to put a pin in 7-D for now. Since the other changes non ap related were universally accepted, would it be ok to add those?

 

[Elizhaa]

Yes.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Alright, Xenoblade 2 revision is the next one

 

[BeeDub98]

Part 2 will mostly be dedicated to Xenoblade 2 yes. Their profiles are missing alot of stuff, although there is some more Xenoblade 1 stuff that also needs to be taken care of too in part 2 that we can't discuss here.

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

If I'm understanding correctly, Shulk, Meyneth, and Zanza all become 5-D while Alvis becomes 6-D. Is that correct?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

6-D got rejected

 

[BeeDub98]

6-D got rejected

No, 7-D got rejected. 6-D It's still being argued. There's a split between people

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

No, 7-D got rejected. 6-D It's still being argued. There's a split between people

Oh mb then lol

 

[XDragnoir]

Will Monado III still have all of Alvis' power after the latter is upgraded to 6D?

 

[BeeDub98]

Perhaps, but that depends on 6-D Alvis getting accepted in the first place. There are more people who do agree with it it then not, but I don't want to automatically assume anything.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It will have a good list of Alvis powers, but not sure about all of them. But Alvis should pretty much have every other power.

 

[Shift_Ctrl_Alt_Delete]

Is there anything left to be done here?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I think that it? The only thing left are adding the CRT to the pages

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was still hoping someone like Ultima Reality would comment on the thread or at least Aeyu mentioning in the group the proposals looks good, but I agree Low 1-C stuff looks solid. But the hax abilities were already updated. And I also agree the Architect should have his own profile separate from Zanza.

 

[BeeDub98]

Then...I guess I'll go ahead and make the updates to Shulk, Zanza and Alvis' profiles.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I am probably slightly late to this, but, oh well:

Alvis is also the being responsible for the creation and utilization of something called "The Passage of Fate", what this is an construct that dictates the events of all worlds as it's overarching Concept of Fate. Gods of the Multiverse are able to utilize the Passage of Fate to their advantage, as seen when after acquiring Meyneth's Monado, becomes one with it, and forms a new realm dubbed "Memory Space" a land based on Zanza's Memories of original universe before the Space-Time Transition, however it separated from the conventional Multiverse in the sense of it's existence is stated to be beyond the boundaries of Space-Time itself. Because Xenoblade's Energy Source known as "Ether" is the building block for all Existence, including Space & Time, which proves that the Multiverse is a 4-D Construct, The Passage of Fate in turn would be considered 5-D. Which both Zanza and Eventually Shulk would take control over

This seems like it's referring to a pocket dimension being formed apart from the conventional multiverse, and thus, outside of its space and time. It'd be Low 1-C if the scan actually had any indication of superiority over the spacetime continuum, which it doesn't; the fact that the wording is "When the divine will floats beyond space and time..." pretty clearly indicates that it's just talking about something existing detached from normal spacetime, wihout necessarily transcending it completely.

As for the rest of the post, much of the supposed evidence seems to boil down to "Character who has Cosmic Awareness on a multiversal scale was unaware that X realm existed," which is not even remotely enough evidence for you to reasonably conclude that said realms actually transcend one another in an hierarchical manner, and it can just as easily mean that they exist outside of the sphere of influence encompassed by said Cosmic Awareness. Needless to say, being external to something does not indicate you exist infinitely above it.

 

[BeeDub98]

@ Ultima Reality Not exactly, what it refers to is that the Passage of Fate by itself already exists beyond the multiverse. It's just that Zanza with use of his own and Meyneth's Monado was able to take control over the Passage of Fate and then create said reality, there were also scans that were posted much earlier in this discussion detailing that Passage of Fate dictates everything in the course of not just Xenoblade 1's Universe, but 2's as well.

I also showed in Alvis' character Bio that he is the one responsible for the Passage of Fate's creation in the first place, while being unaffected by it's destruction where as Shulk due to giving up Monado III was through losing the power of visions. Zanza also stated that just with his own single Monado he had created entire universes "many times before", world's that are stated to be Infinite in size.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Not exactly, what it refers to is that the Passage of Fate by itself already exists beyond the multiverse.

And how does the Passage of Fate's power allowing for the creation of a pocket dimension outside of spacetime indicate that, exactly? That seems like a feat of range, at best.

 

[BeeDub98]

And how does the Passage of Fate's power allowing for the creation of a pocket dimension outside of spacetime indicate that, exactly? That seems like a feat of range, at best.

It doesn't say "Outside" of Space-Time, it's specifically states "Beyond" it, those two are very different things. Combine that with the Architect stating that all of the number of Universes Co-Exist "Side by Side". Those are two very different things. Plus as posted before, the Passage of Fate dictates and affects those Universes that are stated to be Infinite in size.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

First off it doesn't say "Outside" of Space-Time, it's specifically states "Beyond" it, those two are very different things.

They're not. "Outside" and "beyond" are effectively synonyms and can be used interchangeably depending on the context of a phrase: You can probably look up any common use of the latter to see that it doesn't really mean "Infinitely above" by default, too.

Combine that with the Architect stating that all of the number of Universes Co-Exist "Side by Side" with one another would imply that the Passage of Fate is 5-D

I don't see how. Can you elaborate on that?

Plus as posted before, the Passage of Fate dictates and affects those Universes.

Which is a Tier 2 feat on its own.

 

[Thatsafloridathing]

They're not. "Outside" and "beyond" are effectively synonyms and can be used interchangeably depending on the context of a phrase: You can probably look up any common use of the latter to see that it doesn't really mean "Infinitely above" by default, too.

That doesn’t mean beyond can’t also be used synonymously with above as well depending on context. If you want to bring up how the word is used, there’s probably just as many sentences where beyond could be used interchangeably with above.

I don't see how. Can you elaborate on that?

He means that every universe exists on the same level, meaning that it’s unlikely for something like the Passage of Fate, stated to be beyond space and time, to exist on that same level because these universes already inhabit the 4th dimension. The Passage of Fate would have to possess different space-time continuum in order for it to still be 4-D.

 

[BeeDub98]

The Conduit was responsible for a Space-Time transition that split a Low 2-C universe into an Infinite Number of Universes. Through the process of something called "Phenomenon Shift" it manipulates Infinite Possibilities of those with the most desired outcome and those with probabilities as low as 0% that are statistically impossible, those can be overwritten through creating new realities. The Architect states that states all of those Endless Universes Co-Exist side by side meaning next to each other. All of those Universes as shown before are stated to be Infinite in size, and each one of those universes are individual timelines. As shown before Zanza with one single Monado created worlds that are Infinite in scope many times before. The Passage of Fate existing beyond the Space-Time of each and every Infinite Phenomenon, and directly affecting each and every single one of them from beyond their 4-D axis is on a 5-D spectrum. Zanza with his own and now Meyneth's Monado had taken complete control over it, and formed his own reality which should be Infinite in scope should apply to Memory Space as well considering he utilizes more of the same power to do so, and Shulk will eventually override his control over it and take it for himself.

Edit: There is also this quote made by Alvis that people live and die at the Mercy of Zanza as the will of The Passage of Fate